Alcohol and playing

professorben

thegummy said:

Seems to be that old chestnut of taking everything under the umbrella of "drugs" and treating it as if it's all the same.

No one ever ODed or threw their life away by being addicted to weed.

Surely no one has actually believed that for decades.

Weed can destroy lives the same as any other drug, alcohol, food gambling etc. 

to think otherwise is incredibly naive. 

professorben

thegummy said:

octatonic said:

thegummy said:

octatonic said:

thegummy said:

Seems to be that old chestnut of taking everything under the umbrella of "drugs" and treating it as if it's all the same.

No one ever ODed or threw their life away by being addicted to weed.

Surely no one has actually believed that for decades.

I'm not saying they were.
You brought up weed.
This thread started in a discussion about alcohol.
I only made the point that working pro musicians can't be high or drunk on stage.

My personal opinion is weed is less harmful, certainly less than alcohol.
I don't think it improves creativity though, certainly not the habitual use of it.

What are either of those based on though?

I mean, with wedding bands I wouldn't be surprised if they were less likely to smoke weed than other musicians purely because the type of person who would want to set up a small business booking weddings to cover the classic hits (and usually are older people) are just the type who are less likely to smoke weed whereas the type of person who does smoke weed is more likely to want to be an original artist where they can express their creativity.

Wedding bands are hardly the pinnacle of music though, very far from it. I don't know why you think that no top level session players smoke weed. Why is it you think that? How would it make sense that named artists can smoke weed and still play very well but if they're a hired session player they wouldn't be able to?

And why do you think that weed doesn't improve creativity? Is that based on you smoking it and not feeling your creativity was enhanced? So many of the greatest musicians of all time have expressed that they do believe it does.

Do you think more great albums were made by people who were completely sober at the time than were made by people who were smoking weed or on other drugs at the time?

Again, you are putting words in my mouth.
I didn't say no top session players smoke weed, I said that doing so on stage will get you fired.

Loads of musicians use substances and drink, like the rest of society.
It happens after the gig, in almost all cases.

But being a professional musician now is not like being a professional musician in the 60's and 70's.
Very few musicians now can get away with being drunk or stoned whilst performing.
I know this because I've worked in the industry since the early 90's and I've seen how things have changed.

If it's just based on your own experience then who are you working with? I mean what kinds of people, what level, what age etc.?

If you don't want to say that's understandable but do you not think what you see happening is a very tiny sample size compared to all professional musicians in the world?

You probably wouldn't know whether most people you played alongside were stoned or not anyway, most people who smoke regularly don't act like a film character who's meant to be stoned, they just look and act normal.

It's not like I'm saying that there are tons of musicians secretly playing stoned despite none admitting it - tons of musicians admit it openly! That's why I'm so puzzled you're claiming this, it's not a secret.

What about the creativity enhancing aspect - why do you not believe it enhances creativity when sooooo many people - including some all-time greats - feel that it does?

Have you smoked weed to any decent level? I suppose it can affect different people differently but I can't imagine anyone smoking it and not immediately understanding the enhanced creativity thing.

Just to clarify - I'm not saying weed enhances the performance ability (just the creative) but I am saying that it doesn't detract from it and certainly not to the point where the person is no longer able to play properly. I don't agree that it's more difficult to play music now either unless you're referring to some niche genres that focus on virtuosity.

Are you for real???

weed doesn’t detract from performance ability?!?!


Utter bullshit, you like weed, we get that, good for you. 

But just because you can’t see how it impairs yours or others abilities does not mean it doesn’t. 

Which it does, otherwise driving under the influence wouldn’t be a crime would it? 

skullfunkerry

thegummy said:

Have you smoked weed to any decent level? I suppose it can affect different people differently but I can't imagine anyone smoking it and not immediately understanding the enhanced creativity thing.

Just to clarify - I'm not saying weed enhances the performance ability (just the creative) but I am saying that it doesn't detract from it and certainly not to the point where the person is no longer able to play properly. I don't agree that it's more difficult to play music now either unless you're referring to some niche genres that focus on virtuosity.

It doesn't enhance my creativity. Every single time I've tried it I've whited out & been too busy being sick or going to bed to be creative 

Vibetronic

professorben said:

thegummy said:

Seems to be that old chestnut of taking everything under the umbrella of "drugs" and treating it as if it's all the same.

No one ever ODed or threw their life away by being addicted to weed.

Surely no one has actually believed that for decades.

Weed can destroy lives the same as any other drug, alcohol, food gambling etc. 

to think otherwise is incredibly naive. 

+1. No substance before a gig is going to help you play better...and you should get enough of a natural high doing it to make you play better anyway. If you're nervous about going onstage then make sure you practice enough so you have nothing to be nervous about!

thegummy

professorben said:

thegummy said:

Seems to be that old chestnut of taking everything under the umbrella of "drugs" and treating it as if it's all the same.

No one ever ODed or threw their life away by being addicted to weed.

Surely no one has actually believed that for decades.

Weed can destroy lives the same as any other drug, alcohol, food gambling etc. 

to think otherwise is incredibly naive. 

Maybe in the way that something like computer games can destroy lives if someone gets so obsessed with something that they neglect other aspects of life.

Definitely not in the same way as alcohol or some other drugs like heroin. It's been quite some time since any reasonable person has entertained the idea that it does.

professorben said:

Are you for real???

weed doesn’t detract from performance ability?!?!


Utter bullshit, you like weed, we get that, good for you. 

But just because you can’t see how it impairs yours or others abilities does not mean it doesn’t. 

Which it does, otherwise driving under the influence wouldn’t be a crime would it? 

Firstly, you obviously haven't paid much attention to what I've said in this thread - I haven't touched it for over 7 years so it's nothing to do with me liking it.

And I've already made the point that so many great guitar players have played amazingly while stoned. Do you think they would be even better if they hadn't smoked weed before it? 

Your last point is just ridiculous, as if someone passing a law in this country is evidence of anything. So it only started detracting when that law was passed, it didn't before that? It doesn't detract in other countries that don't have that law? Not that playing the guitar is comparable to driving anyway, I've never had to suddenly react quickly to a hazard while playing a guitar.

But these other points don't even matter - it's as simple as pointing to the fact that it's pretty much universally known that many (not just a small handful) of the greatest musicians over the years have very openly smoked a lot of weed while playing that great music.

There's nothing really more to be said on the weed issue, it's just so obvious. Some people are anti-drugs and will try to make claims but if they were right there would be loads of teetotal musicians who rose above the weed smokers, the latter of whom people would comment on saying "they had so much potential, if only they stopped smoking weed". But as we know, that's not the case at all.

Unfortunately there are quite a few people who are in my position of having taken a lot of drink/drugs in the past and have now stopped and they have to tell themselves that the drugs were all bad, that there was no upside, to fight the temptation of going back on them. I'm not suggesting that's true for anyone on this forum. I take a more realistic approach and am secure in my decision not to take them while also acknowledging that some drugs have benefits as well as pitfalls.

thegummy

skullfunkerry said:

thegummy said:

Have you smoked weed to any decent level? I suppose it can affect different people differently but I can't imagine anyone smoking it and not immediately understanding the enhanced creativity thing.

Just to clarify - I'm not saying weed enhances the performance ability (just the creative) but I am saying that it doesn't detract from it and certainly not to the point where the person is no longer able to play properly. I don't agree that it's more difficult to play music now either unless you're referring to some niche genres that focus on virtuosity.

It doesn't enhance my creativity. Every single time I've tried it I've whited out & been too busy being sick or going to bed to be creative 

Were you drinking alcohol as well at the time? Wouldn't advise that to anyone who wasn't a seasoned smoker (though often that's the only time they'd try it if they were already a bit tipsy), definitely can cause that horrible feeling. I actually used to love the combination but I think you need to be used to it.

If you weren't drinking you must have taken too much. But looking at the way I worded that, I'm not sure if someone who never smokes would really get the benefit of an enhanced songwriting session, they might be too freaked out or even just distracted by the unusual feelings. I think it's more of a case that once someone's used to it, the same thing that causes the freakouts (i.e. a rapid rollercoaster of thoughts) is what helps with the creativity.

Or maybe some people just don't get that aspect of it like many do. I'm certainly not encouraging anyone here to try it.

thegummy

Vibetronic said:

professorben said:

thegummy said:

Seems to be that old chestnut of taking everything under the umbrella of "drugs" and treating it as if it's all the same.

No one ever ODed or threw their life away by being addicted to weed.

Surely no one has actually believed that for decades.

Weed can destroy lives the same as any other drug, alcohol, food gambling etc. 

to think otherwise is incredibly naive. 

+1. No substance before a gig is going to help you play better...and you should get enough of a natural high doing it to make you play better anyway. If you're nervous about going onstage then make sure you practice enough so you have nothing to be nervous about!

Do you believe that performance enhancing drugs are a complete myth or just that none of them translate to guitar playing?

Vibetronic

thegummy said:

Vibetronic said:

professorben said:

thegummy said:

Seems to be that old chestnut of taking everything under the umbrella of "drugs" and treating it as if it's all the same.

No one ever ODed or threw their life away by being addicted to weed.

Surely no one has actually believed that for decades.

Weed can destroy lives the same as any other drug, alcohol, food gambling etc. 

to think otherwise is incredibly naive. 

+1. No substance before a gig is going to help you play better...and you should get enough of a natural high doing it to make you play better anyway. If you're nervous about going onstage then make sure you practice enough so you have nothing to be nervous about!

Do you believe that performance enhancing drugs are a complete myth or just that none of them translate to guitar playing?

I just think it's silly and (personally) I don't need a chemical boost to help me play, or to play better. If it works for you then great, it's just my opinion that it's not really a great idea.

skullfunkerry

thegummy said:

skullfunkerry said:

thegummy said:

Have you smoked weed to any decent level? I suppose it can affect different people differently but I can't imagine anyone smoking it and not immediately understanding the enhanced creativity thing.

Just to clarify - I'm not saying weed enhances the performance ability (just the creative) but I am saying that it doesn't detract from it and certainly not to the point where the person is no longer able to play properly. I don't agree that it's more difficult to play music now either unless you're referring to some niche genres that focus on virtuosity.

It doesn't enhance my creativity. Every single time I've tried it I've whited out & been too busy being sick or going to bed to be creative 

Were you drinking alcohol as well at the time? Wouldn't advise that to anyone who wasn't a seasoned smoker (though often that's the only time they'd try it if they were already a bit tipsy), definitely can cause that horrible feeling. I actually used to love the combination but I think you need to be used to it.

If you weren't drinking you must have taken too much. But looking at the way I worded that, I'm not sure if someone who never smokes would really get the benefit of an enhanced songwriting session, they might be too freaked out or even just distracted by the unusual feelings. I think it's more of a case that once someone's used to it, the same thing that causes the freakouts (i.e. a rapid rollercoaster of thoughts) is what helps with the creativity.

Or maybe some people just don't get that aspect of it like many do. I'm certainly not encouraging anyone here to try it.

No booze... and once it was literally the first couple of puffs and I was done. Anyway, I know that some people like it, I'm down with that. No agenda here, feel free to enjoy yourself however you like

thegummy

skullfunkerry said:

No booze... and once it was literally the first couple of puffs and I was done. Anyway, I know that some people like it, I'm down with that. No agenda here, feel free to enjoy yourself however you like

Good attitude but unfortunately for me the sauce is a no-go - one drink and I could be away with the fairies!

Might go back on the weed when I retire or something but Mr. Booze is out of the question. To be honest the only time that ever bothers me is missing out on the taste of some drinks but it's a worthwhile sacrifice.

professorben

thegummy said:

Vibetronic said:

professorben said:

thegummy said:

Seems to be that old chestnut of taking everything under the umbrella of "drugs" and treating it as if it's all the same.

No one ever ODed or threw their life away by being addicted to weed.

Surely no one has actually believed that for decades.

Weed can destroy lives the same as any other drug, alcohol, food gambling etc. 

to think otherwise is incredibly naive. 

+1. No substance before a gig is going to help you play better...and you should get enough of a natural high doing it to make you play better anyway. If you're nervous about going onstage then make sure you practice enough so you have nothing to be nervous about!

Do you believe that performance enhancing drugs are a complete myth or just that none of them translate to guitar playing?

You just suggested weed is a performance enhancing drug. 

I’m pissing myself laughing at you now. 

gringopig

.

Philly_Q

thegummy said:
Have you smoked weed to any decent level?

East Berkshire League Division Three.

octatonic

Philly_Q said:

thegummy said:
Have you smoked weed to any decent level?

East Berkshire League Division Three.

I was tempted to respond with 'I smoked weed for Australia in the 1992 Olympics' but thought better of it.

LastMantra

Why do people get so worked up about this? Artists, poets, musicians, whatever, have been using mind altering substances for hundreds, if not thousands, of years.

octatonic

I don't see anyone getting worked up.
It is a peaceful discussion.

thegummy

professorben said:

thegummy said:

Vibetronic said:

professorben said:

thegummy said:

Seems to be that old chestnut of taking everything under the umbrella of "drugs" and treating it as if it's all the same.

No one ever ODed or threw their life away by being addicted to weed.

Surely no one has actually believed that for decades.

Weed can destroy lives the same as any other drug, alcohol, food gambling etc. 

to think otherwise is incredibly naive. 

+1. No substance before a gig is going to help you play better...and you should get enough of a natural high doing it to make you play better anyway. If you're nervous about going onstage then make sure you practice enough so you have nothing to be nervous about!

Do you believe that performance enhancing drugs are a complete myth or just that none of them translate to guitar playing?

You just suggested weed is a performance enhancing drug. 

I’m pissing myself laughing at you now. 

No I didn't. You obviously have a problem understanding words.

professorben

thegummy said:

professorben said:

thegummy said:

Vibetronic said:

professorben said:

thegummy said:

Seems to be that old chestnut of taking everything under the umbrella of "drugs" and treating it as if it's all the same.

No one ever ODed or threw their life away by being addicted to weed.

Surely no one has actually believed that for decades.

Weed can destroy lives the same as any other drug, alcohol, food gambling etc. 

to think otherwise is incredibly naive. 

+1. No substance before a gig is going to help you play better...and you should get enough of a natural high doing it to make you play better anyway. If you're nervous about going onstage then make sure you practice enough so you have nothing to be nervous about!

Do you believe that performance enhancing drugs are a complete myth or just that none of them translate to guitar playing?

You just suggested weed is a performance enhancing drug. 

I’m pissing myself laughing at you now. 

No I didn't. You obviously have a problem understanding words.

That’s true, I’m quite stoned so my abilities to converse, articulate or perform tasks involving fine motor control are seriously impaired. 

thegummy

professorben said:

That’s true, I’m quite stoned so my abilities to converse, articulate or perform tasks involving fine motor control are seriously impaired. 

Please stop. You've made a fool of yourself and you're not adding any points to the discussion, just being obnoxious.

I'll just block you if you continue with the nonsense so you'll just be annoying everyone else.

professorben

thegummy said:

professorben said:

That’s true, I’m quite stoned so my abilities to converse, articulate or perform tasks involving fine motor control are seriously impaired. 

Please stop. You've made a fool of yourself and you're not adding any points to the discussion, just being obnoxious.

I'll just block you if you continue with the nonsense so you'll just be annoying everyone else.

Oh I’m really so ever so so so sorry.