The recent violence on Capitol Hill

Philly_Q

They've been arrested?  But I thought they were all Antifa types masquerading as Trump supporters?

I'm sure the cops will quietly let them out of the back door of the hoosegow.

Emp_Fab

I’ve actually tried to give a few of them a chance to converse on various platforms, for them to explain their beliefs in a rational logical way.  I was prepared to suspend my belief that they were morons but were just innocents that were gullible and that they would come to see the truth when presented with facts and indisputable evidence.  I was trying to rid myself of my rather snobbish opinion that they were all intensely stupid.

I was wrong.  They are intensely stupid.  They are quite simply, cult members.  NOTHING can convince them that the endless streams of propaganda fed to them by the right-wing crazy channels is anything other than the absolute unvarnished truth.  It’s a cult.  They will dismiss or wilfully ignore anything critical of their glorious Fuhrer and hang on his every word as though he were the messiah.

But we all know he’s not the messiah....

goldtop

The whackjobs are so far out there, it's hard to know how to engage. Here's an official Republican local source:



More bats-in-belfry here: https://nyegop.org/2021/01/08/a-letter-from-the-chairman/?v=7516fd43adaa

WiresDreamDisasters

Which stage of grief is denial, and how many more do we have to go through???

Rich210

goldtop said:

The whackjobs are so far out there, it's hard to know how to engage. Here's an official Republican local source:



More bats-in-belfry here: https://nyegop.org/2021/01/08/a-letter-from-the-chairman/?v=7516fd43adaa

What am interesting find! This is the sort of thing the fbi should be looking at

ICBM

Someone in the Biden administration needs to read up on Denazification.

Rich210

ICBM said:

Someone in the Biden administration needs to read up on Denazification.

Absolutely.  Big tech that laid the ground to this are already doing some kind of denazification but it's early stages yet. There needs to be some kind of mass deradicalisation but it's very difficult to see how that is possible! 

Personally I think the actual harm and overt destruction and intimidation will increase as hard-core groups are seeing themselves as martyr's, just like extreme islamists. There's also the real risk of protections from inside police groups as sections will be radicalised allowing extremists a pass to terrorism. Again for the cause. 

No one should underestimate the power of suggestion and how its taken hold over the last 5 years. 

Rich210

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Which stage of grief is denial, and how many more do we have to go through???

Lol stage theories on grief don't really work! These people have been in active denial for years and are have been gamed up for civil war. Gun and ammo sales went through the roof during the election, millions of Americans are armed to the teeth and are very unstable

DesVegas

They say if trump is impeached in his last few days he'll loose his 200k retirement, his secret service protection but also his ability to be re-elected

https://imgur.com/gallery/jsZTZjJ

WiresDreamDisasters

Rich210 said:

ICBM said:

Someone in the Biden administration needs to read up on Denazification.

Absolutely.  Big tech that laid the ground to this are already doing some kind of denazification but it's early stages yet. There needs to be some kind of mass deradicalisation but it's very difficult to see how that is possible! 

Personally I think the actual harm and overt destruction and intimidation will increase as hard-core groups are seeing themselves as martyr's, just like extreme islamists. There's also the real risk of protections from inside police groups as sections will be radicalised allowing extremists a pass to terrorism. Again for the cause. 

No one should underestimate the power of suggestion and how its taken hold over the last 5 years. 

I would've scoffed at that a few months ago, not too sure now. Honestly - and if we're all honest - if that happened, if America saw militant "Americanism" akin to militant Islamism, that would throw my world into such a crazy disarray that I don't think I could ever trust anything ever again.

It seems so batty and impossible to me that it really would shatter reality completely. And yet, here we are.

Cols

DesVegas said:

They say if trump is impeached in his last few days he'll loose his 200k retirement, his secret service protection but also his ability to be re-elected

This is true.  He wouldn’t give a toss about the $200K pension - he doesn’t even draw his presidential salary, donates it to charity - but the loss of Secret Service protection and the ability to run again in 2024 would be catastrophic for him.

He doesn’t actually need to be convicted and removed before the 20th for this to happen, as long as charges are brought before he leaves office.

Rich210

WiresDreamDisasters said:

Rich210 said:

ICBM said:

Someone in the Biden administration needs to read up on Denazification.

Absolutely.  Big tech that laid the ground to this are already doing some kind of denazification but it's early stages yet. There needs to be some kind of mass deradicalisation but it's very difficult to see how that is possible! 

Personally I think the actual harm and overt destruction and intimidation will increase as hard-core groups are seeing themselves as martyr's, just like extreme islamists. There's also the real risk of protections from inside police groups as sections will be radicalised allowing extremists a pass to terrorism. Again for the cause. 

No one should underestimate the power of suggestion and how its taken hold over the last 5 years. 

I would've scoffed at that a few months ago, not too sure now. Honestly - and if we're all honest - if that happened, if America saw militant "Americanism" akin to militant Islamism, that would throw my world into such a crazy disarray that I don't think I could ever trust anything ever again.

It seems so batty and impossible to me that it really would shatter reality completely. And yet, here we are.

 I know you would have, we've been exchanging arguments around similar things for quite a while.  It's been a very real thing for quite some time, we can't underestimate the underlying mechanisms in psychology and how they interact with the gentle nudges that algorithms, albeit neutrally, bring people with and gently expose them to increasingly polarising and very often inaccurate material. The anger and distrust characterised by the paranoid schizoid position is completely  entrenched; the abusive lover that is Donald trump can do no wrong while the ironic and perplexing needs for these people to harm themselves and others in the name of someone else gives them a platform to be seen, heard and noticed. If I was analysing this in terms of a group of children there's a few different things I'd be considering. Firstly which have power and invoke fear in other children and secondly which children  act complicity in order to defend themselves from these antagonists. 

We can see that the republican lawmakers have been complicit due to fear and retribution from trump. A change has occurred since trumps political platforms are beginning to be disrupted. However, the antagonists, as I see it which will keep the GOP in a fascist form will come from heavily armed militia groups

goldtop

I hadn't read the details about the cause of the policeman's death. I assumed he'd been squashed in the crush at the door. But he was actually murdered by the mob. The mob shouting "USA! USA!"

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/kucaz0/the_moment_officer_brian_sicknick_is_dragged_into/

*

WiresDreamDisasters

Absolute dickheads.

A prime example of the madness of collectivism, and the absolute abhorence of group-think. Look at the ones who are stood around smiling and grinning. They are not there for beliefs. They are there for chaos - they are there to riot, and to feel like they are part of something, something bigger than them. They've fallen victim to all of the worst nefarious aspects of the human condition.

We know from studies on herd mentality that it takes 5% of people to sway the other 95%. 5% of dickheads can turn what should be a peaceful protest into an all our riotous murder fest. It doesn't matter the side or the tribe; if 5% of them are absolute brainwashed maniac arseholes, then things go bad.

And this is what happens when we can't communicate as a species. We revert to our shit-head lizard brain, and we enjoy it. 

I've really woken up with a low opinion of humanity today. Think I need to get off the internet for a bit!

Rich210

These people are certainly not 'collectivists'. They are the polar opposite, they are screaming their individual liberty to do what they want when they want to, even if that's being a fascist, racist, bigoted and hateful. But, like Seneca said, 'never trust yourself in a large group'. They maybe a collection of people, but their world view is of individual responsibility to bear arms and kill people that enter their houses. Collectivism is more aligned to socialism. 

I think victim is a good way to think about these people, they are victims of significant abuses of power by the most powerful man in the world that has utilised the most prevalent narratives and 'truths' which have been internalised by this group of people. Over time these truths become increasingly accepted, especially when powerful figure and leader adopts them in their narratives. The trust and blind belief these people show to their leader is 100% the same as a cult leader and extreme radical cleric. 

I agree if 5%, 2%, even 1% have significant power to cause harm to those in the vicinity that they operate in then coercion will happen. It's about self-preservation, the 1% are trying to preserve themselves as much as the 99% that are scared of them and follow. The bullies we are talking about invoke fear to gain control in part due to them never really successfully negotiating those early experiences of control and omnipotence as very young children. So they find fear as a route to achieving a sense of control in the world and this then becomes very well practiced in the contexts they have relationships. The love they find is obviously very very fragile, and they'll never expect that love to run a long term course - which is why we see Donald Trump firing people before they overtly, and predictably throw their love in his face. Donald Trump, and the Trump family, have learned to buy love historically, have suddenly found a new form of unconditional love they never knew existed. This for me explains why Donald Trump is still placating his followers and disputing the election, and he will never give up; he's experiencing unconditional love for the first time in his life and desperate to control and maintain it. It's an addiction for him, but also for his children, who have equally never experienced this unconditional love. The nucleus of the Trump family only knows love through payment, love with conditions and that love doesn't last.  Trumpism is the love he never knew and never had, whether it causes harm to himself or the world is irrelevant, he'll do everything to hold onto it. 

tony99

WiresDreamDisasters said:

I've really woken up with a low opinion of humanity today. Think I need to get off the internet for a bit!

Don't be too long, we'll be waiting for you ...

WiresDreamDisasters

@Rich210 ;;

I don't even know how to respond to that quite honestly. I cannot follow your logic at all, and don't even know where to begin untangling the web of words you've just posted. It just reads as a kneejerk defense of collectivism, because you think I just attacked it.

Scientifically speaking, we know what happens when a collective of humans get together for one common purpose. We know how easily manipulable they are. We know the mechanisms at play. 5% isn't a number I just plucked out of the air. It's what the literature suggests.

I don't understand how you jump from my saying they're an example of the madness of collectivism to an assertion you make that they're not collectivists, to inaccurate percentages, to comments about love....

Like - no piss take... I just don't get it.

WiresDreamDisasters

tony99 said:

WiresDreamDisasters said:

I've really woken up with a low opinion of humanity today. Think I need to get off the internet for a bit!

Don't be too long, we'll be waiting for you ...

No problem Jeremy!

Rich210

WiresDreamDisasters said:

@Rich210 ;;

I don't even know how to respond to that quite honestly. I cannot follow your logic at all, and don't even know where to begin untangling the web of words you've just posted. It just reads as a kneejerk defense of collectivism, because you think I just attacked it.

Scientifically speaking, we know what happens when a collective of humans get together for one common purpose. We know how easily manipulable they are. We know the mechanisms at play. 5% isn't a number I just plucked out of the air. It's what the literature suggests.

I don't understand how you jump from my saying they're an example of the madness of collectivism to an assertion you make that they're not collectivists, to inaccurate percentages, to comments about love....

Like - no piss take... I just don't get it.

Don't worry dude, we've just got very different ways of trying to get to grips of this. My background is in mental health and psycho-social thinking. A way of understanding psychology is through the quality of relationships and the impact that relationships have on people's expectations for me this is crucial when trying to explain the situation we are seeing, and to a lesser extent predict what will happen next.  

The research by numbers, albeit is important, doesn't talk about the mechanisms - it's just a mean average, and what it proves is that just like you said a small number of people relative to the group size can hold significant influence. I don't dispute that number, what I'll add though is that number is context dependent and in no way will there ever be 5%, and in no way will the contextual mechanisms be the same from situation to situation. But in order to understand the contextual mechanisms we need to understand the expectations of relationships for these people, but without sitting them on the couch, the only way we can do that is through their actions and discourses as they present them in the real world. 

I'm highlighting that actually this situation is very very very bad. From a psychoanalytic perspective this president will not relinquish power over his devoted followers because he has never experienced unconditional love in his life, and I would argue that unconsciously this has more power than money for Donald Trump and his family. I predict that Trump would sooner go to rack and ruin before he gives up on is devoted followers. 

ThePrettyDamned

goldtop said:

I hadn't read the details about the cause of the policeman's death. I assumed he'd been squashed in the crush at the door. But he was actually murdered by the mob. The mob shouting "USA! USA!"

https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/kucaz0/the_moment_officer_brian_sicknick_is_dragged_into/

*

Jeeeeeeez that's awful. 

Blue lives matter according to these guys. One guy, with a flag pole (who, let's be clear, jabs it into the face-down fallen cop) is *smiling* as he does it. 

Fuck.