Les Paul style Guitar - PAF or P90?

Cirrus

I've got a lovely 2000 Japanese Epiphone Les Paul, and I keep trying to use it in my band. Various PAFs - the stock low wind ceramics, Gibson BB1 & 2, BK Stormy Mondays and SD Alnico II Pro have been in it in the last few months. The result is always: I love noodling on it at home, and if I was in a heavier band they'd be amazing.

But my band requires more dynamic, edgy (not "The Edge"-y...) clean sounds, and overdrive with more snarl and attitude. At loud practice compared to my guitars with Filtertrons and Firebird pickups, PAFs come across as a flat dollop'o'mids with no dynamics.

So... I've got Oil City Mighty 90s in it now and I'm waiting for a practice not to be cancelled by covid fears so I can give them a decent try at volume.

I did a straw poll on my Facebook and was surprised that P90s are overwhelmingly more popular among my guitarist friends. To my mind, PAFs in an LP are pretty much default.

Soooo... what say you? Would you rather PAF or P90? Why?

Danielsguitars

Dog ear p90, you'll only need a junior imo

Sassafras

P90s.
I don't like humbuckers on any guitars.

fretfinder

P90s are probably my favourite pickups, but I love PAFs too. If you think PAFs have “no dynamics” in your set up, then I’d be looking at the guitar, pedals and amp to try to understand why that might be. In my experience good PAFs are very versatile and very dynamic when paired with the right amp and pedals. Good luck with the search for ‘that’ sound, we’ve all been there!

RaymondLin

Humbucker in a Les Paul, P90 in a Junior for me.

Dominic

I hate PAF .......thin,tinny,squeeky,metallic,weedy and clicky with that horrible unpotted percussiveness.
To me it makes a Les Paul sound like a beefy Telecaster.
That's what others love.
So,irrespective of what others say ..........it's all personal choice.
Maybe the LP isn't the right guitar for your band needs.

Winny_Pooh

PAF in the bridge, p90 in the neck.

Cirrus

fretfinder said:

If you think PAFs have “no dynamics” in your set up, then I’d be looking at the guitar, pedals and amp to try to understand why that might be. In my experience good PAFs are very versatile and very dynamic when paired with the right amp and pedals.

Ah, there's no great mystery here. I'm using a pedalboard set up for the dynamics of the aforementioned Filtertron and firebird guitars - actually similar output levels to PAF, but less mid heavy and a lot more twangy/wirey/dynamic. And into an AC30 set to sound good with those. So I want the LP to be a step up in density & sustain but through that rig the PAF midrange dominates and compared to the other guitars there's not so much touch sensitivity/ payoff for playing dynamics.

And musical context counts for loads too. There's a big difference between Peter Green/ Snowy White bluesy Les Paul dynamics, and doing something more modern indie based.

I agree, different rig the various PAFs would kill. Like I say, in my last, heavier band they'd have been perfect - I used A2 Pros loads in those days. And that rig, set for PAF output humbuckers, had a different limitation - single coils sounded quiet, bright and too thin, so I always had to use a clean boost or compressor to compensate.

Funkfingers

The default tFB answer is that you need both.

Hence, the solution is Seymour Duncan P-Rails pickups in Triple Shot mounting surrounds. You probably would not use the Rail and parallel modes very often but might as well have them.

If the MIJ Epiphone already has coil splittage via push-pull pots, you can forego the Triple Shots.

Peteyorks

I try my best to love paf equipped guitars, but always come back to p90s. They have the right mix of beef and mids but just jangle to my ears too

ThePrettyDamned

Don't like really expensive PAF pickups, cheaper ones tend to be a bit better for my ears.

P90s are almost always good. I've never heard a terrible p90, even cheap ones, but when they're very overwound they can be really noisy (although this might have been a poorly shielded guitar to be fair). 

Other humbuckers are also great. Filtertron style are really nice, as are Duncan jazz and customs. Looking forward to trying dimarzio tone zone and air Norton but sure I'll like them well enough.

If you don't get on with PAFs use something else they're sold as the be-all and end-all of humbuckers but they're just an old design that had loads of variance. If alumitones were available in the 50s and 60s, guess what a lot of old records would have been recorded with  

merlin

I'm another fan of P90s. The only humbuckers I've ever got on with (and love) are my HS Filtertrons on my Gretsch. 

Rowby1

I have a LP Std with Mighty 90s in. Love it. It’s had various (I think about four different sets) pickups in it previously and the Mighty 90s are the ones that suit it best by a mile.

I have PAF clones in my Heritage H-535 which really suit that guitar and I think that’s the crux of the matter. Finding pickups that work for any particular guitar is the trick…..I don’t think the Mighty 90s would sound half as good in my Heritage and equally the PAF types I had in my LP previously didn’t sound much more than just ok.

Rowby1

Winny_Pooh said:

PAF in the bridge, p90 in the neck.

This is also a winning combination in the right guitar. I have an Eastman T386 which I’ve modded like this…..probably my current favourite.

ICBM

Cirrus said:

I've got a lovely 2000 Japanese Epiphone Les Paul, and I keep trying to use it in my band. Various PAFs - the stock low wind ceramics, Gibson BB1 & 2, BK Stormy Mondays and SD Alnico II Pro have been in it in the last few months. The result is always: I love noodling on it at home, and if I was in a heavier band they'd be amazing.

But my band requires more dynamic, edgy (not "The Edge"-y...) clean sounds, and overdrive with more snarl and attitude. At loud practice compared to my guitars with Filtertrons and Firebird pickups, PAFs come across as a flat dollop'o'mids with no dynamics.

So... I've got Oil City Mighty 90s in it now and I'm waiting for a practice not to be cancelled by covid fears so I can give them a decent try at volume.

I did a straw poll on my Facebook and was surprised that P90s are overwhelmingly more popular among my guitarist friends. To my mind, PAFs in an LP are pretty much default.

Soooo... what say you? Would you rather PAF or P90? Why?

If Filtertrons and Firebirds are better than PAFs for what you need, you want pickups with lower winds and more powerful magnets - that combination produces less mids, more bottom and top, and more dynamics.

All those pickups are Alnico II, which sounds soft and flat with a low wind to me - I know that's not a popular opinion! - and with too much mid. I would definitely try something with about the same wind but Alnico V magnets.

P90s have even more mids, although also more dynamics. Personally I'm ambivalent about them... I don't see them as the be-all and end-all that a lot of players do - they're OK in some guitars but overall I tend to prefer humbuckers.

CHRISB50

RaymondLin said:

Humbucker in a Les Paul, P90 in a Junior for me.

This ^

Dems the rules.

Jalapeno

Funkfingers said:

The default tFB answer is that you need both.

But, rather than PRails, a P90/P100 at the neck and beefy H/B at the bridge.

Stratavarious

My go to number 1 for gigs has 3x P90.  

The Les Paul will come along hoping for a broken string.

merlin

Winny_Pooh said:

PAF in the bridge, p90 in the neck.

Tele bridge in the bridge, P90 in the neck is also a killer combination.

(inserts pic of Fano SP6)

timmypix

I'm humbuckers all day every day, but for this specific scenario it sounds like P90s are the way to go.

Cirrus

merlin said:

Winny_Pooh said:

PAF in the bridge, p90 in the neck.

Tele bridge in the bridge, P90 in the neck is also a killer combination.

(inserts pic of Fano SP6)

A big influence is Daniel Lanois, who seems to like the Neil Young P90 neck/ Firebird Bridge combo, which is kinda like a fat tele bridge. I tried the firebird bridge in this LP but honestly didn't find it a useful sound - very bright and strident, I think the mahogany top & more dead LP body leans it in the wrong direction compared to my all-mahogany Explorer. Into a really pushed Fender Tweed style amp? It'd absolutely rock.