The TV Thread

Timcito

I started the 6th series of Outlander the day before yesterday and am on episode 3 now.

In terms of the eternal conflict between good and evil, Outlander has an abundance of low-hanging fruit for the 'evil' side. When you take a terribly, terribly PC woman from the 20th century and cast her amongst the ignorance, superstition, and cruelty of the 18th, you're never short of someone to hit against!

Dontgiveupyourdayjob

I'm fashionably late to the party as ever, but just finished the first series of Blue Lights. Terrific stuff, and seemed to fly under the radar a little compared to some things. Not far off some of the best UK cop dramas of recent times (Happy Valley, Line of Duty etc) in terms of quality.

CavemanGrogg

Timcito said:

Kurtis said:

Isn't hell from vicking folklore?

Yes, I think it comes from the 'Hel' of the Vikings combined with Hades from the Greeks. However, surprise surprise, neither of these compares with the insanely sadistic visions of the Christian Hell.

For a start the Vikings thought hel was a frozen ice and snow filled wasteland where it was impossible to be warm.  This was also the early Christian belief in what hell was until an Italian poet named Dante Alighieri poem the Divine Comedy, specifically the first book Inferno was published in the early 14th century.  If you look at early medieval bibles, of which there are many many examples that where written in English - middle English to be specific the same ''language'' that  Geoffrey Chaucer wrote the Canterbury Tales in, King James didn't commission the first English bible, English kings had been trying to produce one since before Alfred the Great became king, he even tried to produce a standardised bible in English, hell was depicted very very similar to what the Vikings believed.  There's an amazing book about the King James bible, I can't remember off the top of my head what the book is called, but it's by the author Niger Tranter, who has honestly not written a book that is not worth reading - I actually live near where True Thomas lived, and his tower - Rhymer Tower, is quite a nice walk from my house - the guy claimed he was away visiting fairies for a few years personally I reckon he was on an epic pub crawl and didn't want his wife to find out.  It was Dante who brought us the fire and brimstone version of hell that Christians believe in nowadays, and he managed to do it very fast with 3 books that comedicly poetically critiques of the Church during his time.  Read the Divine Comedy, specifically the Inferno, Dante, punishes a lot of very very powerful and prominent people and institutions of his time, even Popes - 3 of them Pope Nicholas III Pope Boniface VIII and Pope Celestine V he sent to hell and humiliated and punished brutally, depicting them being punished in specific levels of hell for their sins, duplicity, and corruption, he even called the Jesuits out for their greed and had them punished in hell by wading through shit in their famous robes but lined them with lead to weigh them down.

Just remembered the title, Poetic Justice, I strongly recommend that anybody with even the slightest interest or curiosity about the history of the bible, not just the bible in English, and Christianity, celibacy for example was not part of priest hood to not much more than 500 years ago there where a lot of high ranking religious officials , Popes, high ranking nobles, and court officials who got their position in the Church or court because they where the children of high ranking church officials and Popes, and they where considered legitimate children, not bastards, priests where getting married back then, the whole celibacy thing was brought in to curb both the power of the Church, and the abuse by high ranking Church officials of promoting their children into position, that back then, gave them huge levels of power, influence, and authority.

Timcito said:

CavemanGrogg said:

Timcito said:

One small point of interest that comes out of Vikings as it did in The Last Kingdom is how Christianity managed to emerge with such force in the coming centuries compared with Norse beliefs. There seemed to be a time in Britain when opposing fantastical mythologies of life creation ran concurrently, and yet not only was Christianity the only one to win out back then, it has even managed to survive, albeit a bit roughed up, to the present day. You don't hear too many Norwegians these days relishing an afterlife future in Valhalla! What did Christianity have, I wonder, that Norse mythology did not? Maybe the Inquisition!  

Christianity had a huge advantage over paganism, namely the importance of ''the word'', in other words having a written and codified religion, don't forget the very first institutions of learning, in the UK at least, where setup by and for Christian monks, priests......., even before the invention of the printing press - Gutenberg's wasn't the first they had actually been around for quite a while before his vastly improved design was developed, ''Christianity'' had put huge emphasis on both reading and writing, just look at all the scribes that where copying books to be distributed to other Christian areas, and areas being converted to Christianity.  The power of the written word has and is truly underestimated in regards to history, culture, and even our daily lives.

What I didn't like about Vikings and the Last Kingdom, was all the leather that people where wearing, back then very little leather was worn, even by the very wealthy, nobility, and royalty, it was truly extremely expensive and a sign a great wealth.

Interesting point about books and religion. Mind you, what influence these had must have been autocratic in the sense that hardly anybody could read and write and the texts themselves were all written in Latin. This would make books an instrument of control, rather like the later brutal instrument of the Inquisition. In fact, much of the Christian church's leverage seems historically to have been based on fear, brutality, and ignorance. By comparison, the Norse beliefs, as far as I can glean from the series, seem to celebrate human passions and instincts rather than attempt to bind and suppress them through threats of terrible punishment. When Athelstan refuses Ragnar and Lagartha's offer to have sex with them and he refuses on grounds of religious obedience, they stare at him in appalled disbelief. Like, really?!

Until not that long ago, the ability to read was a ''get out of jail free card'', I can't remember what the psalm, passage or prayer is or actually called, but it was colloquial called at the time something like ''The Thieves Prayer'' or ''The Thieves Psalm'' or ''The Thieves Passage'', which was a specific part of the bible you would be asked to read to prove you could read, and if you could read it, you would be spared jail and any punishment, of course most of these people never bothered to learn to read, and instead just memorised it.  The ''book'' and it's impact on everything from culture, to art, music, writing, architecture, hygiene, laws, punishments, literally everything - and I really do mean everything even other religions like Islam Jesus is a prophet in the Koran and the angel Gabriel is even has a huge role in the Koran, is an extremely fascinating and interesting history.  

Edit to add:

When I say not that long ago I still mean hundreds of years, from up to around 500/600 years ago to 200/300 years ago.

BluesLover

The new series of Rebus on bbc iPlayer looks pretty good. Have watched episode one, about to start episode two after I've poured myself a glass of whisky.

skullfunkerry

We watched Baby Reindeer last week. Absolutely astonishing; I don't think anything u can say would do it justice. One of the hardest things to watch I've sat through, I think; I found it extremely upsetting in parts.

...and talking of upsetting, I watched Breathtaking on ITV. My wife's a nurse; she couldn't watch it, as it brought back too many painful memories for her. I spent the whole of the three episodes swinging between sobbing & outrage.

fretmeister

Just started 3 Body Problem.

3 episodes in and I’m enjoying it greatly. Interesting concept.

sinbaadi

fretmeister said:

Just started 3 Body Problem.

3 episodes in and I’m enjoying it greatly. Interesting concept.

Interested to hear how you get on from there.  I thought it peaked around episode 2-3.

Timcito

Just finished season 6 of Outlander on Netflix. Compelling stuff, and they've left it at a real nail biting moment. Season 7 must be in the pipeline.

One thing did occur, though. There's something that doesn't quite work about having three characters in the 18th century who know what's going to happen all the way up to the 1960s, since that's where they come from. I think it would be more dramatically interesting if the characters who've traveled backwards in time suffer from a partial amnesia in the process. It would add a dramatic tension whereby they sense something momentous is going to happen but can't quite remember the outcome until it happens. There's something a little flat and fatalistic that they know, for example, that the Revolutionary War is going to be won by the Americans.  

boogieman

Timcito said:

Just finished season 6 of Outlander on Netflix. Compelling stuff, and they've left it at a real nail biting moment. Season 7 must be in the pipeline.

One thing did occur, though. There's something that doesn't quite work about having three characters in the 18th century who know what's going to happen all the way up to the 1960s, since that's where they come from. I think it would be more dramatically interesting if the characters who've traveled backwards in time suffer from a partial amnesia in the process. It would add a dramatic tension whereby they sense something momentous is going to happen but can't quite remember the outcome until it happens. There's something a little flat and fatalistic that they know, for example, that the Revolutionary War is going to be won by the Americans.  

My wife loves Outlander, she tells me there’s a new and final series due later this year. I call it Porridge Porn… every time she’s watching it all I can hear is “oooh, urgh, oooh, urgh!”  

Timcito

boogieman said:

Timcito said:

Just finished season 6 of Outlander on Netflix. Compelling stuff, and they've left it at a real nail biting moment. Season 7 must be in the pipeline.

One thing did occur, though. There's something that doesn't quite work about having three characters in the 18th century who know what's going to happen all the way up to the 1960s, since that's where they come from. I think it would be more dramatically interesting if the characters who've traveled backwards in time suffer from a partial amnesia in the process. It would add a dramatic tension whereby they sense something momentous is going to happen but can't quite remember the outcome until it happens. There's something a little flat and fatalistic that they know, for example, that the Revolutionary War is going to be won by the Americans.  

My wife loves Outlander, she tells me there’s a new and final series due later this year. I call it Porridge Porn… every time she’s watching it all I can hear is “oooh, urgh, oooh, urgh!”  

I like it a lot, and the last season was especially good.

ryanverbena

sinbaadi said:

fretmeister said:

Just started 3 Body Problem.

3 episodes in and I’m enjoying it greatly. Interesting concept.

Interested to hear how you get on from there.  I thought it peaked around episode 2-3.

I was right into it at about this point, completely went off a cliff after that. I genuinely couldn't watch the last few episodes because it was so bad. 

Philly_Q

ryanverbena said:

sinbaadi said:

fretmeister said:

Just started 3 Body Problem.

3 episodes in and I’m enjoying it greatly. Interesting concept.

Interested to hear how you get on from there.  I thought it peaked around episode 2-3.

I was right into it at about this point, completely went off a cliff after that. I genuinely couldn't watch the last few episodes because it was so bad. 

You've almost convinced me to give it a go... now I know there's an escape clause when I get bored.

boogieman

I didn’t think it was that bad, although yeah it is certainly better until it gets to the Big Reveal after all the initial set up in the first few episodes. I definitely want to see how it pans out. I see Netflix has confirmed a second series. 

AlbertC

ryanverbena said:

sinbaadi said:

fretmeister said:

Just started 3 Body Problem.

3 episodes in and I’m enjoying it greatly. Interesting concept.

Interested to hear how you get on from there.  I thought it peaked around episode 2-3.

I was right into it at about this point, completely went off a cliff after that. I genuinely couldn't watch the last few episodes because it was so bad. 

Pretty much sums up my experience 

TimmyO

RocknRollDave said:

Passenger ITVX

Cast of decent actors but the story is absolute risible nonsense. 

Ends with a cliffhanger that will surely never get a second series to resolve.

2/10

2? TWO? I watched that and think it was about the worst thing I’ve seen in a LONG time. All the half nods to things that might be happening and - spoiler alert - zero further evidence of any of them being a thing. And a nonsense cliffhanger. It better not get renewed. 

Haych

Finished Bodkin last night.

I enjoyed it, I think some of the sub-plots were more engaging than the actual story, but that wasn't so bad in itself.

The characters, especially Dove (Siobhan Cullen) and Seamus (David Wilmot), were quite well written and portrayed, I think that kept me watching as much as anything else.  

fretmeister

Baby Reindeer.

Very odd. Not sure about it at all and I've now seen 4 episodes.

strumjoughlamps

Haych said:

Finished Bodkin last night.

I enjoyed it, I think some of the sub-plots were more engaging than the actual story, but that wasn't so bad in itself.

The characters, especially Dove (Siobhan Cullen) and Seamus (David Wilmot), were quite well written and portrayed, I think that kept me watching as much as anything else.  

Have you seen Obituary? Cullen is also very good in that..

we have binged the first 3 of Dark Matter on Apple TV+ tonight. Really enjoying it. 

skullfunkerry

strumjoughlamps said:

Haych said:

Finished Bodkin last night.

I enjoyed it, I think some of the sub-plots were more engaging than the actual story, but that wasn't so bad in itself.

The characters, especially Dove (Siobhan Cullen) and Seamus (David Wilmot), were quite well written and portrayed, I think that kept me watching as much as anything else.  

Have you seen Obituary? Cullen is also very good in that..

we have binged the first 3 of Dark Matter on Apple TV+ tonight. Really enjoying it. 

Well reminded; I think we've got one more to watch now. Very much enjoyed what we've seen so far though. Also watching the final series of Inside No.9 which is absolutely astonishing television. I don't think there's a duff episode, and some of them are absolutely jaw dropping.

Also watching Trigger Point on itvx at the moment. Very gripping, but it's heading into 24 territory for me; the police seem to be lurching from one unthinkable situation to another, always a couple of steps behind the bad guys, but always just about scraping through. Having said that, I'm thoroughly enjoying it

Timcito

Anyone else finding Black Sails on Netflix to be uninspiring? I've somehow got through 6 episodes, kinda hoping it will pick up, but it hasn't so far.

I haven't put my finger on why exactly. I'm usually a sucker for historical drama, but this one seems relentlessly flat, despite its attempts at rugged authenticity through unglamorized characters, unfiltered violence, and a fair portion of T&A. Maybe the characters are inexpertly drawn or the plot has failed to create tension. Could be the latter, but I'm still not sure.