More powerful 5E3?

Greatape

TheMarlin said:

Petepassion said:

Just a note to say I don’t tweak the audio in these clips(not that anyone is saying I do). Filmed with a Sony AZ1 action cam. I mix the audio from its stereo condenser mics with the audio from my Zoom H6 stereo condenser mics all onto a free movie maker. No EQ or effects added.
   Although when I record an actual clip of me just playing guitar and singing a song I sometimes add a little slap back to the vocals.
  Yeah, the Wienbrock is loud, but quite small for a 30w and can turn down for home use. Great little amp.

I didn’t say you did that, just a general YouTube observation. A YouTube video is no substitute for your own ears. 

I personally like amps that reward pick dynamics, pick light, lovely, whack the strings and it’s a physical as well as an aural experience. Windows feel like they’ll pop out of the frames. Probably why I like powerful valve amps with big transformers. That experience doesn’t come across in YouTube videos. 

I agree, and this is why my holy grail amp is the 90's RI 2x10 Vibroverb....

theterracat

Petepassion said:

Picked up the Wienbrock Gringo and had a quick plingkerty plonk on it tonight, and the Gringo is Bingo! For the money this is a beautiful amp and many tonal options considering the appearance of the top panel.
   Not quite a 5e3, but gets close and in some ways better. But I won’t know for sure until it’s covered a couple of rehearsals.
   Dilemma is I’ve just been offered a Dr Z Maz 18 Combo at a very good price. Nothing like a 5e3, but by all accounts a great amp.
    Oh well, the Hook R20 should be ready for sale by the weekend…but that sounds awesome too…should have stuck to motorcycles 

If you wanted a true 5e3 circuit but adaptable to being  made louder, I am pondering selling my Rift Tweed combo. It has 6V6s but is the modded version that can take 6L6s with a simple re-bias - which will get you louder. . . Also, even with the 6V6s I need to use the power scaling in order to play at home. Too loud. (Or I have also disconnected the speaker in the cab, and output it into my fryette PS2 and back out into my 2x12 zilla cab which gets plenty girth and projection.)

bertie

Greatape said:

I agree, and this is why my holy grail amp is the 90's RI 2x10 Vibroverb....

I had a 90s Vibrolux reissue - 2x10,  (the blackface with cream knobs).............absolutely unusable at home, more noisy than a noisy thing at lower volumes and MASSIVELY LOUD otherise.

Out and out, gigging only amp

Greatape

bertie said:

Greatape said:

I agree, and this is why my holy grail amp is the 90's RI 2x10 Vibroverb....

I had a 90s Vibrolux reissue - 2x10,  (the blackface with cream knobs).............absolutely unusable at home, more noisy than a noisy thing at lower volumes and MASSIVELY LOUD otherise.

Out and out, gigging only amp

Yes, but it was GLORIOUS!

bertie

Greatape said:

bertie said:

Greatape said:

I agree, and this is why my holy grail amp is the 90's RI 2x10 Vibroverb....

I had a 90s Vibrolux reissue - 2x10,  (the blackface with cream knobs).............absolutely unusable at home, more noisy than a noisy thing at lower volumes and MASSIVELY LOUD otherise.

Out and out, gigging only amp

Yes, but it was GLORIOUS!

not really,  I sold it after 2 weeks

ecc83

One thing bugs me and I wish I had had time to investigate it...

A couple of EL34s in fixed bias deliver a nominal 50W but I never checked a Stage 60 e.g that could not belt out 80W at 10% THD!

The EL84/6V6 have half the anode dissipation at 12W of the EL34 and so in FB should comfortably push out ~25W and at 10% THD nearer 30W making such a configuration easily loud enough for almost any pub gig.

So, where are these 25/30W 2X EL84 amps? Has anyone tried and just found them nasty or very unreliable?

Dave.

Petepassion

theterracat said:

Petepassion said:

Picked up the Wienbrock Gringo and had a quick plingkerty plonk on it tonight, and the Gringo is Bingo! For the money this is a beautiful amp and many tonal options considering the appearance of the top panel.
   Not quite a 5e3, but gets close and in some ways better. But I won’t know for sure until it’s covered a couple of rehearsals.
   Dilemma is I’ve just been offered a Dr Z Maz 18 Combo at a very good price. Nothing like a 5e3, but by all accounts a great amp.
    Oh well, the Hook R20 should be ready for sale by the weekend…but that sounds awesome too…should have stuck to motorcycles 

If you wanted a true 5e3 circuit but adaptable to being  made louder, I am pondering selling my Rift Tweed combo. It has 6V6s but is the modded version that can take 6L6s with a simple re-bias - which will get you louder. . . Also, even with the 6V6s I need to use the power scaling in order to play at home. Too loud. (Or I have also disconnected the speaker in the cab, and output it into my fryette PS2 and back out into my 2x12 zilla cab which gets plenty girth and projection.)

I would like to try one of those Rift tweeds, but I have stuff to clear first. Happy to trade/px if you see anything of mine you may be interested...

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/240132/fs-dr-z-maz-18-combo-725-1972-selmer-tnb-100w-head-fargen-bbvs2-combo#latest

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/245334/fs-boss-ms-3-280-xvive-w3-memory-80-thorpy-the-dane-135-caline-pure-sky-18#latest

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/244881/fs-ft-us-2018-fender-telecaster-performer-725#latest

theterracat

Shall have a look! I did just list the Rift Tweed and do have a few trade offers. I'll probably regret not having a 5e3 around.

DrCornelius

theterracat said:

Shall have a look! I did just list the Rift Tweed and do have a few trade offers. I'll probably regret not having a 5e3 around.

Did you go for that Bad Cat Cub in the end @theterracat ?

Petepassion

theterracat said:

Shall have a look! I did just list the Rift Tweed and do have a few trade offers. I'll probably regret not having a 5e3 around.

Some of that gear has now gone, I have a lovely Schecter Nick Johnston strat in the ads and a Thorpy Dane.
   I’m not pushing the amps at the moment as a gent on here is currently after one.
   Although I’ll be moving on the Brunetti head I recently bought on here…just not my thing.

theterracat

DrCornelius said:

theterracat said:

Shall have a look! I did just list the Rift Tweed and do have a few trade offers. I'll probably regret not having a 5e3 around.

Did you go for that Bad Cat Cub in the end @theterracat ?

Trying that one out Monday in person, trains willing. I'm a bit obsessed with old bad cats at the moment, but I'm a cautious type -- the pics of this one show a quirky controls set compared to the 2000s manual I found online...

theterracat

Petepassion said:

theterracat said:

Shall have a look! I did just list the Rift Tweed and do have a few trade offers. I'll probably regret not having a 5e3 around.

Some of that gear has now gone, I have a lovely Schecter Nick Johnston strat in the ads and a Thorpy Dane.
   I’m not pushing the amps at the moment as a gent on here is currently after one.
   Although I’ll be moving on the Brunetti head I recently bought on here…just not my thing.

You bought the Pleximan that was up? What didn't you like about it? Curious

Petepassion

I dunno, too modern, can make some great sounds but not as organic sounding as my old AC50.
    Seems quite compressed which is great for some, but not the way I play.

DrCornelius

theterracat said:

DrCornelius said:

theterracat said:

Shall have a look! I did just list the Rift Tweed and do have a few trade offers. I'll probably regret not having a 5e3 around.

Did you go for that Bad Cat Cub in the end @theterracat ?

Trying that one out Monday in person, trains willing. I'm a bit obsessed with old bad cats at the moment, but I'm a cautious type -- the pics of this one show a quirky controls set compared to the 2000s manual I found online...

Nice one , I messaged the chap during the week with a cheeky offer and he was very polite about it . Since I saw your post I’ve left it alone as I’m only really curious to try one rather than obsessed with them !

theterracat

DrCornelius said:

theterracat said:

DrCornelius said:

theterracat said:

Shall have a look! I did just list the Rift Tweed and do have a few trade offers. I'll probably regret not having a 5e3 around.

Did you go for that Bad Cat Cub in the end @theterracat ?

Trying that one out Monday in person, trains willing. I'm a bit obsessed with old bad cats at the moment, but I'm a cautious type -- the pics of this one show a quirky controls set compared to the 2000s manual I found online...

Nice one , I messaged the chap during the week with a cheeky offer and he was very polite about it . Since I saw your post I’ve left it alone as I’m only really curious to try one rather than obsessed with them !

Judging from your prior posts on here, I'm surprised you haven't tried a bit of everything to be honest! Will let you know if I pass on it.

ICBM

ecc83 said:

The EL84/6V6 have half the anode dissipation at 12W of the EL34 and so in FB should comfortably push out ~25W and at 10% THD nearer 30W making such a configuration easily loud enough for almost any pub gig.

So, where are these 25/30W 2X EL84 amps? Has anyone tried and just found them nasty or very unreliable?

Mesa claimed 30W from 2xEL84 in the F-30 using their patented ‘Dyna Watt’ circuit, but I measured one and got 22W as the true clean power. It wasn’t an amp I liked the sound of cranked up, all mids and very strident. I don’t think they were unreliable though, I never saw one for repair at all.

ecc83

ICBM said:

ecc83 said:

The EL84/6V6 have half the anode dissipation at 12W of the EL34 and so in FB should comfortably push out ~25W and at 10% THD nearer 30W making such a configuration easily loud enough for almost any pub gig.

So, where are these 25/30W 2X EL84 amps? Has anyone tried and just found them nasty or very unreliable?

Mesa claimed 30W from 2xEL84 in the F-30 using their patented ‘Dyna Watt’ circuit, but I measured one and got 22W as the true clean power. It wasn’t an amp I liked the sound of cranked up, all mids and very strident. I don’t think they were unreliable though, I never saw one for repair at all.

If it has taken several days for a man of your immense amp knowledge to come up with only one (bit crap?) "30 watt" EL84 amp then I would think a few people tried and dismissed the idea ICBM?

"The Book" says you can get 100W from a pair of EL34s but again, no examples I know of and in any case you need terrifyingly high anode voltages to get there and I doubt any modern EL34 could cope with much more than 600V?

In any case, parallel output valves make transformer design better and easier in almost every way.

Dave.

ICBM

ecc83 said:

If it has taken several days for a man of your immense amp knowledge to come up with only one (bit crap?) "30 watt" EL84 amp then I would think a few people tried and dismissed the idea ICBM?

To be honest I didn't open the thread for a while because I'm not a fan of 5E3s really, I just saw you'd posted on it and wondered what .

I don't know of any other amp that claims - let alone achieves - 30W from only two EL84s, which is why I measured the Mesa... and was not surprised when I found the claim 'tenuous' . Even Peavey claiming 50W from four is pushing it.

ecc83 said:

"The Book" says you can get 100W from a pair of EL34s but again, no examples I know of and in any case you need terrifyingly high anode voltages to get there and I doubt any modern EL34 could cope with much more than 600V?

There's an old Dynacord (German) which was supposed to give 90W from a pair, but I've never seen one. From reading about it, it was something like 800V for the HT, with the screens much lower.

MusicMan run their EL34s - or more accurately 6CA7s - at about those voltages too, but in a very unusual cathode-modulated configuration in very close to Class B, which is a trap for inexperienced techs as they have to be biased almost to cut-off - if you bias them to a 'normal' idle current they will fail very quickly, even with old-production valves.

p90fool

ICBM said:

ecc83 said:

"The Book" says you can get 100W from a pair of EL34s but again, no examples I know of and in any case you need terrifyingly high anode voltages to get there and I doubt any modern EL34 could cope with much more than 600V?

There's an old Dynacord (German) which was supposed to give 90W from a pair, but I've never seen one. From reading about it, it was something like 800V for the HT, with the screens much lower.

It would be interesting to test one, given that my Dynacord Reference 602 is the quietest 2xEL34 amp I've ever played.

ecc83

Interesting, by "quietest" do you mean a really good signal to noise ration or a wimp?

Dave.