What were they thinking?

thegummy

guitars4you said:

As to what will be popular and not then who knows

EVH helped to give birth to the F Rose supa Strat

Slash helped to revise interest in the LP

J White helped to establish the cool, weird and wonderful

Trends come and go and I dare say somewhere today is a 16 year old kid, playing the guitar in his bedroom, that in 4-6 years time will be the next 'must have' and the flock will adjust accordingly, when he becomes a star

As guitars don't have any sell by date issues, with no new 'supa dupa' updated versions in the pipeline (iphone style) then I can't see the need for the big guitar companies to continually 'churn out' the same level of output as we have seen in the last 10-20-30 years - There is no shortage of quality, used, clean guitars on the market place today - Not an issue for today's buyers or indeed the buyers in 10/20 years time - But an issue for the manufacturing business

What will be the WTF in 20 years time then who knows - Compared to say 20/30 years ago there is more of a varied selection of brands, models, trends than probably ever before, be it from the big companies or the boutique builders - 1959 etc might well be one of the glory years for some - But the options available for today's buyer has never been so varied, so much so that it is hard to clearly define what is popular and not popular 

I can actually envision there being no change in guitar fashion like those artists you mention inspired.

In the times those players were on the go, including Jack White, good rock music was still part of the mainstream, i.e. people in to rock music would have a fairly limited choice of releases and every rock fan would have heard Guns n Roses for example.

But these days it only seems to be the cheesy image-based pop that has stayed in the mainstream and all other music styles are more independent. Rather than a handful of bands selling millions of records to everyone and all the smaller bands having little to no distribution, the internet gives loads of artists more equal attention. So instead of there being a few bands that everyone is in to, there are tons of bands being enjoyed by smaller groups of people so I don't think there will be any single guitar idols that change the fashion. It'll be more Youtube players that people look up to and given that Youtubers have a tendency to all copy each other and homogenize, I can totally see the fashion for guitars being as it is right now really.

Something I can see happening is digital modelling amps completely taking over. To the point where a real amp would only be used for the novelty, sort of how someone might make a Youtube video now of them recording directly to wax cylinder.

So in the future "Marshall", "Fender", "Vox" etc. will just describe flavours of guitar sounds and young people might never have actually plugged in to one of them. Like now when kids type up a document and click the icon that they know means "save" without having any idea that it's a picture of a floppy disk that we used to carry around and have to put in to the computer.

p90fool

Some of you must be real whippersnappers, to a lot of us 20 years is the blink of an eye. 

There will be bugger all difference, I was gigging with valve amps, classic guitar designs and slightly unconvincing but convenient digital effects in 1999, as we all still are. 

soma1975

The idea that Pearl Jam's 'Ten' was released 28 years ago is a shocker. Feels like yesterday.

ICBM

I can certainly see valve amps becoming an extremely niche thing for enthusiasts only - like film photography is now, with the entire commercial market having gone digital. I’m honestly surprised that mass-produced valve amps are even being made now.

soma1975

Film photography isn't niche tbf. It's not used as much in the amateur world and the amateur photography world has exploded because of camera phones. But every professional photographer I know that does work above the events/weddings level still shoots on film as and when they can. Likewise still lots of big movies being shot on film. To cut a long story short, despite all the perceived benefits of digital imaging (or digital amplifier-ing) when the main consideration is outright quality or the perceived qualities that film or valves can give there's currently no substitute. 

I think we are still decades away from people who are afforded the luxury to stop playing valve amps live. 

p90fool

ICBM said:

I can certainly see valve amps becoming an extremely niche thing for enthusiasts only - like film photography is now, with the entire commercial market having gone digital. I’m honestly surprised that mass-produced valve amps are even being made now.

I don't think it's a valid comparison tbh. 

Digital photography is like digital recording in that it revolutionised not only what was possible, but brought it into the home market. Not having to wait a week for Boots to print your pictures, or to have to spend the price of a small car to go into a recording studio is key. 

Traditional photography for most people was the equivalent of owning an electric guitar, but only being allowed to hire an amp once a week.

Environmental factors will kill off valve amps, but for the time being, they're cheap, serviceable, reliable and long lasting. 

Digital amps are awesome, but we don't NEED them to be independently productive, like we needed Cubase or Photoshop.  

guitars4you

ICBM said:

I can certainly see valve amps becoming an extremely niche thing for enthusiasts only - like film photography is now, with the entire commercial market having gone digital. I’m honestly surprised that mass-produced valve amps are even being made now.

I was told that 4x12 Marshall sales are now nearly non existent - I was chatting with a customer about this and he said that many stores he has been in recently, don't even have a 4x12 in stock any more 

I know not all valve amp sales are about a head + 4x12 - But agree the 'boutique' side of valve amps will continue, as per the hi-fi trade etc, and probably far less 'mass production' valve amps - I know of a few 'discerning' die hard valve amp customers who now gig with a Boss Katana as they are far more practical and sound pretty good

ICBM

p90fool said:

I don't think it's a valid comparison tbh. 

Digital photography is like digital recording in that it revolutionised not only what was possible, but brought it into the home market. Not having to wait a week for Boots to print your pictures, or to have to spend the price of a small car to go into a recording studio is key. 

Traditional photography for most people was the equivalent of owning an electric guitar, but only being allowed to hire an amp once a week.

Environmental factors will kill off valve amps, but for the time being, they're cheap, serviceable, reliable and long lasting. 

Digital amps are awesome, but we don't NEED them to be independently productive, like we needed Cubase or Photoshop.

I think it is a fair comparison - the great thing about digital amps for most users is that they don't need to be cranked up loud to get the characteristic sounds, and you can have access to dozens of 'vintage amps' in one small and convenient box, so in that sense they have definitely brought classic amps into the home market and expanded what you can do with them.

I don't disagree that a valve amp - or a decent analogue solid-state amp for that matter, which always seen to be overlooked - will usually sound better in a band situation, but how many guitar players even gig nowadays? Less than you may think... and for many, cranking up an amp at home simply isn't an option, so they are only really usable by booking into a rehearsal studio.

I certainly don't disagree that professionals and serious amateurs will still continue to use valves, and there will probably always be a market for vintage amps and small-builder modern ones, but I can see mass-produced commercial valve amps and even valves disappearing very quickly once there is a real step change in either the technology or the user base for digital, just as happened with TV/monitors - there are no commercial CRTs being made now as far as I know. I thought it would happen in the 1990s and I was wrong - but only because a few factories in former Communist countries carried on, largely because their consumer and military technology was stuck in the past - but it very nearly did, and for a few years it wasn't possible to get a reliable bulk supply of new EL34s, hence the '5881 era' of Marshalls.

downbytheriver

I’ve definitely still got one of these somewhere - most of them died because the battery died - still works on adaptor. If I had a battery, i would definitely give it a go again! This one is on Reverb for £300+ !

ICBM

downbytheriver said:

I’ve definitely still got one of these somewhere - most of them died because the battery died - still works on adaptor. If I had a battery, i would definitely give it a go again! This one is on Reverb for £300+ !

Mine wasn't the 'Pro', and yes the battery did die... which destroyed its usefulness to me since I used it as originally intended, mounted on the guitar strap for very small open-mic-type gigs where I didn't want a multi-FX with a power supply. It was the very first thing I sold on a new online selling site which had recently started up called 'E-Bay' . I think I got £60 for it.

soma1975

Man, I remember when my mate got a Zoom 9002. We were so excited and then it was just wasp in a bee can distortion and some truly awful sounds. 

skullfunkerry

maltingsaudio said:

Valves will be totally unavailable and we’ll be wondering why all the marshalls etc we still have do t sound like they used to!

You've beaten me to it. I was going to say 'Presumably we'll look back on valve amps and gaze with awe at those of us who still have or can afford valves'

guitars4you

I recall the first death of the valve amp - Mid/late 70's when the likes of HH with the IC100 produced the slim line tranny amp that required little maintenance - It got to the stage that we ended up with to many 'unsaleable trade ins' regarding the likes of AC30's, JTM 45's JMP50's and JMP100's - Hard to believe now but we had a job to sell any of these 'bulky' undesirable valve amps' - Irony later followed when the 'valve amp killers' like HH, Carlsbro and Peavey effectively have disappeared or seriously faded from their peak

However there has been a serious advance in the tonal quality and versatility of the digital modelling amp' that is available today - I tend to agree that the days of the more affordable 'production' valve amps are fading - But I do agree that the 'boutique' end of the valve market will continue as a cottage industry for those who require it 

Regarding vintage used amps it is already a specialist market place - Technically illegal for dealers to sell such amps today without a pat test and those round bulgin mains plugs - Okay to sell them privately etc without such legal issues - But the cost of a good re-build, overall etc  ensures it is barely commercially viable for dealers to buy and trade, then sell such amps in a good working order, coupled with any warranty that is required to be included within the sale price - Fine if you are a good tech yourself, to buy such an old amp, then can carry out your own DIY work - Fine if you want to pay the cost of a good service for  the amp, then keep it for your own use - There are a few good amp repair guys around, many on FB, but the days appear to have gone when most 'local' stores had access to a decent amp tech at an affordable hourly work rate

Even amps like say a Peavey Bandit 65 are an issue for dealers - Probably the best selling compact tranny amp from the 80's and 90's  - But legally a dealer has to sell it with a pat test and a warranty - The trade price would have to be peanuts, to allow for any check-up, pat test, service as required, by the dealer in order to sell for well under £100 - Effectively for the dealer they have practically became unsaleable

HarrySeven

downbytheriver said:

I’ve definitely still got one of these somewhere - most of them died because the battery died - still works on adaptor. If I had a battery, i would definitely give it a go again! This one is on Reverb for £300+ !

Reverb = Speculative-Pricing W*nker Paradise.

*rolleyes*

Funkfingers

guitars4you said:

Irony later followed when the 'valve amp killers' like HH ... have disappeared 

Nobody on this forum will be surprised to learn that almost all of the IC100s have disappeared to a storage facility in Staffordshire, in one of the outlying warehouses of Lord Seven's country estate.

Lewy

I'd like to think that people will look back and see that weird over-articulation of every single phrase (i.e. playing a three note phrase with seven slides and four hammers/pulls)  that is the foundation of Instagram guitar-heroism as being ridiculously unmusical....but I'm not holding out much hope.

guitars4you

Funkfingers said:

guitars4you said:

Irony later followed when the 'valve amp killers' like HH ... have disappeared 

Nobody on this forum will be surprised to learn that almost all of the IC100s have disappeared to a storage facility in Staffordshire, in one of the outlying warehouses of Lord Seven's country estate.

Had to read that twice to see what you meant and then awarded you a LOL

I bet he has none with that 'mushroom' footswitch still intact - Surely they all broke and have been replaced with a regular DPDT pedal switch - see below

I wonder if he has a HH Clockwork Concubine for the VS Musician

Then what about the HH Performer series with plug in modules - maybe somewhat a head of its day - But that range flopped and with such heavy R&D costs it started the downfall of HH

professorben

HarrySeven said:

downbytheriver said:

I’ve definitely still got one of these somewhere - most of them died because the battery died - still works on adaptor. If I had a battery, i would definitely give it a go again! This one is on Reverb for £300+ !

Reverb = Speculative-Pricing W*nker Paradise.

*rolleyes*

On that note. 

Reverb, a wildly pointless platform specifically home to the chancers and low ballers that feel eBay is too high brow. 

Oh and only 17 people are actually using it. 

earwighoney

Lewy said:

I'd like to think that people will look back and see that weird over-articulation of every single phrase (i.e. playing a three note phrase with seven slides and four hammers/pulls)  that is the foundation of Instagram guitar-heroism as being ridiculously unmusical....but I'm not holding out much hope.

Agree.  

There are a couple of bands/guitarists who are incredibly well regarded here on this forum who have incredibly impressive/flashy 'licks' but don't seem to use that to build it into a decent or interesting composition.  

Funkfingers

guitars4you said:

Had to read that twice to see what you meant

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to comprehend. (This appears to be beyond the ken of some forumites.)