Mary Poppins film age rating raised

Philly_Q

Kurtis said:

Am I the only one that thought it was crap? 

The actual film, you mean?  I don't think that affects the certificate.  Maybe they could add star ratings.  Or thumbs up or down.

Sporky

I've never seen it. 

Kurtis

Philly_Q said:

Kurtis said:

Am I the only one that thought it was crap? 

The actual film, you mean?  I don't think that affects the certificate.  Maybe they could add star ratings.  Or thumbs up or down.

No I get that, but people have mentioned that they really like it, or that it's somehow important that kids have access to it, so I thought I'd mention that I don't 

BillDL

english_bob said:

..... It's then for parents to decide whether exposing their child to the word "hottentots" is a problem for them. The vast majority will never be aware of the "issue", or not care. Some might end up having a "mummy, what's a hottentot?" conversation after the film because kids are weird like that. For the overwhelming majority this is an absolute non-story and the world keeps turning.

Exactly.  When the child asks "Mummy/Daddy, what's a 'Hottentot'?", the parent can whip out a smartphone and look it up in Wikipedia or some other website.  The informed and sensible parent could then respond:

"It's an ethonym that should not be used any more - well since the early 1980s really.  We shouldn't refer to Inuit, Yupik and Aleut people from up in the very cold areas of America, Canada, Russia, and Greenland as 'Eskimos' because it's an exonym that wrongly wraps up people of different tribes or races under one name.  Just because they look kind of similar and dress in a similar way it doesn't mean they are all the same.  They don't call themselves 'Eskimos', and neither do the Native American people like the Sioux, Cherokee, Lakota, and dozens of other tribes call themselves 'Red Indians'.  Those words were made up by other people that didn't know any better and were not interested in knowing better.

In the very bottom left side of Africa where it is very dry there are two main races of people that have lived there for thousands of years.  They are quite light-skinned compared with most of the other dark-skinned African people in the surrounding areas, are mostly quite small, and they speak a language that sounds odd to us because it uses clicking and popping noises.  They are the Khoi people (sometimes called KhoiKhoi) and the San people.  After a long time of living in roughly the same large area next to each other the Khoi and San mixed together quite a lot and had babies.  Because of this they are sometimes called Khoi-San people.  When white people began to live in those parts of Africa after their countries just walked in and took over, some white people called the Khoi and the San people 'bushmen', and somebody came up with the name 'Hottentot' to use when talking about them.  Nobody really knows how that word came about but some people think it might be because all the 'T' sounds in the word sound like the mouth clicks from their language.  The word itself wasn't really 'bad', like the 'N-word', but lots of people that didn't know about the Khoi and San people started to use it to mean any dark-skinned person from Africa, and many people started to use it as an insult.  Some people used the word in the same way as stupid people here call everybody from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka a 'Paki', and that is wrong and bad.

Ignore it and enjoy the movie".

Kurtis

Sporky said:

I've never seen it. 

It's rubbish! 

Sporky

Kurtis said:

Sporky said:

I've never seen it. 

It's rubbish! 

I saw the trailer and decided it wasn't for me. I font really like horror. 

Offset

Philly_Q said:

DB1 said:

Philly_Q said:

I was aware of the word Hottentot, I had probably read it in an old book somewhere.  I thought it was a term for a particular ethnic group and didn't realise it was considered offensive... but I know now.  So fair enough, Mary Poppins gets a PG.  That's preferable to censorship.

Just a thought @Philly_Q - you were a fan of the Greyfriars/Bunter books, weren’t you (as am I, of course)? Might you have read it there? In one of the stories that I can remember, someone is covered in soot and runs down the stairs, with Mr Prout (I think) asking if it was a mad (or escaped) Hottentot. That’s where I first heard the word, and I can’t really recall hearing it since. Much of that series of Cassell/Charles Skilton books was a copy and paste from earlier Magnet editions, so I suppose that it could have been originally published at any time between 1908 and 1940.

@DB1 it's entirely possible!  I'm pretty sure I've read it elsewhere as well, though.

I was a Bunter/Frank Richards fan as a kid.  Must say I can't remember Boris The Fat Owl Of The Remove ever referencing 'hottentots', but I too was familiar with the term.  Can't for the life of me think from where though.

Back to my original point - I still don't know what the BBFC was trying to achieve here.

VimFuego

mrs F was a big fan, she loved it. I was/am ambivalent, regarding it as merely meh. However I have to admit to humming "A Spoonful of Medicine" song when I ask my, um, guests to apply the lotion.

KevS

Where's Piers Morgan having a meltdown when you need him,His stance on non meat sausage,,it is cultural appropriation,,this makes  "The Woke" all hypocrites..Dick Van Dyke is now Mangina Van Non Binary..Arghhh !!!

I knew the term Hottentot,if the people themselves find it offensive and it is not their actual name they use,fair enough..When I was young,you were considered abnormal and a target, if you weren't Homophobic..Times change and people grow more sensitive and tolerant..If you are tolerant,it doesn't make you Gay..Well some Morons do still think that sadly..Mary Poppins was made 4 years before my birth...

..Nobody is trying to take away Julie Andrews,or say She is a White Supremacist..Maria Von Trapp was a full on Righteous Anti Nazi FFS..


We hopefully don't use the term N anymore or go to the P shop..The warning is an update to say it has language from a less enlightened time...It has zero to do with whether or not it is acceptable for Piers to identify as a Non White Lesbian Single Parent Sentient Entity or not... 


Could you please refrain from calling me Deep Fried Mars Bar Eating,Violent on Buckfast,Can't Understand a Damn thing you are saying and refer to me as Scottish instead..

Funkfingers

Musical_Mystery_Tour said:

Dick Van Dyke … struggling with alcoholism and apparently feeling suicidal. 

Julie Andrews has that effect on people.

•

It's the Hottentot women,
Gimme, gimme, gimme the Hottentot blues.

DB1

Offset said:

Philly_Q said:

DB1 said:

Philly_Q said:

I was aware of the word Hottentot, I had probably read it in an old book somewhere.  I thought it was a term for a particular ethnic group and didn't realise it was considered offensive... but I know now.  So fair enough, Mary Poppins gets a PG.  That's preferable to censorship.

Just a thought @Philly_Q - you were a fan of the Greyfriars/Bunter books, weren’t you (as am I, of course)? Might you have read it there? In one of the stories that I can remember, someone is covered in soot and runs down the stairs, with Mr Prout (I think) asking if it was a mad (or escaped) Hottentot. That’s where I first heard the word, and I can’t really recall hearing it since. Much of that series of Cassell/Charles Skilton books was a copy and paste from earlier Magnet editions, so I suppose that it could have been originally published at any time between 1908 and 1940.

@DB1 it's entirely possible!  I'm pretty sure I've read it elsewhere as well, though.

I was a Bunter/Frank Richards fan as a kid.  Must say I can't remember Boris The Fat Owl Of The Remove ever referencing 'hottentots', but I too was familiar with the term.  Can't for the life of me think from where though.

Back to my original point - I still don't know what the BBFC was trying to achieve here.

I'm actually still a fan - it reminds me of my childhood when my grandad used to take me to Selly Oak Library in Birmingham and my favourites were the yellow-jacketed Bunter books. In fact, I did have them all (38, I think) at one time, plus all of the Greyfriars Book Club editions and all of the Howard Baker facsimile series.

Very much of their time, of course and there are some pretty uncomfortable references in there. From 'Billy Bunter's Bargain', "Bunter clutched at the object on his head, and dragged it off. A face blacker than that of a Hottentot was revealed."

That's not the book, or the scene that I was referring to earlier, so it must have been used more than once - in fact, a search shows that. The author (Charles Hamilton aka Frank Richards) was born in 1876, so was middle aged a century ago! Very much of it's, and his, time in that respect.

Boring footnote - my great uncle actually was an author called Frank Richards - he wrote the excellent 'Old Soldiers Never Die'.

Philly_Q

Without going too far off topic, although the Billy Bunter books were "of their time" I don't think they did too badly on diversity and inclusivity.  There's certainly a bit of racial stereotyping in the character of Prince Hurree Jamset Ram Singh, but I don't recall him ever being portrayed negatively and he's one of the "Famous Five", the popular leadership group of The Remove.

Pjon

Kurtis said:

Am I the only one that thought it was crap? 

No. I don't think I ever fully watched it as a child and the bits of it I remember are so saccharine  that I'm not sure I could watch it as an adult. (I also hated Chitty Chitty Bang Bang when I was a child.) And both felt sooo old-fashioned to me when I was growing up despite being released very close to my birth. I can't imagine ever sitting down with my kids to watch it, there are so many better films out there and so little time.

The word hottentot will be familiar to anyone who has read much about the history of southern Africa.

DB1

Philly_Q said:

Without going too far off topic, although the Billy Bunter books were "of their time" I don't think they did too badly on diversity and inclusivity.  There's certainly a bit of racial stereotyping in the character of Prince Hurree Jamset Ram Singh, but I don't recall him ever being portrayed negatively and he's one of the "Famous Five", the popular leadership group of The Remove.

No, that's true - apart from the comedy English, he was portrayed as the most intelligent and perceptive of the group.

Timcito

Kurtis said:

Am I the only one that thought it was crap? 

It's one of my all-time favourite films, in any genre. 

Timcito

english_bob said:

The BBFC sensibly hold regular consultations with the public to gauge what's generally acceptable and what isn't. Naturally, some of those things have changed in the sixty-some years since Victim was first released, so some of the goalposts have- quite correctly- moved over the years. Likewise, "a bit of bare bosom" in isolation might not get you an 18 certificate any more.

Most of the big studio releases now (Marvel, Star Wars, etc) aim for a 12A certificate to attract the widest possible audience- it means that children of any age can see the film in the cinema with their parents, but adults who would be seeing the film without kids won't be put off by the "kids' film" stigma of a lower rating. The studios can arrange "advice" screenings with the BBFC prior to submitting the film for official classification so the assessors can advise on what to add in or take out to secure the rating they want.

Where, though, do they draw the line? Should they, for example, warn the public or raise the viewing age on films from the past that stereotype women as housewives or that promote heteronormativity by excluding gay relationships? The list of potentially offensive material is endless. 

TimmyO

Timcito said:

english_bob said:

The BBFC sensibly hold regular consultations with the public to gauge what's generally acceptable and what isn't. Naturally, some of those things have changed in the sixty-some years since Victim was first released, so some of the goalposts have- quite correctly- moved over the years. Likewise, "a bit of bare bosom" in isolation might not get you an 18 certificate any more.

Most of the big studio releases now (Marvel, Star Wars, etc) aim for a 12A certificate to attract the widest possible audience- it means that children of any age can see the film in the cinema with their parents, but adults who would be seeing the film without kids won't be put off by the "kids' film" stigma of a lower rating. The studios can arrange "advice" screenings with the BBFC prior to submitting the film for official classification so the assessors can advise on what to add in or take out to secure the rating they want.

Where, though, do they draw the line? Should they, for example, warn the public or raise the viewing age on films from the past that stereotype women as housewives or that promote heteronormativity by excluding gay relationships? The list of potentially offensive material is endless. 

If you go looking for it, say to make a contrary point, yes endless. 

Philly_Q

Timcito said:

Where, though, do they draw the line? Should they, for example, warn the public or raise the viewing age on films from the past that stereotype women as housewives or that promote heteronormativity by excluding gay relationships? The list of potentially offensive material is endless. 

How exactly does it inconvenience you if they warn the public or raise the viewing age for any reason?  The warnings are for the benefit of people who may be surprised or offended.  You're free to ignore them.

Timcito

Philly_Q said:

Timcito said:

Where, though, do they draw the line? Should they, for example, warn the public or raise the viewing age on films from the past that stereotype women as housewives or that promote heteronormativity by excluding gay relationships? The list of potentially offensive material is endless. 

How exactly does it inconvenience you if they warn the public or raise the viewing age for any reason?  The warnings are for the benefit of people who may be surprised or offended.  You're free to ignore them.

I think kowtowing to the petty-minded arrogance that compels some people to censor history because it fails to comply with their own transitory and limited worldview is a negative trend that goes beyond the immediate case in point. 

TimmyO

Timcito said:

Philly_Q said:

Timcito said:

Where, though, do they draw the line? Should they, for example, warn the public or raise the viewing age on films from the past that stereotype women as housewives or that promote heteronormativity by excluding gay relationships? The list of potentially offensive material is endless. 

How exactly does it inconvenience you if they warn the public or raise the viewing age for any reason?  The warnings are for the benefit of people who may be surprised or offended.  You're free to ignore them.

I think kowtowing to the petty-minded arrogance that compels some people to censor history because it fails to comply with their own transitory and limited worldview is a negative trend that goes beyond the immediate case in point. 

That would be awful, yes. 

It isn’t what’s happening.

But it would be awful. 

Meanwhile, the film has not been censored.