Another "career" thread

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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 5433
    If you have the skills, then working in a different field might be worth it.

    One of my best friends is a programmer, and a very good one.  He got what he thought was his dream job with a games firm.  Problem was that the company was being run by guys who started out in their back bedroom with a Spectrum in the 80s.  They couldn't run what had grown into quite a big company by that time, and it was not a good place to work.  He was far happier when he left and got a job writing financial software.

    If you can do something different during the day, then the music and video stuff becomes fun again.
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  • TeetonetalTeetonetal Frets: 6277
    Change is not always the answer, but it can be.

    Last year I was in a similar position. Been with the company 7 years, they did a restructure, downsized everywhere. I ended up with a boss who did not want me or my team and showed so little interest in me, that at one point we didn't even speak for 8 weeks!

    Job hunting itself was liberating. I was honest with myself about what I wanted, what I was good at and applied only for things that I genuinely thought would be a good challenge or offer development.

    My new job has proved to be eye opening and extremely challenging, yet I very seldom have to work long hours. I've lost some flexibility but I am so much happier. 
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 6340
    A musician, generally a fine idea.
    But a technician involved in sound, lighting, mixing, cueing etc; sometimes all at once, while dealing with a bunch of prima donna musicians, performers, directors, producers, guests, VIP friends... maybe not so great  ;)
    my mate was principal sound engineer at a large venue once (took the role to get a mortgage, not poss on freelance). They had him there until the last drinker in the bar left every night to lock up at 1am or whatever. He soon resigned and went back to freelance
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  • ToneControlToneControl Frets: 6340
    OK, I've told my kids this and I'll tell anyone.
    The UK is home to one of the 2 largest financial centres in the world. 
    This means that there is a lot of cash flowing, and a lot of IT needed
    If you can get into any kind of role in IT in this country, there is a lot of cash, for those from any background

    For example 3 years ago, I worked with a woman with a fine art degree and masters, working as a contract PM in IT in her late 20s in Manchester, I'd guess on £400-£500 a day

    I've met architects who were chefs, and lots of incompetent project managers on perfectly good senior salaries doing normal hours. there are any number of roles in Live service, run teams, PMO, BAs, infra that are mostly populated by bright people who did not do computer science a levels or degrees
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  • Right, got a bit of time to tackle this thread this morning. I'll try and not be all woe is me about it!
    What's driving the length of the work days? Deadlines? If so then I'm sure there will be pressure to work on your off day, so that may not help. If it's just a feeling of obligation which is driving the hours then the off day sounds like a good plan.

    But when it comes down to it, you are being abused and need to get out of there if possible, I would say.
    A good chunk of it is the "obligation" thing. You work with the same people for nearly 12 years, and you start to develop these patterns. I don't often push back against deadlines because on some level I know I can get it done. Even if it means sitting at a computer for 18 hours going delirious as I edit audio and address mistakes other people have made. It's 8am, and I'm sat here next to my kid, and I'm already doing bits of work. I officially don't start until 10am... so that tells you my mindset.

    Jalapeno said:
    Have you asked for a serious career 121 with your boss ? Things often won't change unless you take the initiative. Most companies will milk employees to the max, not because they're devious exploitative gits (though occasionally some are), but that's how things drift along, and employees step-up to fill a need/vacuum and so it goes ..... 
    This is where I have to be a little careful. But yes, I have done this before. Not only with my direct boss but with another staff member who felt that because I had an allegiance to one particular product, that it meant I wasn't suitable for a product management/product owner position. That was sort of the death knell of that part of my career. Somehow I'm still expected to do product ownery things though and that seems to be something that even when I do push back on, it's expected of me.

    p90fool said:
    Firstly, if your income is even slightly stretched because of alcohol you need to stop. Now.

    I know you know this and it can feel like the only way to wind down after a long hard day, but you need to find a healthy alternative. 

    Next, you need to find time for your wife and child, these are years you won't ever get back. 

    Career-wise only you can know really, but it is possible to breeze your way through a stressful job by emotionally prioritising other areas of your life - work is not everything, or shouldn't be. 

    If you feel unappreciated just cut your hours back to your contracted hours and spend more time with your family.

    If you don't have full creative control then you also don't have sole responsibility for deadlines, let some other mug take the strain unless they reward you for your efforts. 

    All this is very easy to type, but you need to start changing how work affects your emotions. 
    Good observations. I wont lie, and I will be transparent. I probably spend around £200-£250 on alcohol each month. That's based on going over my outgoings with the wife one time last year. That's more than I spend on transport. I know it's a problem, but nothing else "works" as such ... I've tried getting into exercise, swimming, all that jazz... seems to work for a month or two and then poof.... There is a part of me that could quite happily be a stay at home dad. 90% of the time I enjoy spending time with my daughter and making her laugh, feeding her, taking her the park etc... I see a lot of the mums in the area and from where I sit, they've got it cushy. Simply can't afford for me to not work though, and the other part of me... the part that wants to achieve... wouldn't be happy to do it. Pretty schizophrenic about family versus work versus passions tbh.


    From the sound of things, you are in that perfect storm stress place, of not being able to do what you love doing; not having any real control over how things are done and also working extra hard, running to stand still. Also putting self esteem into work, which is natural, but often totally disregarded by others.
    Throw in a home life etc. and it just isn't sustainable for you (or anyone else).

    Or, can you get access to a 'talking therapy' ( sorry, but that's what they call counselling these days) maybe via a GP?

    Seeking help is not a failure or a weakness, it is the realisation that you really aren't managing on your own.
    That is a bloody hard thing to admit, but it is a positive thing to realise that you're not alone in feeling like this.

    I actually had a round of talking therapies with the NHS at the start of the year. It helped a bit. And I learned some tools to deal with anxiety and stress in the short-term, but the long-term hasn't changed very much. You're right about putting self esteem into work (even band stuff as well tbh!)
    Can you get into non-music instrument IT software Quality assurance? i.e. "testing"? or IT project management / product ownership? Do you have any skills in "Agile" projects?
    I possibly could. I've got a lot of QA experience already as it's what I did for the first 5 years. I've deliberately resisted the idea of A: going into non-music sectors and B: going back into QA. I applied for a QA Manager position last year and would've got the job if I ... er.. didn't tell them in my interview that QA wasn't really where I wanted to be!!! Stupid. Feels like it would be a step backwards, regardless of the likely higher pay brackets. I do have experience with Agile. Tends to be a buzzword that is thrown around, but everything we do is Agile in some way.
    Stuckfast said:
    Could you not jump ship to one of the other companies in the field developing similar products? I know of several that have expanded rapidly in recent years, and with it being a niche field, I doubt there are too many well-qualified people out there,
    Believe it or not, there aren't very many companies in London that specialise in music-tech. Things are changing a bit, but the UK isn't the best place for music tech. Germany, Japan, and the USA would be much better.
    TACOMA NARROWS BRIDGE DISASTER
    Dominus Spiritus Invictus
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  • WiresDreamDisastersWiresDreamDisasters Frets: 4229
    edited July 17
    TTony said:
    Serious question / suggestion.

    Is there anyone you can talk to, face to face, regularly?

    Posting here is an outlet, you can vent, but it’s largely one way, and probably helps for even less time than a drink.

    Few people here (if anyone) know you well enough, are experienced and objective enough, and will also tell you stuff that you don’t want to hear (in a way that ensures that you do *hear* it, to give back what you need from the venting.

    Sometimes called a “critical friend” it has to be someone you trust completely, someone close enough that that either know you or can understand your situation, but someone sufficiently removed from your day to day life that you won’t have any embarrassment (at the time, or later) if you share the personal stuff with them.  Because it will and should get very personal.  It’s not just about the shit work stuff.

    Just to make the job description tougher, it also needs to be someone who’ll be critical when necessary rather than giving meaningless (and useless) platitudes, and someone whose advice you’ll respect.

    That gives you the 2-way interaction - you can still vent, but you’ll get something positive back.  It also needs to be a long-term thing - that critical friend needs to stick around and be there when you’re happy as well as when you’re less happy.

    HTH.


    Well, yes... I have friends. lol. I even have some who will tell me I'm totally full of shit when indeed I am! So yes, I do have this. But could I pick a specific individual? Maybe not. A good friend who used to work with me is very good at this, but we don't see each other regularly.
    axisus said:
    One thing that I have never done in life is take a chance, quit my safe world and go out on a limb to try to make my lot better. If I felt that bad about a job I think I'd risk a big change. Think of what you would rather be doing in an ideal world and see if you can plan a route to it. Don't worry about how pie in the sky it is.
    Yep, I can relate to that. I feel a lot of regret already about not seizing life by the balls, and I'm only just about to turn 35. Becoming a dad has kind of killed my ambition.
    ESBlonde said:
    Stop trying to be the big man with drinking, fags, substance abuse. You will regret it (if you live long enough).
    You have reached the time of life when you are the provider. You have to take second seat to the family for a while,  this phase will pass and you will be proud of all you have done but it takes years. School was years but you survived and flourished, you can do it and you know you can. Select the job that provides but hang on to your dreams. 
    I don't smoke and I don't abuse substances or do drugs or anything like that. It's not about being the big man, but I will be completely honest... the idea of taking second seat really does not sit well with me. If anything makes me want to top myself, it's the idea that I'm no longer important and that I'm just a tool or a resource to be mined. That is terrible and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Families and marriages are partnerships, and everyone's needs are important. Which is why they are so tricky. Lost count the number of guys (yes, specifically men) who have turned themselves into a kind of secondary citizen within their marriage and family for it to only backfire when they get divorced or he dies in his 40's having never done anything for himself. Seriously, seen it a lot.
    TACOMA NARROWS BRIDGE DISASTER
    Dominus Spiritus Invictus
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  • fields5069fields5069 Frets: 1699
    Right, got a bit of time to tackle this thread this morning. I'll try and not be all woe is me about it!
    What's driving the length of the work days? Deadlines? If so then I'm sure there will be pressure to work on your off day, so that may not help. If it's just a feeling of obligation which is driving the hours then the off day sounds like a good plan.

    But when it comes down to it, you are being abused and need to get out of there if possible, I would say.
    A good chunk of it is the "obligation" thing. You work with the same people for nearly 12 years, and you start to develop these patterns. I don't often push back against deadlines because on some level I know I can get it done. Even if it means sitting at a computer for 18 hours going delirious as I edit audio and address mistakes other people have made. It's 8am, and I'm sat here next to my kid, and I'm already doing bits of work. I officially don't start until 10am... so that tells you my mindset.

    .
    The trouble is, many companies thrive off hard working employees like you, but are you sharing in the company's success? Many people think that still having a job is in some way "success", and companies are happy to let you go on thinking that way. But at the end of the day you are selling a service, and at the moment the company is getting at least half an employee free of charge. If you are propping up the company's business model, with no hint of any thanks (shares, cold hard cash, etc.), then it's time to reduce those hours.

    My hope is that, by reducing those hours, you will be in a position to plan more activities with your family outside work, which will (I hope) lead naturally to less drinking. If you want to stay in this job then, in my opinion, this is the way forward.
    Some folks like water, some folks like wine.
    My feedback thread is here.
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 645
    Stuckfast said:
    Could you not jump ship to one of the other companies in the field developing similar products? I know of several that have expanded rapidly in recent years, and with it being a niche field, I doubt there are too many well-qualified people out there,
    Believe it or not, there aren't very many companies in London that specialise in music-tech. Things are changing a bit, but the UK isn't the best place for music tech. Germany, Japan, and the USA would be much better.
    The UK might not be the very best place in the world to do this but it's way better than 95 percent of countries. On the virtual instrument / sample library front there's Spitfire Audio (who have grown hugely in the last few years), Soniccouture, Loopmasters, AMG, Zero-G and probably plenty more that I can't recall off the top of my head. Focusrite have a software division that is based in London. I think the old Sibelius team that develops Dorico is still based in the UK. And I'd imagine that there are quite a few people in the UK doing development work for German, Japanese and US companies. Korg and Yamaha for example have fairly large operations in the UK. Tatsuya Takahashi, who developed all the modern Korg analogue synths, came from London. NI and Waves have done stuff at Abbey Road which must have involved UK people.

    If you have an idea for a product that you want to develop, maybe shop it around some of these companies?
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  • Stuckfast said:
    Stuckfast said:
    Could you not jump ship to one of the other companies in the field developing similar products? I know of several that have expanded rapidly in recent years, and with it being a niche field, I doubt there are too many well-qualified people out there,
    Believe it or not, there aren't very many companies in London that specialise in music-tech. Things are changing a bit, but the UK isn't the best place for music tech. Germany, Japan, and the USA would be much better.
    The UK might not be the very best place in the world to do this but it's way better than 95 percent of countries. On the virtual instrument / sample library front there's Spitfire Audio (who have grown hugely in the last few years), Soniccouture, Loopmasters, AMG, Zero-G and probably plenty more that I can't recall off the top of my head. Focusrite have a software division that is based in London. I think the old Sibelius team that develops Dorico is still based in the UK. And I'd imagine that there are quite a few people in the UK doing development work for German, Japanese and US companies. Korg and Yamaha for example have fairly large operations in the UK. Tatsuya Takahashi, who developed all the modern Korg analogue synths, came from London. NI and Waves have done stuff at Abbey Road which must have involved UK people.

    If you have an idea for a product that you want to develop, maybe shop it around some of these companies?
    I'm in quite a strange position. If you take my CV and my day to day at face value, then I'm a full-time employed audio engineer and content developer.

    But the vast majority of that work in the music tech industry is contracted out. So right now I'm unemployable unless I lean on my other areas of expertise and experience. That's how it looks from my pessimistic viewpoint right now anyway.
    TACOMA NARROWS BRIDGE DISASTER
    Dominus Spiritus Invictus
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 645
    So you want/need a staff position rather than a contract gig? Hmmm. It still might be worth asking around -- I know that Spitfire for instance have grown from four people to over seventy in about five years...
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  • CloudNineCloudNine Frets: 3064
    p90fool said:
    Firstly, if your income is even slightly stretched because of alcohol you need to stop. Now.

    I know you know this and it can feel like the only way to wind down after a long hard day, but you need to find a healthy alternative. 

    Next, you need to find time for your wife and child, these are years you won't ever get back. 

    Career-wise only you can know really, but it is possible to breeze your way through a stressful job by emotionally prioritising other areas of your life - work is not everything, or shouldn't be. 

    If you feel unappreciated just cut your hours back to your contracted hours and spend more time with your family.

    If you don't have full creative control then you also don't have sole responsibility for deadlines, let some other mug take the strain unless they reward you for your efforts. 

    All this is very easy to type, but you need to start changing how work affects your emotions. 
    Muchos sagacity.
    # Previously Stevieb76 on the old Music Radar #
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  • BudgieBudgie Frets: 1014
    edited July 18
    Are there.
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  • I remember watching a documentary on porn stars. There was this guy who in his prime was fucking left, right, and centre, and getting his end away as much as he wanted. Girls on both arms all the time, money flowing free, not a care in the world. But then he got older and left the industry, or at the least stopped performing as I recall. He was mid 50's and had NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING going on in his life. He was lonely, wasn't married, didn't have a girlfriend, didn't have kids, none of it.

    You could tell he was ready to end it all. Quite sad.

    On the flipside though, he got as much Asian beaver as he wanted. So silver lining and all that.
     :s 

    TACOMA NARROWS BRIDGE DISASTER
    Dominus Spiritus Invictus
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  • PhilW1PhilW1 Frets: 320
    edited July 17
    If your on crap money doing a crap job that you don't enjoy and doing far more unpaid hours than you need, you really need to re-evaluate your career before it starts affecting your health and private life. I would look at a total career change,(guitar tutor?) there must be a lot of jobs for similar crap money but better conditions and maybe overtime for any extra hours.
    You really must put yourself first because if anything happened to your health the company's main concern will be how to replace you ,so fuck em and move on.
    Dont forget work to live not live to work.
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  • tony99tony99 Frets: 2507
    I remember watching a documentary on porn stars. There was this guy who in his prime was fucking left, right, and centre, and getting his end away as much as he wanted. Girls on both arms all the time, money flowing free, not a care in the world. But then he got older and left the industry, or at the least stopped performing as I recall. He was mid 50's and had NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING going on in his life. He was lonely, wasn't married, didn't have a girlfriend, didn't have kids, none of it.

    You could tell he was ready to end it all. Quite sad.

    On the flipside though, he got as much Asian beaver as he wanted. So silver lining and all that.
     :s 

    It's not a viable option, I can see the appeal and widening your horizons is always good as it shows ambition, but you need to re-evaluate, really.
    Bollocks you don't know Bono !!
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  • LestratcasterLestratcaster Frets: 582
    Sorry to hijack this thread, but I'm experiencing something similar in terms of what I'm doing. Someone mentioned transitioning to being a guitar tutor which is what I did 11 years ago (not worked full time since 2007) and studied at ACM for 4 years til 2011).

    Was a struggle to get going and even cash flow was hard. Now its going ok, I can pay myself a monthly wage at least, and cashflow is a lot better. But the hours are very unsociable. Alot of evening weekday work and weekends at the moment seem to be rather empty due to many people wanting to keep those free to do other things.

    Running costs are going up and up and some months I struggle to cover them all comfortably. 

    I know I will need some form of side/day-job but any applications for any schools have been unfruitful largely due to the fact I have no experience teaching young children in a classroom environment. Had one application last year fall through because of this. I find it hard to find any retail work as again, not much experience, and many supermarkets will wonder why someone with a music degree and self-employed will be wanting to work for them.

    Main issue with daytime hours which need to be filled with something as only 1 day in the week anyone comes in before 5pm.
    Even 3 days per week somewhere just to keep the bills and overheads covered then I can focus on my lessons in the evenings whilst still having a bit of time to myself. Work flow dips seasonally so summer holiday and Christmas periods are pretty bad as maintaining student numbers.

    What other options have I got? Can I leave off my CV/application the fact I have a degree when I apply for any retail work? What about the self-employed tutor bit?
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  • KittyfriskKittyfrisk Frets: 1803
    I remember watching a documentary on porn stars. There was this guy who in his prime was fucking left, right, and centre, and getting his end away as much as he wanted. Girls on both arms all the time, money flowing free, not a care in the world. But then he got older and left the industry, or at the least stopped performing as I recall. He was mid 50's and had NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING going on in his life. He was lonely, wasn't married, didn't have a girlfriend, didn't have kids, none of it.

    You could tell he was ready to end it all. Quite sad.

    On the flipside though, he got as much Asian beaver as he wanted. So silver lining and all that.
     :s 

    I don't reckon a pornstar moustache would help much...
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  • TTonyTTony Frets: 16315
    Well, yes... I have friends. lol. I even have some who will tell me I'm totally full of shit when indeed I am! So yes, I do have this. But could I pick a specific individual? Maybe not. A good friend who used to work with me is very good at this, but we don't see each other regularly.
    Sounds like that person is worth talking to.
    "is very good at this":  sounds like you respect their capability
    "a good friend":  so, I'm assuming they know you fairly well
    "but we don't see each other regularly":  means that (a) you'll have to make the effort so your time will be focused and (b) you wont be bumping into them every day.

    The coaching/mentoring/criticalfriend/soundingboard/etc role isn't something that happens by  chance.  You should ask them whether they'd be happy to play that role for you and - if they are - agree that you'll set aside meaningful time with them every X weeks. 

    It would need commitment from both of you - ie both of you being able to make and stick to that commitment - and being free to say if it's not working.
    :)

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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 14482
    Sorry to hijack this thread, but I'm experiencing something similar in terms of what I'm doing. Someone mentioned transitioning to being a guitar tutor which is what I did 11 years ago (not worked full time since 2007) and studied at ACM for 4 years til 2011).

    Was a struggle to get going and even cash flow was hard. Now its going ok, I can pay myself a monthly wage at least, and cashflow is a lot better. But the hours are very unsociable. Alot of evening weekday work and weekends at the moment seem to be rather empty due to many people wanting to keep those free to do other things.

    Running costs are going up and up and some months I struggle to cover them all comfortably. 

    I know I will need some form of side/day-job but any applications for any schools have been unfruitful largely due to the fact I have no experience teaching young children in a classroom environment. Had one application last year fall through because of this. I find it hard to find any retail work as again, not much experience, and many supermarkets will wonder why someone with a music degree and self-employed will be wanting to work for them.

    Main issue with daytime hours which need to be filled with something as only 1 day in the week anyone comes in before 5pm.
    Even 3 days per week somewhere just to keep the bills and overheads covered then I can focus on my lessons in the evenings whilst still having a bit of time to myself. Work flow dips seasonally so summer holiday and Christmas periods are pretty bad as maintaining student numbers.

    What other options have I got? Can I leave off my CV/application the fact I have a degree when I apply for any retail work? What about the self-employed tutor bit?
    Really? I work as a stock controller in a supermarket alongside an ordained priest, two ex lawyers, a retired airline pilot and literally dozens of people with degrees of various types. 

    I've had a pretty varied career myself in engineering, meteorological instrument design, as a full time musician and many different roles in the motor industry, and none of us have had to hide any of that for fear of being "overqualified". 

    Some are winding down towards retirement, some are still deciding what to do as a career, and some, like me, simply don't have time among all life's fun stuff to waste it on an all-consuming job. 

    Go for it, you might be surprised. 
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  • LestratcasterLestratcaster Frets: 582
    p90fool said:
    Sorry to hijack this thread, but I'm experiencing something similar in terms of what I'm doing. Someone mentioned transitioning to being a guitar tutor which is what I did 11 years ago (not worked full time since 2007) and studied at ACM for 4 years til 2011).

    Was a struggle to get going and even cash flow was hard. Now its going ok, I can pay myself a monthly wage at least, and cashflow is a lot better. But the hours are very unsociable. Alot of evening weekday work and weekends at the moment seem to be rather empty due to many people wanting to keep those free to do other things.

    Running costs are going up and up and some months I struggle to cover them all comfortably. 

    I know I will need some form of side/day-job but any applications for any schools have been unfruitful largely due to the fact I have no experience teaching young children in a classroom environment. Had one application last year fall through because of this. I find it hard to find any retail work as again, not much experience, and many supermarkets will wonder why someone with a music degree and self-employed will be wanting to work for them.

    Main issue with daytime hours which need to be filled with something as only 1 day in the week anyone comes in before 5pm.
    Even 3 days per week somewhere just to keep the bills and overheads covered then I can focus on my lessons in the evenings whilst still having a bit of time to myself. Work flow dips seasonally so summer holiday and Christmas periods are pretty bad as maintaining student numbers.

    What other options have I got? Can I leave off my CV/application the fact I have a degree when I apply for any retail work? What about the self-employed tutor bit?
    Really? I work as a stock controller in a supermarket alongside an ordained priest, two ex lawyers, a retired airline pilot and literally dozens of people with degrees of various types. 

    I've had a pretty varied career myself in engineering, meteorological instrument design, as a full time musician and many different roles in the motor industry, and none of us have had to hide any of that for fear of being "overqualified". 

    Some are winding down towards retirement, some are still deciding what to do as a career, and some, like me, simply don't have time among all life's fun stuff to waste it on an all-consuming job. 

    Go for it, you might be surprised. 
    I've had several rejections from supermarkets, they didn't say why though but I can only assume they saw I have a music degree. Its pretty clear to them I won't be working for them to progress from a checkout assistant to a duty manager!
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  • KittyfriskKittyfrisk Frets: 1803
    p90fool said:
    Sorry to hijack this thread, but I'm experiencing something similar in terms of what I'm doing. Someone mentioned transitioning to being a guitar tutor which is what I did 11 years ago (not worked full time since 2007) and studied at ACM for 4 years til 2011).

    Was a struggle to get going and even cash flow was hard. Now its going ok, I can pay myself a monthly wage at least, and cashflow is a lot better. But the hours are very unsociable. Alot of evening weekday work and weekends at the moment seem to be rather empty due to many people wanting to keep those free to do other things.

    Running costs are going up and up and some months I struggle to cover them all comfortably. 

    I know I will need some form of side/day-job but any applications for any schools have been unfruitful largely due to the fact I have no experience teaching young children in a classroom environment. Had one application last year fall through because of this. I find it hard to find any retail work as again, not much experience, and many supermarkets will wonder why someone with a music degree and self-employed will be wanting to work for them.

    Main issue with daytime hours which need to be filled with something as only 1 day in the week anyone comes in before 5pm.
    Even 3 days per week somewhere just to keep the bills and overheads covered then I can focus on my lessons in the evenings whilst still having a bit of time to myself. Work flow dips seasonally so summer holiday and Christmas periods are pretty bad as maintaining student numbers.

    What other options have I got? Can I leave off my CV/application the fact I have a degree when I apply for any retail work? What about the self-employed tutor bit?
    Really? I work as a stock controller in a supermarket alongside an ordained priest, two ex lawyers, a retired airline pilot and literally dozens of people with degrees of various types. 

    I've had a pretty varied career myself in engineering, meteorological instrument design, as a full time musician and many different roles in the motor industry, and none of us have had to hide any of that for fear of being "overqualified". 

    Some are winding down towards retirement, some are still deciding what to do as a career, and some, like me, simply don't have time among all life's fun stuff to waste it on an all-consuming job. 

    Go for it, you might be surprised. 
    Too right.
    Far too many people seem to have their sense of 'self' indivisibly woven into their CV's, jobs or perceived life roles.

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  • LestratcasterLestratcaster Frets: 582
    Going for a role at a supermarket, if I leave out info about music degree and the private lessons they will want to know why I've not worked for 10 years? To be fair I don't think they're relevant to the job I'm applying for anyway, the more relevant experience is the fact I have worked for a supermarket before but that was almost 20 years ago....
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 8403
    Going for a role at a supermarket, if I leave out info about music degree and the private lessons they will want to know why I've not worked for 10 years? To be fair I don't think they're relevant to the job I'm applying for anyway, the more relevant experience is the fact I have worked for a supermarket before but that was almost 20 years ago....
    my position is somewhat similar to yours in that I've been self employed for 9 years now, I've had some success getting interviews (and some job offers) in jobs not too dissimilar to retail work by saying things that I've been self employed for x number of years which I have really enjoyed, but I found myself missing working as part of a team and add some blah blah. I'm sure they don't believe it, but IME, for that level of job, employers are looking to make sure they can safely tick HR boxes. Make it easy for them to employ you. 

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • LestratcasterLestratcaster Frets: 582
    Should I just bring that up at a potential interview stage? Or put it in from the off? 
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 8403
    I put it in the personal statement of my CV or if there's a box like that on the application form. 

    I'm not locked in here with you, you are locked in here with me.

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  • LestratcasterLestratcaster Frets: 582
    I clicked through to the end of the application and its telling me I haven't met some minimum criteria required for automated online screening. A few boxes I didn't fill out straight away as I was thinking what to write! Due to this my "application has been unsuccessful"!
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  • TimmyOTimmyO Frets: 4023
    Fuck me. I don't want to write this, but I feel I need to, even just to get it out of my head. I can't get too specific due to slander clauses in my contract. But let's say this - I have zero idea where I am going these days. I used to have a game plan. Bits of which I can't talk about, but effectively I was being groomed to be a product owner. So I would finally have full creative control over the vision of a product - let's pretend it's a drum product for musicians. I would have successfully moved sideways into a position that I actually wanted at the time, and it would've been great for my CV and my future.

    Alas, that ship has sailed now I feel. I've been demoted to what I can only call a content developer. And it sucks. Long hours and boring progress bar watching jobs, for a meagre wage which doesn't go far enough each month due to outgoings and alcohol (a terrible way to deal with stress and anxiety about the future, I know that) and I look at my developer friends who do half the hours I do for twice the pay... and I'm thinking ... what the actual fuck? Why am I doing this? No-one even cares about it.

    I do audio and video production mainly. I'm better at the former, but getting better at the later. But when I look around at the jobs market for this kind of thing, it looks awful. Simply awful. And because these things are my job, I find it difficult to get hyped for the audio and video production stuff that I need to do in my personal life (band, Youtube, etc) and nearly every day I feel burnt out.

    I'm moving across to doing four 10 hour days instead of five 8 hour days, but I can't do that until the end of July. I'm hoping the extra day will allow me to actually invest in myself instead of being the wage-slave patriarch that I have become, and always told myself I would never become, and feel entirely bitter over the whole thing.

    I should add that even though I'm contracted to do 8 hour days, I regularly do 13-14 hour days. Two weeks ago I did an 18 hour day followed by two 12 hour days back to back too. You wouldn't know it if you only went on my posting rate on here, but I work my ass off most weeks. Dropping a day and fixing my hours to 4 feels like a step in the right direction - in the short term anyway.

    As I say - some specifics I can't get into ... but where I am in life and career right now is so utterly miserable, and I don't see a way out. I truly don't. And I have zero support from anyone.

    I've said things on here in the past relating to this, but simply put - how the hell do I get out of this spider web?!
    completely different industry/skills but I can completely identify with all of this and have had 2 pinch-points in my working life where I took a massive left turn and changed things. Your phrase "how the hell do I get out of this spider web" puts how I felt, perfectly. 

    My experience of that was to simply get out of it. By which I mean to not have a perfect alternative worked out, but to feel like getting out of it was important enough to my whole life that that realisation had to be acted on in isolation. After that move (and the additional panic deciding to do it generates) the way forward looks entirely different. It's hard to describe, but it does. More things feel like they are options - the decks felt totally clear. (and other shit analogies) 

    Shout if you want to talk about it. 
    "Congratulations on being officially the most right anyone has ever been about anything, ever." -- Noisepolluter knows the score
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