Fender CS prices

andrewaward

Ah good point, that's even stranger. Seems to have been built up with just the neck , bride and trem 

gavin_axecaster

My guess would be alignment issue so the trem/studs/neck pocket or something critical is off kilter. if they are relics and made it to paint/dry build I can't imagine what else it could be that wouldn't be fixable.

Arjailer

Hang on ... we have how many threads on here bemoaning Gibson QC and any minor defects on new guitars ... and now you want them to "fix" what are presumably defective bodies ...  

I'm gonna suggest that not accepting defects is exactly how they keep the quality up, and that if they started "fixing" defective builds then those "Gibson QC" threads would quickly become "Fender QC" threads.

andrewaward

^^ That would explain it

57Deluxe

Sassafras said:

I only buy the most expensive guitars available. That way I know I've got something special that few prols can afford.

and makes them a target for thieves at a pub gig...

melod

The biggest problem, for me, is that people (like me) are sucked into consuming guitars the same way they consume sports shoes or whatever. Surely, we don't need that many guitars.

But even if the above is accepted (people collect all sorts of things) there is this addiction about getting "the bargain", half price or whatever from the original price. Again, I can be blamed for that as well but it is a bit silly and it is more of an addiction and semi-predatory consumerism that involves a rather sadistic satisfaction from knowing that someone got a guitar for 4K and you got it off his hands for 1500.

I think that many adults with modest incomes, like me, could afford a nice new guitar every few years, if that is really what pleases them accepting that a loss of value is part of the game....and we are not talking about life-changing sums here. Not changing a stupid phone every year would get you a few guitars for sure. Have you wondered how much that expensive couch is worth in the second hand market?

It's all about priorities... 

And yes, Fender CS prices are silly... I have one so I should know!

gavin_axecaster

Arjailer said:

Hang on ... we have how many threads on here bemoaning Gibson QC and any minor defects on new guitars ... and now you want them to "fix" what are presumably defective bodies ...  

I'm gonna suggest that not accepting defects is exactly how they keep the quality up, and that if they started "fixing" defective builds then those "Gibson QC" threads would quickly become "Fender QC" threads.

Paint/finish issues (blush, fisheye, bad adhesion etc) can be fixed without compromising the quality of the final product.

Arjailer

gavin_axecaster said:

Arjailer said:

Hang on ... we have how many threads on here bemoaning Gibson QC and any minor defects on new guitars ... and now you want them to "fix" what are presumably defective bodies ...  

I'm gonna suggest that not accepting defects is exactly how they keep the quality up, and that if they started "fixing" defective builds then those "Gibson QC" threads would quickly become "Fender QC" threads.

Paint/finish issues (blush, fisheye, bad adhesion etc) can be fixed without compromising the quality of the final product.

But we've got no idea why the parts in that image were discarded - folks seem to be jumping to all sort of conclusions from a picture of a bin   

GoldenEraGuitars

ICBM said:

GoldenEraGuitars said:

Considering the sunburst body in the picture is a “relic” I’d be keen to know what happened. 

Someone put a scratch in the wrong place, most likely.

I’m thinking Dales idea to take a circular saw to the body was a touch too far

ICBM

gavin_axecaster said:

My guess would be alignment issue so the trem/studs/neck pocket or something critical is off kilter.

That would mean that they aren't using proper tooling - surely they can't be *actually* making the bodies from scratch by hand, in some sort of perverse way to justify the price... can they? That would be completely bizarre logic. On the other hand, this is the strange world of overpriced solidbody electric guitars we're talking about so perhaps they are... but there's even less reason to buy one if so!

Arjailer said:

Hang on ... we have how many threads on here bemoaning Gibson QC and any minor defects on new guitars ... and now you want them to "fix" what are presumably defective bodies ...

It depends what the fault is. A shrinkage/warping issue, yes it should be junked - although you'd think they would select the wood more carefully for the Custom Shop. A serious tooling issue, yes - but you'd think that would have been spotted long before finishing.

gavin_axecaster

ICBM said:

gavin_axecaster said:

My guess would be alignment issue so the trem/studs/neck pocket or something critical is off kilter.

That would mean that they aren't using proper tooling - surely they can't be *actually* making the bodies from scratch by hand, in some sort of perverse way to justify the price... can they? That would be completely bizarre logic. On the other hand, this is the strange world of overpriced solidbody electric guitars we're talking about so perhaps they are... but there's even less reason to buy one if so!

From what I've read the bodies are CNC cut then finished by hand.

I'm just guessing - I'd think even CNC machined bodies can have issues - couldn't a blank moving slightly on the bed throw out a critical measurement?

Kittyfrisk

We seem to be extrapolating conclusions based on a photo that we have no idea about it's origin, context etc.

Having said that...it is shocking.
If I were in charge of a company and my quality control was so poor that lots of hours of work was routinely wasted on something that ended up chopped into pieces a bin, I'd be stalking the production shop & GC staff with a very sharp axe.

Given that Fenders are basically the same materials/construction (    ), I can't believe that an alternative value route could not be found for such 'flawed' items? 
'Custom Shop Entry Level' line anyone ?
or 'HarrySeven Special" ? 

prlgmnr

So they've got to have standards of some sort in place, and if there wasn't a possibility of something failing to meet the relevant standard in some way, then the standard would be pointless*. And they've got to do something with the things that don't meet the standard. So either they can sell them anyway, but then we go back to the standard being pointless, or they can destroy them.

It's probably reasonably safe to assume that they aren't sawing 10 in half for every 1 successful build.

*Having said that, there was an interesting article in the LRB a while back about a guy who went around studying factories, and when he asked the German workers in the VW plant what happened if they failed to meet production targets on a given day none of them could conceive of that possibility.

darthed1981

To be fair, a lot of it gets a bit OTT, a lot of threads could be...

Eager New Guitarist: "I'd love a Les Paul, Epiphone do really nice looking ones for £300!

Old Hands of TFB: "Yeah but Epiphone suck, they are made in the Far East, the headstock is ugly, they are just wrong.."

ENG: "Oh, right, well Gibsons are REALLY expensive, but I guess I could max my credit card, the Standard looks great though..."

OH: "No, Standards are terrible, not the sound in my head when I think of a Les Paul at all, you need a Custom Shop!!"

ENG "Oh god, I've just learned wonderwall but i think I need something decent"

OH: "Don't worry, you can pick up a used R8 for about £2600 from lots of members here"

ENG: "Do they take Kidneys?  Or first born children?"

OH: "Well really you should go vintage, there is something about old wood that really gives great tone"

ENG "I'm not sure I want too much to do with old wood"

OH: "Well look if you want to get into modelling you will just have to, now let's make an audition tape..."

etc. etc...

dazzajl

darthed1981 said:

To be fair, a lot of it gets a bit OTT, a lot of threads could be...

Eager New Guitarist: "I'd love a Les Paul, Epiphone do really nice looking ones for £300!

Old Hands of TFB: "Yeah but Epiphone suck, they are made in the Far East, the headstock is ugly, they are just wrong.."

ENG: "Oh, right, well Gibsons are REALLY expensive, but I guess I could max my credit card, the Standard looks great though..."

OH: "No, Standards are terrible, not the sound in my head when I think of a Les Paul at all, you need a Custom Shop!!"

ENG "Oh god, I've just learned wonderwall but i think I need something decent"

OH: "Don't worry, you can pick up a used R8 for about £2600 from lots of members here"

ENG: "Do they take Kidneys?  Or first born children?"

OH: "Well really you should go vintage, there is something about old wood that really gives great tone"

ENG "I'm not sure I want too much to do with old wood"

OH: "Well look if you want to get into modelling you will just have to, now let's make an audition tape..."

etc. etc...

It is the way of things. I’ve been on a cost vs quality vs what best suits me roundabout this week. 

Odd as my ‘real life’ I’m a snapper. So I have a load of camera gear that’s old and battered now but was top spec pro kit when I bought it. They’re my tools and I invest where needed. 

However, outside of commissioned work I have one image that I love and is by far the most popular I’ve ever shown. It was taken on a broken little camera with a very cheap, almost toy, lens. The truth will always be that what you play is more important than what you play it on. But if want to play it on a CS guitar and you can, you definitely should. 

prlgmnr

You mean £1500 surely.

RaymondLin

darthed1981 said:

To be fair, a lot of it gets a bit OTT, a lot of threads could be...

Eager New Guitarist: "I'd love a Les Paul, Epiphone do really nice looking ones for £300!

Old Hands of TFB: "Yeah but Epiphone suck, they are made in the Far East, the headstock is ugly, they are just wrong.."

ENG: "Oh, right, well Gibsons are REALLY expensive, but I guess I could max my credit card, the Standard looks great though..."

OH: "No, Standards are terrible, not the sound in my head when I think of a Les Paul at all, you need a Custom Shop!!"

ENG "Oh god, I've just learned wonderwall but i think I need something decent"

OH: "Don't worry, you can pick up a used R8 for about £2600 from lots of members here"

ENG: "Do they take Kidneys?  Or first born children?"

OH: "Well really you should go vintage, there is something about old wood that really gives great tone"

ENG "I'm not sure I want too much to do with old wood"

OH: "Well look if you want to get into modelling you will just have to, now let's make an audition tape..."

etc. etc...

Forums are rabbit hole.  Sometimes ignorance is bliss, my brother in law plays through a PRS SE and happy as larry.  I "lent" (like 5 years ago) him a scarab deluxe and a EQD Delay (I forgot which one) and he was way over the moon as I don't use them.

Strat54

guitars4you said:

Strat54 said:

guitars4you said:

Also take into account that Fender do not carry any stock in the USA, EU or UK warehouse (or indeed throughout the world) - Every guitar that is built, is already assigned to an appropriate dealer somewhere in the world - As such it carries an invoice and Fender will be paid within 7-10 days in most instances - So it is not a case that they have warehouses full of guitars they can't sell

Whilst the days of CS sitting in the wharehouse may have gone, Fender still produce large quantities of CS guitars ad lib and sell them to dealers at events like the one taking place in Holland tonight. Have you not gone to the event @guitars4you ? I've seen the pics and there's an awful lot of guitars there being snapped up by dealers from around the EU. 

I have enough stock so did not need to justify a trip - I don't do NAMM these days but still get access to the Ltd Runs from such shows - I don't know the full stock listing of the Dutch event, but at NAMM only 1 of each product is produced for the show, to showcase - All stock is then produced based on orders taken

I did see a stock list 2 months ago, or so, that had a high number of unsold pieces, but they were not exactly high on my list of what to buy, so not sure if the Dutch event is to also clear out any unwanted goods

They actually look pretty special pieces. Max Guitar scored the very first SRV Sig Strat Relic which is basically the old US Signature model produced by the CS and relic'd lightly. Everything looked individual and pretty desirble. I found myself lusting over a '55 hardtail Strat with 22 frets alas it was  Jason Smith and 5990 Euros. 
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/61938654_2943333062373384_93746732206129152_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=3d3c5d5ece2e9e287e8d97892f47f585&oe=5D8B607A

guitars4you

Strat54 said:

guitars4you said:

Strat54 said:

guitars4you said:

Also take into account that Fender do not carry any stock in the USA, EU or UK warehouse (or indeed throughout the world) - Every guitar that is built, is already assigned to an appropriate dealer somewhere in the world - As such it carries an invoice and Fender will be paid within 7-10 days in most instances - So it is not a case that they have warehouses full of guitars they can't sell

Whilst the days of CS sitting in the wharehouse may have gone, Fender still produce large quantities of CS guitars ad lib and sell them to dealers at events like the one taking place in Holland tonight. Have you not gone to the event @guitars4you ? I've seen the pics and there's an awful lot of guitars there being snapped up by dealers from around the EU. 

I have enough stock so did not need to justify a trip - I don't do NAMM these days but still get access to the Ltd Runs from such shows - I don't know the full stock listing of the Dutch event, but at NAMM only 1 of each product is produced for the show, to showcase - All stock is then produced based on orders taken

I did see a stock list 2 months ago, or so, that had a high number of unsold pieces, but they were not exactly high on my list of what to buy, so not sure if the Dutch event is to also clear out any unwanted goods

They actually look pretty special pieces. Max Guitar scored the very first SRV Sig Strat Relic which is basically the old US Signature model produced by the CS and relic'd lightly. Everything looked individual and pretty desirble. I found myself lusting over a '55 hardtail Strat with 22 frets alas it was  Jason Smith and 5990 Euros. 
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/61938654_2943333062373384_93746732206129152_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=3d3c5d5ece2e9e287e8d97892f47f585&oe=5D8B607A

Braver man than me buying that Strat for stock - Hard sell IMO - But who am I to know

Max is the main man I believe in Holland - I know he buys many 'odd ball' models inc the Game of Thrones etc etc

Th4fonz

Im all in favour of go and buy a customshop strat tele whatever.  Great guitars Ive played a lot of them this year and 90% of them were great lifetime guitars.  I personally dont agree on the independant luthier built guitars are better.  All the copycat brands Ive played have been lacking compared to the real thing.