Something new from PRS tonight - 7pm Eastern Sea Board Time

Whitecat

Philly_Q said:

@Whitecat I didn't know there were massive ongoing delamination problems, although I have posted before about the finish on my 2013 S2, which turned out to be a "known issue" as they say.

I see pics/complaints of both Cores and S2s all the time on PRS Facebook groups etc... indeed a known issue, and definitely was most problematic around V12 but didn't entirely go away (since S2s never used V12 but suffered the problem). Hopefully when they changed to the nitro-over-CAB the problem is sorted as I've also heard that PRS Europe are being unhelpful with warranty claims - they are now refusing repairs on guitars more than 5 years old, despite that probably not being a specific exclusion at the time.

richardhomer

Interesting point about V12 finish @guitars4you.

I had a 2011 McCarty finished in V12. I never had any flaking issues - which I believe were quite common - but it never looked as good as earlier PRS finishes to my eyes. It seemed slightly ‘opaque’ for want of a better description.

My late 2014 DGT looks much better. My assumption was V12 had ‘improved’ - looks like it was simply discontinued....

Philly_Q

Whitecat said:

Philly_Q said:

@Whitecat I didn't know there were massive ongoing delamination problems, although I have posted before about the finish on my 2013 S2, which turned out to be a "known issue" as they say.

I see pics/complaints of both Cores and S2s all the time on PRS Facebook groups etc... indeed a known issue, and definitely was most problematic around V12 but didn't entirely go away (since S2s never used V12 but suffered the problem). Hopefully when they changed to the nitro-over-CAB the problem is sorted as I've also heard that PRS Europe are being unhelpful with warranty claims - they are now refusing repairs on guitars more than 5 years old, despite that probably not being a specific exclusion at the time.

At least that saves me the "should I or shouldn't I" dilemma about making a warranty claim on my S2 Mira, I didn't really want to send it away.  If the delamination ever gets really bad I'll just pay for a nitro refinish (although I guess that would mean losing the PRS logo on the headstock).  

ICBM

guitars4you said:

From 1985 – 2019, PRS used a polyester basecoat and an acrylic topcoat. During 2019, we started to transition to a nitrocellulose over CAB (catalyzed acrylic) finish.  This was a flying change that was slowly worked into production.  If your guitar was made during 2019, we cannot accurately determine the exact finish used on your instrument, so it is best to treat it as you would any other nitrocellulose finish and avoid long term contact with leather, rubber, and vinyl. Guitars produced in 2020 and beyond have the nitro over CAB finish.

Well that's another reason not to buy a new PRS.

guitars4you

Philly_Q said:

Unless I've misunderstood something, I don't think the finish has changed for 2021.  This is the finish they introduced in 2019 but it wasn't used universally until 2020.  From the website:

"From 1985 – 2019, PRS used a polyester basecoat and an acrylic topcoat. During 2019, we started to transition to a nitrocellulose over CAB (catalyzed acrylic) finish.  This was a flying change that was slowly worked into production.  If your guitar was made during 2019, we cannot accurately determine the exact finish used on your instrument, so it is best to treat it as you would any other nitrocellulose finish and avoid long term contact with leather, rubber, and vinyl. Guitars produced in 2020 and beyond have the nitro over CAB finish."

They also say "nitro over cellulose (CAB)" which confuses things a bit.  I don't know enough about finishes to quite understand that.

@Whitecat I didn't know there were massive ongoing delamination problems, although I have posted before about the finish on my 2013 S2, which turned out to be a "known issue" as they say.

looks like you posting and mine just crossed over - I've seen the same info, but additionally that posting from Shawn who runs the USA Customer services and has been there for many years

 'Paul has moved on from V12. It's similar to why we now have Phase III locking tuners and Phase III trems and Adjustable Stoptail Bridge with Brass saddles and 58/15's are now used instead of 57/8 pickups. Paul is constantly refining the product. IIRC, we stopped using V12 in 2013'

Hattigol

ICBM said:

guitars4you said:

From 1985 – 2019, PRS used a polyester basecoat and an acrylic topcoat. During 2019, we started to transition to a nitrocellulose over CAB (catalyzed acrylic) finish.  This was a flying change that was slowly worked into production.  If your guitar was made during 2019, we cannot accurately determine the exact finish used on your instrument, so it is best to treat it as you would any other nitrocellulose finish and avoid long term contact with leather, rubber, and vinyl. Guitars produced in 2020 and beyond have the nitro over CAB finish.

Well that's YET another reason not to buy a new PRS.

FTFY.
What absolutely rotten looking guitars. That off-white one looks like a £49 special from the Grattan catalogue.

Jalapeno

Underwhelmed tbh, and as a fanboi, thought I'd be getting sweaty palms .....

guitars4you

richardhomer said:

Interesting point about V12 finish @guitars4you.

I had a 2011 McCarty finished in V12. I never had any flaking issues - which I believe were quite common - but it never looked as good as earlier PRS finishes to my eyes. It seemed slightly ‘opaque’ for want of a better description.

My late 2014 DGT looks much better. My assumption was V12 had ‘improved’ - looks like it was simply discontinued....

I suppose there is an issue for any manufactures regarding a finish, as it probably takes a huge number of sales, coupled with many hours of playing to see if any issues arise, months/years down the line - It is then a case of how a company responds to such issues - Both with regards to any warranty issues and changes to new stock pouring out of the factory

As @Whitecat mentions, on various forums and media sites, there have been quite a few listings relevant to finish issues

Imagine if all customers complained about fading to their 59 Les Paul Flame Top back in the 1960's !!!!!!!!

rossi

More poor  strat copies .When will they end ......

jeztone2

I always thought my 2015 Custom 24 Floyd was a V12 finish? It seemed to mark really easily compared to my 2000 Custom 22. The finish on that always seemed harder wearing. 

PC_Dave

£2600 for the Fiore.....

PC_Dave

£2825 for the new Silver Sky colour.

ThePrettyDamned

guitars4you said:

guitars4you said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

guitars4you said:

bit confused about the terminology of the finish - 

Nitro over Cellulose (CAB)

 + what does CAB mean

Nitro over cellulose, I would assume, would be the same as how Fender finish their guitars - just a nitro topcoat so they can pretend it's a nitro finish. 

CAB sounds like the colour... Candy apple blue? (although your guitar is green, so no idea!) 

Interesting - As far as I knew, PRS finished most core models with a V12 finish from around 2010 - What I've just found out is that it looks like it was finished in 2013 - Quote from Shawn at PRS Customer services on a PRS Forum 'Paul has moved on from V12. It's similar to why we now have Phase III locking tuners and Phase III trems and Adjustable Stoptail Bridge with Brass saddles and 58/15's are now used instead of 57/8 pickups. Paul is constantly refining the product. IIRC, we stopped using V12 in 2013'

 - So what have they used since then - Many dealers have quoted V12 as the finish on core models for many years since, assuming it to be correct info - It appears as though such news has just crept under any radar

Update time - after looking at the PRS web site this is their posting

What type of finish does PRS use on CORE guitars?

From 1985 – 2019, PRS used a polyester basecoat and an acrylic topcoat. During 2019, we started to transition to a nitrocellulose over CAB (catalyzed acrylic) finish.  This was a flying change that was slowly worked into production.  If your guitar was made during 2019, we cannot accurately determine the exact finish used on your instrument, so it is best to treat it as you would any other nitrocellulose finish and avoid long term contact with leather, rubber, and vinyl. Guitars produced in 2020 and beyond have the nitro over CAB finish.

In any case, I'm disappointed by the move to nitro topcoat. Just less durable and more reactive than other options. 

Whitecat

PC_Dave said:

£2825 for the new Silver Sky colour.

If you order it today... bet scalpers will be busy right now...

guitars4you

PC_Dave said:

£2600 for the Fiore.....

which is roughly in line with Suhr Classic - less than a Fender Custom Shop + Anderson equivalent models

StefB

Just shy of £4k for the new Studio at Andertons. Who is paying these prices?

DrJazzTap

I quite like that fiore model, granted it reminds me a lot of a musicman luke. Not sure on the bird inlays though.

blueskunk

Mad prices them!

melod

blueskunk said:

Mad prices them!

Absolutely !

what have changed since the silver sky launch, for example, to justify such a price jump. If it is the workers getting a 20% raise , fine but I suspect it ain’t that.

Ok , I know the bigger arguments on currency and costs etc but American brands have gone crazy the last 3 years or so (And I don’t think currency fluctuations are to be blamed entirely). Especially fender, seems to be living on another planet.

I think Japanese made guitars have had more reasonable increases, including Gretsch. 

Whitecat

melod said:

blueskunk said:

Mad prices them!

Absolutely !

what have changed since the silver sky launch, for example, to justify such a price jump. If it is the workers getting a 20% raise , fine but I suspect it ain’t that.

Ok , I know the bigger arguments on currency and costs etc but American brands have gone crazy the last 3 years or so (And I don’t think currency fluctuations are to be blamed entirely). Especially fender, seems to be living on another planet.

I think Japanese made guitars have had more reasonable increases, including Gretsch. 

The flip-flop finish Silver Skys are a significant chunk more than their regular non-limited stable brothers. The last one was too - so it’s not really a massive increase on the regular price.