What were they thinking?

ICBM

guitars4you said:

And let's not forget the Tom Scholz Rockman 

I almost had before you said that!!

  

earwighoney

guitars4you said:

HarrySeven said:

I think it’s a really interesting question.

From my own perspective, technology in the ‘80’s promised a radical new world - just look at the Roland GR-700/G-707, Stepp DG-1, SynthAxe, Bond Electraglide, fridge-sized rack systems for those uber-processed tones, Floyds on everything, blahblahblah.

Although (some of) the core ideas behind the above have survived and evolved, that promised techno-revolution never *quite* materialised/swept away those boring old Strats and Les Pauls...

 Looking back at certain guitar trends that were tech based - Was it the late 80's, even early 90's when the Ada MP1 or the Marshall JMP1, or the Marshall 9000 models, sat at the heart of many 19" rack assemblies - With the TC2290, Quadraverb, Korg SDD3000 etc etc - If you had the funds what about the Mesa Boogie Quad and Studio pre-amps and the huge + expensive Boogie power amp (can't recall's it name) - Then the Boogie Tri-axis followed for guys who liked rich toys

IMO, those kind of complex midi switching effects etc set ups have been replaced by Kemper, Axe-FX.

OilCityPickups said:

earwighoney said:

OilCityPickups said:

earwighoney said:

scrumhalf said:

Given enough time we'll have period-correct re-issues of period-correct re-issues.

I think that kind of already exists.  I've seen reissues of Dry-Z pickups, that themselves were reissues of PAF's AKAIK.  Maybe I'm missing something, maybe @OilCityPickups Ash could fill in the details. 

I'm actually making a set of Dry-Z clones at the moment for a customer ... with all the factory information and a reference set. 
Let me tell you the Dry-Z is actually nothing like a PAF in the so called 'important' details inside, even if it produces a PAF like tone. It shows that good design can approximate a sound very well even if 'traditional' materials aren't used. I may well go on to make these a product line.  

Thanks for the info Ash, and pleased to be corrected. 

I've found a bit of info about the specs for Dry Z pickups, rough cast A3's, maple/mahogany spacers and a few other things but I can't find any info about the wire.  I presume it's AWG42 like PAF's? 

Back to Japanese pickups, even if some of the guitars weren't of the best quality there were some truly exceptional MIJ pickups eg Teisco, Guyatone and the Dry Z's. 

The biggest difference is they they were wound with the only wire available to the manufacturers: .0,063mm modern poly coated wire or 'polysol'. 'PAF Purity Nazis' will tell you that there is no way you can wind a PAF with poly wire and it sound 'right'. This is actually not so ... the winding pattern, tension and the turn count has to be adjusted to take account of the different wire coating ... but it's perfectly possible. True it's easier to wind a PAF that sounds period correct with PVA plain enamel wire, but the Polysol brings it's own advantages, among others: durability and long life,  

Thanks for the really interesting reply Ash. I never knew about the differences between the different types of wire and the differences.  How would you describe Dry Z's in comparison to PAF's (one of the same Alnico, as Gibson made PAF's with a number of different Alnico magnets right?)

I came across this generalisation from TGP from Klein Pickups

Heavy Formvar = Warm & Bright
Poly = Warm & not as bright as Heavy Formvar
Enamel = Less bright, some what darker than Poly & Heavy Formvar

I don't really understand 'PAF purity Nazis', but that's another completely different issue!  

Funkfingers

guitars4you said:

And let's not forget the Tom Scholz Rockman 

I remember trying the rack version of that at Allbang & Strummit. Not having the money for the two original half width modules, I asked to test the pre-amp/compression section on its own. i.e. With the chorus/delay bypassed. Man, did it sound small.

Having said that, in my late Twenties, I derived great enjoyment from Nomad Axxeman rack. It recorded nicely to four track cassette. With the benefit of hindsight, I suspect that part of what I liked about the sound was due to dbx™ compansion and deliberate tape saturation.

HarrySeven

Funkfingers said:

Having said that, in my late Twenties, I derived great enjoyment from Nomad Axxeman rack.

Ahhh, one of my all-time faves. You can never have too many of these...

impmann

Am I the only one that looks at brass hardware'd guitars and thinks "niiiiiccce" (other than @HarrySeven obvs)? I'd love another Odyssey guitar, or similar. In fact, I just missed out on one... dammit.

I think we'll look back at our current fashions for making everything look like it was made when Baby Boomers were little and find that rather quaint. The chunky neck guitars will all have been sent to luthiers to be slimmed down to a more manageable size and those fuck-horrible colour x over colour y relic guitars will all have been refinished in solid colours (with much rejoicing). Modelling amps will have all gone pop, with no spares to fix them. The glut of overdrive pedals made by 'boutique' companies will have been recycled into other 'boutique' pedals, as folks find that its the only source of Germanium devices left on planet earth (much like certain folks are hoovering up old Roberts radios for the hard-to-find transistors they contain and passing them off as NOS...you never heard that from me, folks). Drummers will still be brunt of all mirth. And bass players will still have chips on their shoulders about missing two strings - yet get all the girls.

So not a lot of change really...

guitars4you

earwighoney said:

guitars4you said:

HarrySeven said:

I think it’s a really interesting question.

From my own perspective, technology in the ‘80’s promised a radical new world - just look at the Roland GR-700/G-707, Stepp DG-1, SynthAxe, Bond Electraglide, fridge-sized rack systems for those uber-processed tones, Floyds on everything, blahblahblah.

Although (some of) the core ideas behind the above have survived and evolved, that promised techno-revolution never *quite* materialised/swept away those boring old Strats and Les Pauls...

 Looking back at certain guitar trends that were tech based - Was it the late 80's, even early 90's when the Ada MP1 or the Marshall JMP1, or the Marshall 9000 models, sat at the heart of many 19" rack assemblies - With the TC2290, Quadraverb, Korg SDD3000 etc etc - If you had the funds what about the Mesa Boogie Quad and Studio pre-amps and the huge + expensive Boogie power amp (can't recall's it name) - Then the Boogie Tri-axis followed for guys who liked rich toys

IMO, those kind of complex midi switching effects etc set ups have been replaced by Kemper, Axe-FX.

Agree that the separate rack unit format has now been placed in an all singing' all dancin' box

guitars4you

ICBM said:

guitars4you said:

And let's not forget the Tom Scholz Rockman 

I almost had before you said that!!

  

Got me thinking now - Was it Arion who did a Jap style copy and I think with a cassette with it, that loaded on the front, for jamming etc ?????? - Something like a Hot Watt ????????????????????? 

I suppose these then led to the Korg Pandora etc etc

guitars4you

Funkfingers said:

guitars4you said:

And let's not forget the Tom Scholz Rockman 

I remember trying the rack version of that at Allbang & Strummit. Not having the money for the two original half width modules, I asked to test the pre-amp/compression section on its own. i.e. With the chorus/delay bypassed. Man, did it sound small.

Having said that, in my late Twenties, I derived great enjoyment from Nomad Axxeman rack. It recorded nicely to four track cassette. With the benefit of hindsight, I suspect that part of what I liked about the sound was due to dbx™ compansion and deliberate tape saturation.

Forgot how many different 1/2 rack options that were offered in the range - I recall stocking them, but can't recall selling any/many - I mainly sold the traditional Rockman and the later Rockman Soloist that followed

Philly_Q

guitars4you said:

ICBM said:

guitars4you said:

And let's not forget the Tom Scholz Rockman 

I almost had before you said that!!

  

Got me thinking now - Was it Arion who did a Jap style copy and I think with a cassette with it, that loaded on the front, for jamming etc ?????? - Something like a Hot Watt ????????????????????? 

I suppose these then led to the Korg Pandora etc etc

I had - might still have - a thing called a Tokai Magical Box, which was a poor copy of the Rockman.  No cassette player or anything, that may indeed have been the Arion.  In  fact mine's not even the Tokai, but the same thing under a different brand name.  Can't remember the name, something like Onkyo or Oisho or maybe something else entirely.

I also had a JHS Rockbox, another clunky-looking headphone amp thing.

professorben

guitars4you said:

HarrySeven said:

I think it’s a really interesting question.

From my own perspective, technology in the ‘80’s promised a radical new world - just look at the Roland GR-700/G-707, Stepp DG-1, SynthAxe, Bond Electraglide, fridge-sized rack systems for those uber-processed tones, Floyds on everything, blahblahblah.

Although (some of) the core ideas behind the above have survived and evolved, that promised techno-revolution never *quite* materialised/swept away those boring old Strats and Les Pauls...

Looking back at certain guitar trends that were tech based - Was it the late 80's, even early 90's when the Ada MP1 or the Marshall JMP1, or the Marshall 9000 models, sat at the heart of many 19" rack assemblies - With the TC2290, Quadraverb, Korg SDD3000 etc etc - If you had the funds what about the Mesa Boogie Quad and Studio pre-amps and the huge + expensive Boogie power amp (can't recall's it name) - Then the Boogie Tri-axis followed for guys who liked rich toys

Then add midi mapping and various floor boards switching options etc  to run the above

Trying to recall the name/brand - Competitor to the Alesis Quadraverb - Not Dod/Digitech - Still 19" rack etc - Just found it - Art

Then an all singing all dancing 19" rack by Nobel - can't remember the name/model - recall a bright pink/purple frontage

Then in the 80's add the Gallien Krueger stereo combo - Almost an early version of the current Yamaha THD models - And let's not forget the Tom Scholz Rockman 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/E4cXj7nQTdnbPora8

You mean these? The 50/50 power amp, precursor to the 2:90 type power amps. 

I had this set up about 3 years so and I have to say it sounded bloody fantastic, just weighed a lot. 

professorben

impmann said:

Am I the only one that looks at brass hardware'd guitars and thinks "niiiiiccce" (other than @HarrySeven obvs)? I'd love another Odyssey guitar, or similar. In fact, I just missed out on one... dammit.

I think we'll look back at our current fashions for making everything look like it was made when Baby Boomers were little and find that rather quaint. The chunky neck guitars will all have been sent to luthiers to be slimmed down to a more manageable size and those fuck-horrible colour x over colour y relic guitars will all have been refinished in solid colours (with much rejoicing). Modelling amps will have all gone pop, with no spares to fix them. The glut of overdrive pedals made by 'boutique' companies will have been recycled into other 'boutique' pedals, as folks find that its the only source of Germanium devices left on planet earth (much like certain folks are hoovering up old Roberts radios for the hard-to-find transistors they contain and passing them off as NOS...you never heard that from me, folks). Drummers will still be brunt of all mirth. And bass players will still have chips on their shoulders about missing two strings - yet get all the girls.

So not a lot of change really...

With you on most of that. 

Just the modelling going pop and bassist’s getting the girls you are so so incredibly wrong about. 

HarrySeven

guitars4you said:

Now, if ever there was a piece of kit right at the top of my wants list...this is it! I missed an opportunity
to acquire a system some years ago and I’ve always regretted it...

EricTheWeary

Philly_Q said:

guitars4you said:

ICBM said:

guitars4you said:

And let's not forget the Tom Scholz Rockman 

I almost had before you said that!!

  

Got me thinking now - Was it Arion who did a Jap style copy and I think with a cassette with it, that loaded on the front, for jamming etc ?????? - Something like a Hot Watt ????????????????????? 

I suppose these then led to the Korg Pandora etc etc

I had - might still have - a thing called a Tokai Magical Box, which was a poor copy of the Rockman.  No cassette player or anything, that may indeed have been the Arion.  In  fact mine's not even the Tokai, but the same thing under a different brand name.  Can't remember the name, something like Onkyo or Oisho or maybe something else entirely.

I also had a JHS Rockbox, another clunky-looking headphone amp thing.

I had the bass version of the JHS ( Bassbox?). No idea what ever became of it. 

ICBM

I had a JHS Rockbox at one point too... awful thing, when it broke I stripped it for parts rather than try to fix it.

I also had a Zoom 9002. All the tone!

Er....

guitars4you

Philly_Q said:

guitars4you said:

ICBM said:

guitars4you said:

And let's not forget the Tom Scholz Rockman 

I almost had before you said that!!

  

Got me thinking now - Was it Arion who did a Jap style copy and I think with a cassette with it, that loaded on the front, for jamming etc ?????? - Something like a Hot Watt ????????????????????? 

I suppose these then led to the Korg Pandora etc etc

I had - might still have - a thing called a Tokai Magical Box, which was a poor copy of the Rockman.  No cassette player or anything, that may indeed have been the Arion.  In  fact mine's not even the Tokai, but the same thing under a different brand name.  Can't remember the name, something like Onkyo or Oisho or maybe something else entirely.

I also had a JHS Rockbox, another clunky-looking headphone amp thing.

Can't recall the Tokai Magical Box - Now you mention it I can recall the JHS Rockbox - Amazing what FB throws up from the past

guitars4you

HarrySeven said:

guitars4you said:

Now, if ever there was a piece of kit right at the top of my wants list...this is it! I missed an opportunity
to acquire a system some years ago and I’ve always regretted it...

You should have said - My mate Dixie who you know via the Crewe Show was the UK distributor for these back in the day

Funkfingers

EricTheWeary said:

Philly_Q said:

I also had a JHS Rockbox, another clunky-looking headphone amp thing.

I had the bass version of the JHS ( Bassbox?). No idea what ever became of it. 

1) Some of the controls became intermittently non-functioning.
2) The battery compartment cover went AWOL.
3) The device was consigned to either a box in your attic or the waste bin.

ICBM

Funkfingers said:

1) Some of the controls became intermittently non-functioning.

2) The battery compartment cover went AWOL.
3) The device was consigned to either a box in your attic or the waste bin.

4) Several original 1980s JRC4558Ds were spotted inside and removed for use in TS9 upgrades .

Funkfingers

Canny as a Campbell-Maynard.

thegummy

professorben said:

“They really thought the species of wood affected the tone?”

lol that guy on this forum who's always speaking out against tone woods will be seen as the Charles Darwin figure