Fan fret guitars

CHRISB50

Anyone play / played one? What are they like (I'm imagining like a standard guitar but with strangely spaced frets) to play? Do they actually work?

I've read that it was designed originally for bending. Then I've also read that it retains a more even tension between all the strings, therefore improving tone etc.

I've got no interest in getting one. I'm just interested to hear from people that have used them.

Anyone?

octatonic

CHRISB50 said:

Anyone play / played one? What are they like (I'm imagining like a standard guitar but with strangely spaced frets) to play? Do they actually work?

I've read that it was designed originally for bending. Then I've also read that it retains a more even tension between all the strings, therefore improving tone etc.

I've got no interest in getting one. I'm just interested to hear from people that have used them.

Anyone?

Not exactly.

The main reason for a fan fret is for string tension to be maintained for extended range instruments.

The problem that exists is with a 25.5" scale 8 string is the bass strings are flabby due to lower string tension and the intonation is pretty poor on these string too.

Fan frets allow you to have better intonation on all the strings due to having different scale length on these string.

IMHO there isn't much point using fan fret on a 6 string instrument unless you wish to use a vastly different tuning to standard.

ThePrettyDamned

Yup, that.

I have never used one, but having played a 7 and 8 string (fender scale) it was obvious they needed more tension. The 7 string could cope with a heavier string, but the 8 could probably benefit.

I've actually written to a forum builder to see if he can wood work me one at some point in the future so I can finish it and wire it up.

I think they look stunning, too. I'd almost consider it a different instrument - a true solo instrument, like a piano. Plenty of melodic stuff out there with open tunings that have a nice, big bass sound and a clear melody.

GuyBoden

I've always been intrigued in fanned frets, it must be a complex design calculation due to the varying tensions that are created when fretting different notes, when we fret a note we are constantly changing the scale length of the string.  A nice and tight open "E" could have an overtight 12th fret note.

But, the fanned fret guitar should be more "in tune" than a standard guitar.

Evilmags

They are easy to adjust to and if you drop below D it sounds more balanced across the strings.

octatonic

GuyBoden said:

I've always been intrigued in fanned frets, it must be a complex design calculation due to the varying tensions that are created when fretting different notes, when we fret a note we are constantly changing the scale length of the string.  A nice and tight open "E" could have an overtight 12th fret note.

No, tension is a constant.

The calculation isn't that complex actually- I've done calculations of 16th Century Chitarrone that are more complex.

fretmeister

I had a Dingwall ABZ5 fan fret bass.

It was very good indeed and the 37 inch low B was amazing - very piano like. It was easy to play and I think it took less than 5 mins to get used to it. For some chord shapes it was actually easier because I didn't have to fight to get my fingers in a straight line.

The only reason I sold it was because it was a sod getting strings I liked. Even the D'addario Super Long scale strings were a few mm short on the B.

Dingwall now do a 32 to 35inch 5 string Super-Jazz and I'm very keen to try it!

WezV

piano like is exactly the term i use for this.

I totally disagree that the benefits are only there on extended range instruments.  Parallel frets are a compromise, but they are a compromise most of us are totally fine with.  I would never say fanned frets are essential on a 6  string, but its daft to say the benefit of fanned frets is only seen on 7 or 8 strings, those benefits help over the 6 normal strings too.  We just happen to be more used to the compromise on standard guitars

So far I have made 3 and am currently on the 4th and 5th.  All have been 6 strings, one will be a 9 string but strung double course on the high strings, one has been a baritone 6.

they are more confusing to look at than they are to play.   Most people have absolutely no issue adjusting and are mostly there within 30 seconds

my first one was done with  a very slight fan of 25" treble to 26" bass - fanning out from the 6th fret.  Its beautiful in standard tuning with a set of 9's or 10's.  It also works well with a heavy bottom set and some downtuning, better than a parallel fret guitar does.  nobody has ever struggled to adapt to this guitar.  

a few years ago I handed one to my cousin so we could do some vids.  This one is 25 - 26.5" and he only had a few minutes with it before we started recording - there are a couple of vids of the same guitar

GuyBoden

octatonic said:

GuyBoden said:

I've always been intrigued in fanned frets, it must be a complex design calculation due to the varying tensions that are created when fretting different notes, when we fret a note we are constantly changing the scale length of the string.  A nice and tight open "E" could have an overtight 12th fret note.

No, tension is a constant.

The calculation isn't that complex actually- I've done calculations of 16th Century Chitarrone that are more complex.

Thanks, I learn something new everyday.

ThePrettyDamned

WezV;303451" said:

piano like is exactly the term i use for this.

I totally disagree that the benefits are only there on extended range instruments.  Parallel frets are a compromise, but they are a compromise most of us are totally fine with.  I would never say fanned frets are essential on a 6  string, but its daft to say the benefit of fanned frets is only seen on 7 or 8 strings, those benefits help over the 6 normal strings too.  We just happen to be more used to the compromise on standard guitars

So far I have made 3 and am currently on the 4th and 5th.  All have been 6 strings, one will be a 9 string but strung double course on the high strings, one has been a baritone 6.

they are more confusing to look at than they are to play.   Most people have absolutely no issue adjusting and are mostly there within 30 seconds

my first one was done with  a very slight fan of 25" treble to 26" bass - fanning out from the 6th fret.  Its beautiful in standard tuning with a set of 9's or 10's.  It also works well with a heavy bottom set and some downtuning, better than a parallel fret guitar does.  nobody has ever struggled to adapt to this guitar.  

a few years ago I handed one to my cousin so we could do some vids.  This one is 25 - 26.5" and he only had a few minutes with it before we started recording - there are a couple of vids of the same guitar

Nice. I've wondered what a Gibson high string, fender low string 6 string guitar would be like. Super duper easy legato up high, but decent chugging elsewhere.

CHRISB50

Cheers people.

I want to try one now!

dean2371

How do you work out the fret distances? Are there tables or formulae to do the calculations?

TTony

That's actually *MY* beauty.

@WezV built it for me a few years ago.  I wanted something "different" but was also a little worried about how playable it would be - never having played a fanned fret guitar!

So ...

It feels surprisingly natural and not strange at all.  I can pick it up having played "normal" guitars for months, and fingers just fall into place with no real thought or adjustment.  The spec is also very flexible (P90, tapped HB and piezo) and the workmanship is not too shoddy either.  I probably play it more because of the tonal options and the quality of the guitar than because it's a fanned fret - which I guess means that the FF aspect is no big deal.

WezV

you use one scale for the treble side and another for the bass side, decide which fret is goign to be perpendicular to the centre line then you join the dots

that's the basic principal anyway.  there are a few things to consider.  Obviously if you wanted the high e bang on 25" scale you wouldn't measure 25" scale on the treble edge of the fretboard, you would measure it directly on the  proposed string path because the edge will be slightly shorter

the perpendicualr fret position will affect the feel.  going somewhere between fret 3-7 keeps it feeling quite normal at the nut but quite angled up the top end, which actual helps reach those frets easier.   12th fret gives a nice balance.  I have seen one made with a normal straight bridge which meant the nut was very angled  and first position chords were severly compromised

dean2371

Intriguing. I'm just about to start building a neck so will give this some serious thought. May be a bit ambitious though as it's only the third neck I've built.

TTony

dean2371 said:

May be a bit ambitious though as it's only the third neck I've built.

I guess you wouldn't be able to find a fretting template / guide for it, but as long as your measuring and cutting is accurate, would it be any more difficult than cutting the slots for a standard frets?

dean2371

Very true. I feel a bit of calculating and measuring coming on

WezV

slotting the fretboard is the bit i find least confusing, although carefully marking and hand slotting all the slots does take a long time.  I have a couple of maple boards slotted by @GSPbasses and i fully intend on getting some done in ebony soon.  I have done them the slow way by hand a few times and its enough to convince me that its worth paying someone else to do that particular task

however, drawing and working it all out yourself will answer a hell of a lot of questions you will have as you start to build.

There is a decision what to do behind the nut

look behind the nut on this:

http://stringboxanthropology.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/t2dp0.jpg

compared to this:

http://www.mykaguitars.com/instruments/172/65.jpg

the first one is made with a normal angled headstock which leave a triangle of spare wood on the treble side and you need to make sure the strings won't foul that section.

the bottom one is done with a compound headstock angle  so it angles back evenly from the nut.... which i still struggle to get me head around 

dean2371

I was wondering about the nut end. I've found a couple of guide calculators via Google which are interesting. I don't mind doing it myself; I find it strangely therapeutic. I've got leave from work coming up and its either do an enjoyable guitar related project or get saddled with a list of DIY jobs to do; I know which one I'd prefer!

JayGee

WezV said:

There is a decision what to do behind the nut

look behind the nut on this:

http://stringboxanthropology.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/t2dp0.jpg

compared to this:

http://www.mykaguitars.com/instruments/172/65.jpg

the first one is made with a normal angled headstock which leave a triangle of spare wood on the treble side and you need to make sure the strings won't foul that section.

the bottom one is done with a compound headstock angle  so it angles back evenly from the nut.... which i still struggle to get me head around 

Would a zero fret and a conventional (perpendicular) nut (which is what I initially assumed was going on with the top picture until I actually read thevwhole post and then zoomed in and looked a bit more closely...) be considered a complete cop-out...?

WezV

Not a bad idea actually, although i do wonder whether having the nut further away from the zero fret could reduce its effectiveness.

Although i am currently doing my first with a proper compound headstock angle and its going really well. Easier to do than describe.