We've not had a Mourinho-out thread ...

TTony

Dodge said:

It was a knee-jerk reaction to sack Pochettino - this is just history repeating itself.

Not really.

Poch was sacked because he & Levy had been arguing for some time about transfers - budgets, Poch's authority in deciding on players, etc.  Hence his various comments about "call me coach, not manager".  That came to a head post CL final and Spurs' poor start the following season (needed to freshen the squad, but couldn't).

Moany is sacked because he's now done what he does best - split the Dressing Room.  (Apparently, half the squad wanted him gone at the end of the season, the other half didn't want to wait that long).

Would Spurs have won the Carabao Cup with Moany in charge?  Does it matter?  It's the "Carabao Cup".  It's the runners-up, runners-up, runners-up, runners-up prize.  Who cares!  He managed to get booted out of the Europa league, has been dismal in the league, and has started doing his usual "not me, it's them" interviews.  Time to go.

I expected him to get sacked *after* losing the Cup final rather than before.  But I'm just pleased he's gone.

When I heard Poch had been sacked, I thought things couldn't get worse.  Then I heard Moany had been appointed, which proved that they could.  

scrumhalf

Poch and Maureen were sacked for the same reason, results were poor. Under Poch we did okay in the Champions League but our Prem form was bloody awful. Maureen just extended this a bit by making us bloody awful if there was a "y" in the day.

TTony

scrumhalf said:

Under Poch we did okay in the Champions League but our Prem form was bloody awful. 

You don't finish 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th with bloody awful form.  

His final season wasn't looking so good, but then there'd been no investment at all in the squad for the preceding 3 (?) transfer windows.

CL final was an over-achievement, based on some ridiculous team performances.  The team hasn't demonstrated anything like the same commitment and belief for many many months now ...

proggy

Dodge said:

I'm not a Mourinho or Spurs fan, but sacking a manager so close to a cup final is madness.

I think their results and place in the table is completly appropriate for the quality of the squad.  Other than Kane and Son, I can't see anyone else in the squad who'd get into another of the other top sides.

It was a knee-jerk reaction to sack Pochettino - this is just history repeating itself.

I don't quite agree with that.
Being a lifelong Gooner, it pains me to say it but - Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg is pure class, worthy of a place in any top team in world football.
Just a bloody shame he chose that one.

axisus

He's well past his sell-by date. The world of football moved on and he didn't. 

scrumhalf

Best of luck to Ryan Mason. 

Teetonetal

Very pleased to see him go, I think he has just lost his way, or not adapted and had been in slow decline ever since his 2nd Chelsea spell went sour.

There is some good talent in that squad, and with attacking stars like Kane & Son you always have a chance for top 4, but the team just looks miserable these days.

Dodge

TTony said:

Dodge said:

It was a knee-jerk reaction to sack Pochettino - this is just history repeating itself.

Not really.

Poch was sacked because he & Levy had been arguing for some time about transfers - budgets, Poch's authority in deciding on players, etc.  Hence his various comments about "call me coach, not manager".  That came to a head post CL final and Spurs' poor start the following season (needed to freshen the squad, but couldn't).

Moany is sacked because he's now done what he does best - split the Dressing Room.  (Apparently, half the squad wanted him gone at the end of the season, the other half didn't want to wait that long).

Villas Boas - best win % for any Spurs manager in the Premier League.  Sacked for being 7th.

Poch - second best win % for any Spurs manager in the Premier League.  Sacked for being 14th deepite it being very early in the season.  That team still finished 6th.

Jose - third best win % for any Spurs manager in the Premier League.  Sacked for being 7th.

Sopunds like history repeating itself to me.

TTony said:

Would Spurs have won the Carabao Cup with Moany in charge?  Does it matter?  It's the "Carabao Cup".  It's the runners-up, runners-up, runners-up, runners-up prize.  Who cares! 

It's still the League Cup, which is classed as a 'major honour' on the Spurs site.  I would have thought considering Spurs have won nothing since their last League Cup victory in 2008 you'd take it.  Before then it was the same trophy in 1999, the Charity Shield in 92 and the FA Cup in 91.  Hardly a trophy laden club is it?

But sacking the manager days before the one chance at a trophy this year is insane.  Like him or not (and I don't), Mourinho does deliver trophies - so there was a chance.  Giving a novice coach less than a week is really throwing him under a bus.

If Kane goes, I suspect mid-table will ne the new normal for Spurs.

proggy said:

Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg is pure class, worthy of a place in any top team in world football.

Actually, I'd forgotten about him.  He is pretty decent.

TTony

Dodge said:

TTony said:

Would Spurs have won the Carabao Cup with Moany in charge?  Does it matter?  It's the "Carabao Cup".  It's the runners-up, runners-up, runners-up, runners-up prize.  Who cares! 

It's still the League Cup, which is classed as a 'major honour' on the Spurs site.  I would have thought considering Spurs have won nothing since their last League Cup victory in 2008 you'd take it.  

No, not really.

The run to the CL final was more of an achievement than winning the whatever-it's-called-this-year-cup.  Not just the achievement of getting there to the CL final, but the excitement of the matches.  The matches against Man City and Ajax will  live much longer in the memory than a possible CCup win.  

And that is what football should be about (IMHO).  It's a game for entertainment.  I'd rather win games that ultimately didn't yield any "honour" but left such memories, rather than winning a meaningless competition that no-one much values.   The honour is in the style of play and providing the entertainment.

But then, I've been a Spurs fan for 50-odd years.  Winning competitions is an unexpected bonus  ....  

Who did Spurs beat in the last few rounds of the CCup?  I really don't remember, (apart from Brentford - but that's because they're my wife's family team) .  But I'll always remember the Man City & Ajax games ...

TTony

proggy said:

Being a lifelong Gooner, it pains me to say it but - Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg is pure class, worthy of a place in any top team in world football.
Just a bloody shame he chose that one.

@Proggy - that comment is one of those Wiz/LOL dilemmas!

Dodge

TTony said:

Dodge said:

TTony said:

Would Spurs have won the Carabao Cup with Moany in charge?  Does it matter?  It's the "Carabao Cup".  It's the runners-up, runners-up, runners-up, runners-up prize.  Who cares! 

It's still the League Cup, which is classed as a 'major honour' on the Spurs site.  I would have thought considering Spurs have won nothing since their last League Cup victory in 2008 you'd take it.  

No, not really.

The run to the CL final was more of an achievement than winning the whatever-it's-called-this-year-cup. 

I don't disagree with you, but that's not what I said.  If I had a team playing a League Cup final after winning nothing for such along time, I'd certainly care whether they won or lost.

TTony

Dodge said:

  If I had a team playing a League Cup final after winning nothing for such along time, I'd certainly care whether they won or lost.

It's not that I don't care - I care about most games.

But, in the hierarchy of caring, it's not a game that ranks particularly highly because I don't attribute huge importance to winning the Carabao Cup.  There have many games that didn't involve winning a  trinket that I cared about much more.

For example, I'd much prefer that we won every remaining PL game and got into the CL for next season (and - just as importantly, avoided the Europa League!) rather than winning the Carabao Cup.

Hattigol

TTony said:

For example, I'd much prefer that we won every remaining PL game and got into the CL for next season.

Tony, we need to sit you down for a chat about Father Christmas at some point...

StefB

Hattigol said:

TTony said:

For example, I'd much prefer that we won every remaining PL game and got into the CL for next season.

Tony, we need to sit you down for a chat about Father Christmas at some point...

Is he Spurs' new manager?

guitars4you

Hattigol said:

TTony said:

For example, I'd much prefer that we won every remaining PL game and got into the CL for next season.

Tony, we need to sit you down for a chat about Father Christmas at some point...

come on, Jose did enough to get Spurs into the new Super League  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dodge

TTony said:

Does it matter?  It's the "Carabao Cup".  It's the runners-up, runners-up, runners-up, runners-up prize.  Who cares! 

TTony said:

It's not that I don't care - I care about most games.

I see.  ;-)

TTony said:

For example, I'd much prefer that we won every remaining PL game and got into the CL for next season (and - just as importantly, avoided the Europa League!) rather than winning the Carabao Cup.

As would I, but that's not what I said.

If Spurs were my club and the League Cup was the only chance of silverware this season, I'd want to win it.  Sacking an experienced coach days before a final and replacing him with a novice reduces that chance (IMHO etc. etc.)

Anyway, I won't miss the arrogant obnoxious cockwomble.

How do you feel about Levy? 

proggy

TTony said:

proggy said:

Being a lifelong Gooner, it pains me to say it but - Pierre-Emile Hojbjerg is pure class, worthy of a place in any top team in world football.
Just a bloody shame he chose that one.

@Proggy - that comment is one of those Wiz/LOL dilemmas!

@TTony ; I'll take whatever you give me.

axisus

Dodge said:

If Spurs were my club and the League Cup was the only chance of silverware this season, I'd want to win it.  Sacking an experienced coach days before a final and replacing him with a novice reduces that chance (IMHO etc. etc.)

I'm not so sure. Mourinho plays such stifled, negative football. They have a better chance if they just cut loose.

Philly_Q

I find it interesting that they've made Ryan Mason caretaker, it only seems like five minutes ago that he had to stop playing.  I know Mourinho's whole backroom team have left with him, but Levy must rate Mason quite highly.

TTony

Dodge said:

How do you feel about Levy? 

I actually think he's done an incredible job - from a business perspective.

Establishing Spurs as a genuine Top 10/12 European club (in terms of revenue / value) and with the new stadium built, is quite an achievement given where they were when Sugar essentially saved the club from going bust - after several years of business failure and team failure.

At least, now, the business side seems to have been sorted out, and we've got a very stable business/club that isn't reliant on sovereign wealth funds, or rich Russians/Americans, for funding season after season.

The flip side of that is that maybe the football team would be in a better position if Poch had been given funds to spend, and that had led to us actually winning the CL rather than wimpering out in the final.

I thought Arsenal (@Proggy) were in an  almost-unbeatable position a few years ago.  New stadium, very successful in recent years, good squad with younger players coming through, stable manager ...  it surprises me how they fell away so quickly.