The F1 thread

Pablo

"Brown added that he had consulted closely with lead driver Alonso, who had been "a part of the process", and that the two new appointees will work closely to "maximise the performance of the team"."

I'm a big fan of Alonso, but I do wonder if he's who they need to be listening to, particularly as he sounds like he's going to give up a the end of the season.

Cols

Fretwired said:

Cols said:

Having read Adrian Newey’s excellent autobiography, I don’t think he would be caught dead in McLaren again.  He was particularly scathing of their ‘wretchedly complicated matrix structure’, which was brought in to ensure that no one person had so much control that their departure would critically damage the operation.

Ironically, this approach is what has got them into the current mess; there’s no one person to take overall responsibility for the car, so the aero, chassis and engineering heads haven’t been working in synchrony.

But that was Ron .. I'm pretty sure the Sheik of whatever would have a clear-out to get Newey. The guy looks bored at Red Bull.

After shelling out £100 million to get shot of Honda, I’m sure the Bahrainis would pay whatever was needed to get Newey.  I don’t think that would work though.  I don’t see money as being a prime motivator for him. 

My perception of what drives Newey is to have his opinion respected on all matters related to F1, to be valued and to have an output for his creativity.  He walked from Williams when they first hired Villeneuve and then fired Hill without consulting him, and left McLaren when he felt he was being sidelined and overruled.  Red Bull give him what motivates him in spades; he's carefully consulted, well-paid and given a high degree of freedom both within Red Bull Racing and on other projects like the Aston Martin Valkyrie.  Just offering him pots of money to jump ship would be like throwing lettuce at a shark.

I could be wrong, though.  I was sure McLaren were going to snaffle Ross Brawn after Martin Whitmarsh left.

Fretwired

Cols said:

Fretwired said:

Cols said:

Having read Adrian Newey’s excellent autobiography, I don’t think he would be caught dead in McLaren again.  He was particularly scathing of their ‘wretchedly complicated matrix structure’, which was brought in to ensure that no one person had so much control that their departure would critically damage the operation.

Ironically, this approach is what has got them into the current mess; there’s no one person to take overall responsibility for the car, so the aero, chassis and engineering heads haven’t been working in synchrony.

But that was Ron .. I'm pretty sure the Sheik of whatever would have a clear-out to get Newey. The guy looks bored at Red Bull.

After shelling out £100 million to get shot of Honda, I’m sure the Bahrainis would pay whatever was needed to get Newey.  I don’t think that would work though.  I don’t see money as being a prime motivator for him. 

My perception of what drives Newey is to have his opinion respected on all matters related to F1, to be valued and to have an output for his creativity.  He walked from Williams when they first hired Villeneuve and then fired Hill without consulting him, and left McLaren when he felt he was being sidelined and overruled.  Red Bull give him what motivates him in spades; he's carefully consulted, well-paid and given a high degree of freedom both within Red Bull Racing and on other projects like the Aston Martin Valkyrie.  Just offering him pots of money to jump ship would be like throwing lettuce at a shark.

I could be wrong, though.  I was sure McLaren were going to snaffle Ross Brawn after Martin Whitmarsh left.

I didn't say pay Newey shed loads of money. I said have a clear out meaning dead wood, poor systems etc. Guys like Newey like a challenge. Give him a blank chequebook and a blank canvas to design whatever he wants and power to hire people and he could be motivated. I'm not sure he's happy at Red Bull judging by his body language. And the owner of Red Bull has lost interest in F1. Will they always have a big budget? And after all Red Bull is a drinks company. McClaren has history and pedigree - it's been badly run for far too long.

Cols

Dodge said:

Boullier's gone:  https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula-one/44708491

I hear that the staff have had a whip round and got him a nice big box of Freddos as a leaving present.

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

Cols said:

Fretwired said:

Cols said:

Having read Adrian Newey’s excellent autobiography, I don’t think he would be caught dead in McLaren again.  He was particularly scathing of their ‘wretchedly complicated matrix structure’, which was brought in to ensure that no one person had so much control that their departure would critically damage the operation.

Ironically, this approach is what has got them into the current mess; there’s no one person to take overall responsibility for the car, so the aero, chassis and engineering heads haven’t been working in synchrony.

But that was Ron .. I'm pretty sure the Sheik of whatever would have a clear-out to get Newey. The guy looks bored at Red Bull.

After shelling out £100 million to get shot of Honda, I’m sure the Bahrainis would pay whatever was needed to get Newey.  I don’t think that would work though.  I don’t see money as being a prime motivator for him. 

My perception of what drives Newey is to have his opinion respected on all matters related to F1, to be valued and to have an output for his creativity.  He walked from Williams when they first hired Villeneuve and then fired Hill without consulting him, and left McLaren when he felt he was being sidelined and overruled.  Red Bull give him what motivates him in spades; he's carefully consulted, well-paid and given a high degree of freedom both within Red Bull Racing and on other projects like the Aston Martin Valkyrie.  Just offering him pots of money to jump ship would be like throwing lettuce at a shark.

I could be wrong, though.  I was sure McLaren were going to snaffle Ross Brawn after Martin Whitmarsh left.

I didn't say pay Newey shed loads of money. I said have a clear out meaning dead wood, poor systems etc. Guys like Newey like a challenge. Give him a blank chequebook and a blank canvas to design whatever he wants and power to hire people and he could be motivated. I'm not sure he's happy at Red Bull judging by his body language. And the owner of Red Bull has lost interest in F1. Will they always have a big budget? And after all Red Bull is a drinks company. McClaren has history and pedigree - it's been badly run for far too long.

People keep saying that but I haven't seen any evidence of it. 

Red Bull is a drinks company that has always had motorsport and extreme sports at the heart of its marketing. I'm sure F1 isn't quite as high-priority as it may have been when they were rinsing everyone, but it's still a big part of their strategy, alongside MotoGP, the Air Race, Rallying & Rallycross, motorcross, and assorted stunt stuff from paragliding to Baumgartner's space jump. 

The new Honda deal is surely a strengthening of their resolve in F1, not a backwards step

stickyfiddle

Haas apparently announcing something at 9am UK time. I'm guessing either a new sponsor/partnership (something american? Maserati?), or re-signing of drivers, or hiring Eric Boullier...??!!

sinbaadi

Red Bull isn't really any more a drinks company than it is an F1 company.  It's just a brand and marketing masterpiece, the drink is licensed from a Thai company.

Cols

stickyfiddle said:

Haas apparently announcing something at 9am UK time. I'm guessing either a new sponsor/partnership (something american? Maserati?), or re-signing of drivers, or hiring Eric Boullier...??!!

Interesting!  Slightly early for a midfield team to be announcing drivers for next year, and neither of the incumbents have sufficiently disgraced themselves to be replaced mid season.  I’m calling Maserati branding.

Garthy

Grosjean is a donkey though.

Cols

Garthy said:

Grosjean is a donkey though.

A donkey that finished 4th at the last GP.

stickyfiddle

Hmm, possibly just a new sponsor for Haas  - "Peak Coolants", apparently? 

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

People keep saying that but I haven't seen any evidence of it. 

Red Bull is a drinks company that has always had motorsport and extreme sports at the heart of its marketing. I'm sure F1 isn't quite as high-priority as it may have been when they were rinsing everyone, but it's still a big part of their strategy, alongside MotoGP, the Air Race, Rallying & Rallycross, motorcross, and assorted stunt stuff from paragliding to Baumgartner's space jump. 

The new Honda deal is surely a strengthening of their resolve in F1, not a backwards step

There have been plenty of rumours some fuelled by Ross Brawn. Red Bull were supposed to be pulling out of team ownership but remaining a sponsor. The sister team's switch to Honda engines was supposed to herald the sale of the team to Honda to become a works team. I guess a lot of this will hinge on what happens with engine specs/regs post 2021.

http://www.f1i.com/news/279490-red-bull-buyout-porsche-thesis-gathers-pace.html

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

People keep saying that but I haven't seen any evidence of it. 

Red Bull is a drinks company that has always had motorsport and extreme sports at the heart of its marketing. I'm sure F1 isn't quite as high-priority as it may have been when they were rinsing everyone, but it's still a big part of their strategy, alongside MotoGP, the Air Race, Rallying & Rallycross, motorcross, and assorted stunt stuff from paragliding to Baumgartner's space jump. 

The new Honda deal is surely a strengthening of their resolve in F1, not a backwards step

There have been plenty of rumours some fuelled by Ross Brawn. Red Bull were supposed to be pulling out of team ownership but remaining a sponsor. The sister team's switch to Honda engines was supposed to herald the sale of the team to Honda to become a works team. I guess a lot of this will hinge on what happens with engine specs/regs post 2021.

http://www.f1i.com/news/279490-red-bull-buyout-porsche-thesis-gathers-pace.html

I’ve seen all the rumours too, it’s just that they’ve all come to nothing so far. I can believe they might be willing to sell to a Honda or VW-group and remain as lead sponsor, but I don’t see any appetite to leave F1 altogether

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

People keep saying that but I haven't seen any evidence of it. 

Red Bull is a drinks company that has always had motorsport and extreme sports at the heart of its marketing. I'm sure F1 isn't quite as high-priority as it may have been when they were rinsing everyone, but it's still a big part of their strategy, alongside MotoGP, the Air Race, Rallying & Rallycross, motorcross, and assorted stunt stuff from paragliding to Baumgartner's space jump. 

The new Honda deal is surely a strengthening of their resolve in F1, not a backwards step

There have been plenty of rumours some fuelled by Ross Brawn. Red Bull were supposed to be pulling out of team ownership but remaining a sponsor. The sister team's switch to Honda engines was supposed to herald the sale of the team to Honda to become a works team. I guess a lot of this will hinge on what happens with engine specs/regs post 2021.

http://www.f1i.com/news/279490-red-bull-buyout-porsche-thesis-gathers-pace.html

I’ve seen all the rumours too, it’s just that they’ve all come to nothing so far. I can believe they might be willing to sell to a Honda or VW-group and remain as lead sponsor, but I don’t see any appetite to leave F1 altogether

I don't think anything will happen until the new engine regs are agreed and published. However, Ross Brawn has hinted strongly that there are new companies wanting to enter F1 - he's not prone exaggeration. He also wants to ditch DRS and bring back the noise, speed and the ability to overtake without driver aids.

Fretwired

Looks like grid penalties for Hamilton and Bottas this weekend. The FIA need to scrap these stupid penalties ..

Garthy

Cols said:

Garthy said:

Grosjean is a donkey though.

A donkey that finished 4th at the last GP.

A broken clock is right twice a day too.

One good result in 9 is terrible, and that 4th place is the only points finish he's had all season. Even Stroll and Sirotkin scored points before Grosjean.

rlw

Grosjean is a good driver not being helped by his car. IMO.

stickyfiddle

He clearly struggles a bit with balance, but when he's happy he's still really quick. I suspect he's been over-driving a bit this year in particular, because he knows the car is capable of quick times, but it's not easy to get them at every track. 

Garthy

Cols said:

Garthy said:

Grosjean is a donkey though.

A donkey that finished 4th at the last GP.

Donkey crashed in FP1 for forgetting to press a button.

Cols

Garthy said:

Cols said:

Garthy said:

Grosjean is a donkey though.

A donkey that finished 4th at the last GP.

Donkey crashed in FP1 for forgetting to press a button.

Oops.

Still 0.7s faster than his team mate (who’s been hauled up in front of the beak to face charges of being Kevin Magnussen).

Let’s see how fast Grosjean is tomorrow in the entirely new car the mechanics will have to build up overnight.