Gibson Quality

guitars4you

So there is a chance this story has been somehow concocted to suit his own YouTube story and probably  'exaggerated accordingly - Maybe or maybe not - Many of us are aware of various subtle blemishes on new Gibson Guitars that perhaps should not be there - But they are and they have been there for many many years - I've seen a few 'manufacturing errors and not just from a more recent era - I've seen, for example, not to long ago, an early 64 ES335, from the golden era, with a dowel plug under the finish, near the bridge,, owing to an error in manufacturing - Kind of so what 

My point here is that if anyone had purchased such a guitar mail order, with such defects, you'd simply return it - Either for a refund or replacement - No big deal and to most of us such a very 'bad example' is still an exception to the rule - If you saw it in a shop then a) you'd pass on it and b) wonder why the retailer did not return it to Gibson as/when they unpacked it upon arrival

It doesn't exonerate Gibson from doing what we expect from them and indeed for what we pay them for - But I do feel that this story is 'exaggerated'  and we on FB a making a big deal about it in some form or another - I agree that something doesn't stack up about his story

SteveRobinson

Well I'd like to hear Gibson's side of the story. 

stonevibe

I've seen whole batches of Gibsons firsthand sent to stores in poor condition. I worked in guitar stores, and they sent some real shockers.

I believe you can send it back directly to Gibson for US warranty issues.

It would make sense if the store you purchased from had no stock of the model you wanted. Gibson used to have the phone number on the Gibson site to do this; I haven't checked recently, though I'm guessing they will still deal directly with customers who purchased new from an authorised dealer.

elstoof

SixStringSage said:

But I can't say I've ever seen lint under the clear coat.  

Got a bit of lint on the fret binding of one of mine so it does happen tbf

stonevibe

Just checked and yeah, they still have contact details on the site.

In the event your Gibson Brands, Inc. instrument malfunctions, you should notify U.S. Gibson Brands, Inc. Consumer Service at 1-800-444-2766, service@gibson.com,

fnpt

To me, it looks that the binding flaws look like someone tried to roll the edges. I wouldn't be surprise if someone also tried to re-fret or do some work to the frets that went wrong. It's just too much going wrong in just one guitar to go unnoticed by QC, even Gibson's.

SlopeSoarer

SixStringSage said:

Offset said:

SixStringSage said:

...you can't complain that Gibson has poor QC when you also are acknowledging the guitar isn't new and you don't know where it's been.

The whole point is he bought a new guitar from his local dealer and because of issues with it, returned it (for reasons not entiely clear) direct to Gibson.  In exchange, Gibson sent him a replacement which did not appear to be new.  And was also a piece of shit.

I get that. All I'm saying is it's not appropriate to blame Gibson's QC when it's not a new guitar and the guy is looking into the camera and admitting he doesn't know if it's a return, refurb, or where it's been since leaving the factory. I'm not saying the guitar is in acceptable condition, but he has no clue if it's Gibson's fault or the next person's.

I remember Glen from Spectre did a video showing how Gibson sent him a bad QC Dave Mustaine model to review, so I'm also not saying it's not possible that Gibson would do that.

But Glen got a bonafide factory model to review. This guy is telling us a story that raises additional questions, so I find it hard to take it all at face value. 

Did you by chance miss that the guy had bought a new guitar?

According to the video the guy has bought a new Gibson Les Paul from a local authorised Gibson dealer where he witnessed the box being opened, then returned it directly to Gibson because of flaws (@stonevibe gives good reasoning as to why he may have taken this route). Gibson send out another guitar in shit less than perfect condition, who else is there to blame for QC? 

SixStringSage

SlopeSoarer said:

Did you by chance miss that the guy had bought a new guitar?

According to the video the guy has bought a new Gibson Les Paul from a local authorised Gibson dealer where he witnessed the box being opened, then returned it directly to Gibson because of flaws (@stonevibe gives good reasoning as to why he may have taken this route). Gibson send out another guitar in shit less than perfect condition, who else is there to blame for QC? 

This is from the transcript, about the very guitar being shown in the video. This is from 9.20: 

"when this replacement guitar showed up it was obvious that this is not a brand new guitar um there's no protective plastic film on the pick guard there are some marks on the pick guard and some you know smudgies around the pickups and things in the bridge and you can tell this guitar was played somebody took that film off and played the guitar and uh you know maybe they had an issue with it maybe it went back through the return shop maybe it's a refurb maybe it was a demo guitar I don't know what this guitar was but this is not a brand new guitar uh straight from from the factory"

stonevibe said:

Just checked and yeah, they still have contact details on the site.

In the event your Gibson Brands, Inc. instrument malfunctions, you should notify U.S. Gibson Brands, Inc. Consumer Service at 1-800-444-2766, service@gibson.com,

It would be interesting for one of our USA members to call that number and ask if Gibson will send a replacement guitar to one purchased in store. If they agree, it will satisfy one of the biggest problems with his story.

elstoof said:

SixStringSage said:

But I can't say I've ever seen lint under the clear coat.  

Got a bit of lint on the fret binding of one of mine so it does happen tbf

Have you seen a guitar like this though? https://imgur.com/a/uBS3KzV It looks like the paper on a lint roller after it's done a couple of passes on a jacket.

 And what's happening with the headstock, it looks like someone has got white paint drops on it? https://imgur.com/a/9Uhrpwp

guitars4you

Not sure if it is still Gibson's policy or not - But whilst you, the customer, have your legal rights and a warranty period, I believe there is/was a 30 day 'cooling off' period between the dealer and Gibson in the event of any '2nd grade' Gibson Guitars that needed to be returned to the factory - Might be even less than 30 days - As such the dealer needs to open all the boxes within a day or so of arrival to undertake their own QC - So no use opening a box, just before you send it to a customer, yet it has been in stock for 120 days or so, then find it is a poor example, as Gibson won't respond to the dealer

SixStringSage

guitars4you said:

Not sure if it is still Gibson's policy or not - But whilst you, the customer, have your legal rights and a warranty period, I believe there is/was a 30 day 'cooling off' period between the dealer and Gibson in the event of any '2nd grade' Gibson Guitars that needed to be returned to the factory - Might be even less than 30 days - As such the dealer needs to open all the boxes within a day or so of arrival to undertake their own QC - So no use opening a box, just before you send it to a customer, yet it has been in stock for 120 days or so, then find it is a poor example, as Gibson won't respond to the dealer

Is that the same as if the customer wants to claim on their warranty later?

My first Les Paul had to go back to Gibson. It was perfect when I bought it but some months later I noticed a 'hole' in the nitro under the neck pickup, and I could peel it like a protective film. I took it back to where I bought it, they verified it wasn't anything I'd done, and they contacted Gibson. Gibson said they'd do a straight swap for another guitar, and they sent that guitar to the dealer.

Perhaps that's different for me in the UK compared to their US policy, but I had no way to go to them directly and if I'd tried to they would have sent me back to the retailer. Yet it would have been long after this 30-day cooling off period for the dealer.

guitars4you

SixStringSage said:

guitars4you said:

Not sure if it is still Gibson's policy or not - But whilst you, the customer, have your legal rights and a warranty period, I believe there is/was a 30 day 'cooling off' period between the dealer and Gibson in the event of any '2nd grade' Gibson Guitars that needed to be returned to the factory - Might be even less than 30 days - As such the dealer needs to open all the boxes within a day or so of arrival to undertake their own QC - So no use opening a box, just before you send it to a customer, yet it has been in stock for 120 days or so, then find it is a poor example, as Gibson won't respond to the dealer

Is that the same as if the customer wants to claim on their warranty later?

My first Les Paul had to go back to Gibson. It was perfect when I bought it but some months later I noticed a 'hole' in the nitro under the neck pickup, and I could peel it like a protective film. I took it back to where I bought it, they verified it wasn't anything I'd done, and they contacted Gibson. Gibson said they'd do a straight swap for another guitar, and they sent that guitar to the dealer.

Perhaps that's different for me in the UK compared to their US policy, but I had no way to go to them directly and if I'd tried to they would have sent me back to the retailer. Yet it would have been long after this 30-day cooling off period for the dealer.

I've not sold new Gibson Guitars for a few years now, so ring rusty on all the latest comings and goings - But recall a major UK dealer telling me about 'his rights' to return to Gibson was only a matter of days after arrival

It is a different criteria once the dealer has sold to you as UK law protects you anyway - Plus your rights and point of complaint is with the dealer, who intern works with Gibson 

Casabg

stickyfiddle said:

How many times will we go around this loop?

People who buy Gibsons need to accept that tops are hand sanded, binding is hand-scraped, finishes are hand-sprayed. 

People who want absolute cosmetic perfection should buy a PRS. 

Gibson has never been the company that puts out literal micron-level perfection and it never will be. 

So are Collings guitars, hand sanding scraping and spraying, doesn’t mean botched. The results in this example are truly shoddy. 

Secret_Sam said:

Owned by a private equity consortium these days. 

Given the way private equity works, you would expect them to try to raise prices and cut costs under the cover of lots of marketing smokescreen.  Like their new theme park shop in London.

Maybe their real target market doesn't notice the quality difference if they know that there is a secret room with real rock stars in it somewhere in the shop. 

SixStringSage

guitars4you said:

SixStringSage said:

guitars4you said:

Not sure if it is still Gibson's policy or not - But whilst you, the customer, have your legal rights and a warranty period, I believe there is/was a 30 day 'cooling off' period between the dealer and Gibson in the event of any '2nd grade' Gibson Guitars that needed to be returned to the factory - Might be even less than 30 days - As such the dealer needs to open all the boxes within a day or so of arrival to undertake their own QC - So no use opening a box, just before you send it to a customer, yet it has been in stock for 120 days or so, then find it is a poor example, as Gibson won't respond to the dealer

Is that the same as if the customer wants to claim on their warranty later?

My first Les Paul had to go back to Gibson. It was perfect when I bought it but some months later I noticed a 'hole' in the nitro under the neck pickup, and I could peel it like a protective film. I took it back to where I bought it, they verified it wasn't anything I'd done, and they contacted Gibson. Gibson said they'd do a straight swap for another guitar, and they sent that guitar to the dealer.

Perhaps that's different for me in the UK compared to their US policy, but I had no way to go to them directly and if I'd tried to they would have sent me back to the retailer. Yet it would have been long after this 30-day cooling off period for the dealer.

I've not sold new Gibson Guitars for a few years now, so ring rusty on all the latest comings and goings - But recall a major UK dealer telling me about 'his rights' to return to Gibson was only a matter of days after arrival

It is a different criteria once the dealer has sold to you as UK law protects you anyway - Plus your rights and point of complaint is with the dealer, who intern works with Gibson 

So I think this is basically the area I've been getting stuck on with the video, and your earlier point about Gibson's 30-day window. As I understand it, that window doesn't apply to the end customer, and the end customer would need to deal with the store not Gibson.

I've just re-watched the first 10 minutes and he says that he went directly to Gibson because "I'd played all the gold tops in the store." But that doesn't explain why the store wouldn't/couldn't send the guitar back and be the liaison with Gibson. 

SlopeSoarer

SixStringSage said:

SlopeSoarer said:

Did you by chance miss that the guy had bought a new guitar?

According to the video the guy has bought a new Gibson Les Paul from a local authorised Gibson dealer where he witnessed the box being opened, then returned it directly to Gibson because of flaws (@stonevibe gives good reasoning as to why he may have taken this route). Gibson send out another guitar in shit less than perfect condition, who else is there to blame for QC? 

This is from the transcript, about the very guitar being shown in the video. This is from 9.20: 

"when this replacement guitar showed up it was obvious that this is not a brand new guitar um there's no protective plastic film on the pick guard there are some marks on the pick guard and some you know smudgies around the pickups and things in the bridge and you can tell this guitar was played somebody took that film off and played the guitar and uh you know maybe they had an issue with it maybe it went back through the return shop maybe it's a refurb maybe it was a demo guitar I don't know what this guitar was but this is not a brand new guitar uh straight from from the factory"

I must be missing your point!

The guy returns a guitar he bought brand new (as stated at just after 4:30) and Gibson accept there are problems with it. Gibson send out a replacement guitar, the guy hasn't picked this guitar, Gibson have. That to me is Gibson's responsibility. Gibson are responsible for their quality control... or maybe not!

Casabg

Thank you all, I’ve just read through this thread after posting it before going to bed last night and I’m pleasantly surprised by the huge number of responses. I’ve been flirting with the idea of buying a new Les Paul for some time. I owned two collectors choice LPs around nine years ago and both had very noticeable tooling marks on the fretboards which for some reason really put me off playing them. Perhaps it was the feeling that I had foolishly bought duff examples or that I’d just been unlucky, Yes, I should’ve checked in more detail before buying so my fault. I sold both for significantly more than I bought them for, but I’m now very wary of Gibson…….thanks 

guitars4you

SixStringSage said:

guitars4you said:

SixStringSage said:

guitars4you said:

Not sure if it is still Gibson's policy or not - But whilst you, the customer, have your legal rights and a warranty period, I believe there is/was a 30 day 'cooling off' period between the dealer and Gibson in the event of any '2nd grade' Gibson Guitars that needed to be returned to the factory - Might be even less than 30 days - As such the dealer needs to open all the boxes within a day or so of arrival to undertake their own QC - So no use opening a box, just before you send it to a customer, yet it has been in stock for 120 days or so, then find it is a poor example, as Gibson won't respond to the dealer

Is that the same as if the customer wants to claim on their warranty later?

My first Les Paul had to go back to Gibson. It was perfect when I bought it but some months later I noticed a 'hole' in the nitro under the neck pickup, and I could peel it like a protective film. I took it back to where I bought it, they verified it wasn't anything I'd done, and they contacted Gibson. Gibson said they'd do a straight swap for another guitar, and they sent that guitar to the dealer.

Perhaps that's different for me in the UK compared to their US policy, but I had no way to go to them directly and if I'd tried to they would have sent me back to the retailer. Yet it would have been long after this 30-day cooling off period for the dealer.

I've not sold new Gibson Guitars for a few years now, so ring rusty on all the latest comings and goings - But recall a major UK dealer telling me about 'his rights' to return to Gibson was only a matter of days after arrival

It is a different criteria once the dealer has sold to you as UK law protects you anyway - Plus your rights and point of complaint is with the dealer, who intern works with Gibson 

So I think this is basically the area I've been getting stuck on with the video, and your earlier point about Gibson's 30-day window. As I understand it, that window doesn't apply to the end customer, and the end customer would need to deal with the store not Gibson.

I've just re-watched the first 10 minutes and he says that he went directly to Gibson because "I'd played all the gold tops in the store." But that doesn't explain why the store wouldn't/couldn't send the guitar back and be the liaison with Gibson. 

Yes you as the consumer deal direct with the dealer you purchased it from - Be that say Anderton's or Gibson Garage - And that small window is between Gibson and the dealer for recent deliveries - It has no impact on your legal rights after purchase, within the appropriate warranty period 

SixStringSage

SlopeSoarer said:

SixStringSage said:

SlopeSoarer said:

Did you by chance miss that the guy had bought a new guitar?

According to the video the guy has bought a new Gibson Les Paul from a local authorised Gibson dealer where he witnessed the box being opened, then returned it directly to Gibson because of flaws (@stonevibe gives good reasoning as to why he may have taken this route). Gibson send out another guitar in shit less than perfect condition, who else is there to blame for QC? 

This is from the transcript, about the very guitar being shown in the video. This is from 9.20: 

"when this replacement guitar showed up it was obvious that this is not a brand new guitar um there's no protective plastic film on the pick guard there are some marks on the pick guard and some you know smudgies around the pickups and things in the bridge and you can tell this guitar was played somebody took that film off and played the guitar and uh you know maybe they had an issue with it maybe it went back through the return shop maybe it's a refurb maybe it was a demo guitar I don't know what this guitar was but this is not a brand new guitar uh straight from from the factory"

I must be missing your point!

He returns a guitar he bought brand new (as stated at just after 4:30) and Gibson accept there are problems so he returns it. Gibson send out a replacement guitar, the guy hasn't picked this guitar, Gibson have. That to me is Gibson's responsibility. Gibson are responsible for their quality control... or maybe not!

Apologies if I've been unclear. I'll try to clarify:

- the guitar in the video is in bad condition and shouldn't be sold as anything short of a factory second
- it is Gibson's responsibility to do adequate QC on the guitars leaving their factory
- the guitar on display in the video is, according to Linny in the video, not "new." I consider this a potentially important point because he says "I don't know what this guitar was." So my point about who gets blamed is that yes, Gibson gets blamed for QC on new guitars, but we can't necessarily blame Gibson for a guitar with a history we don't know about. We aren't to know that someone didn't keep it in poor conditions that led to fret problems, for example.
- I have my suspicions because there are a couple of things that don't make sense (at first glance). Combine that with this being a very small channel that hasn't posted in a year or so, and it being a business page not a personal one, and you can see why there's an incentive for a video that is likely to get a heap of views quickly.

As I said earlier, I am not saying he's lying. I'm saying that there are enough funky details at play for me to be sceptical.

Let's look at the video again. Do we see him take that guitar out of the box? No. Can we be certain it came out of that box? No. Do we ever see the camera go up close and show us the problems as part of the video? No, they are all done as overlaid photos. Do we know this guy? No. Could he be lying? Yes. Could he be telling the truth? Yes. 

How is it that he's found a shop where every Gibson Les Paul is in horrific shape? And how is it that he's then bypassed the dealer with a guitar he bought from them and gone straight to Gibson? 

It's just a remarkably different experience to my own. Ten years of playing and buying Gibsons and the only blemish I've ever found is some paint colour in the binding. 

Casabg said:

Thank you all, I’ve just read through this thread after posting it before going to bed last night and I’m pleasantly surprised by the huge number of responses. I’ve been flirting with the idea of buying a new Les Paul for some time. I owned two collectors choice LPs around nine years ago and both had very noticeable tooling marks on the fretboards which for some reason really put me off playing them. Perhaps it was the feeling that I had foolishly bought duff examples or that I’d just been unlucky, Yes, I should’ve checked in more detail before buying so my fault. I sold both for significantly more than I bought them for, but I’m now very wary of Gibson…….thanks 

I'd look at it this way: if this video was representative of a typical Gibson, they would be out of business. Even if people kept buying them, no business can operate on the economics of sending out 5 guitars for the price of 1. Since the 2019 management change there has been very broad agreement that they've massively improved QC on a consistent basis — not to say there are never any problematic ones, but that they're consistently putting out guitars in great condition. It's still a good idea to play them in person before buying, but even then, Sweetwater and Wildwood have excellent reputations for helping customers choose the best examples and having solid return policies. Likewise, in the UK GuitarGuitar and Anderton's have excellent customer support and returns policies. 

Unfortunately, negativity is popular. So lots of channels will make content with negative angles, and then it gets widely shared. Meantime, all the happy customers are too busy playing their guitars. It's the same with anything — join a Facebook group for your car brand, or your TV brand, or whatever, and you'll quickly see many people use these groups for customer support, so the perception is that things are much worse than they really are. People don't often go in these groups to say that everything is working great.

And if it helps to hear an opposing view to balance out Linny's, I'll happily be that counter-weight and tell you that I have never had an issue with Gibson guitars. Ok my very first one developed a small issue with the nitro finish, and Gibson did a quibble-free swap and upgraded the model in the process. Even the many that I have played in shops have been absolutely fine. I can't tell you how many that is. When I bought the Dove on Monday this week I must have played at least 6 Gibsons (2 Doves, a J-45, 2 Hummingbirds, a Songwriter), when I bought my R9 last year I played probably a dozen and a few acoustics for the fun of it. In 2014 when I got my first I remember playing at least 3, including a Slash signature. My first custom shop was secondhand and that was flawless. My J-15 was purchased in 2018 and I played countless that day (I actually went in for a Martin or Taylor and left with a Gibson, chosen on sound and feel without knowing what brand I was playing). At the start of 2020 I wanted to try out these new '50s and '60s models, played a bunch of both, all of which were great, and I left with a tobacco burst '50s Standard. A couple of years before that I was tasked with helping a bandmate choose a Gibson, and they were all great too. 

Again, I'm not saying there aren't any flawed ones, just that it's very easy to be online and think Gibson is routinely releasing third-rate instruments that aren't worth our consideration. It's just not true, at least in my experience. 

SixStringSage

guitars4you said:

SixStringSage said:

So I think this is basically the area I've been getting stuck on with the video, and your earlier point about Gibson's 30-day window. As I understand it, that window doesn't apply to the end customer, and the end customer would need to deal with the store not Gibson.

I've just re-watched the first 10 minutes and he says that he went directly to Gibson because "I'd played all the gold tops in the store." But that doesn't explain why the store wouldn't/couldn't send the guitar back and be the liaison with Gibson. 

Yes you as the consumer deal direct with the dealer you purchased it from - Be that say Anderton's or Gibson Garage - And that small window is between Gibson and the dealer for recent deliveries - It has no impact on your legal rights after purchase, within the appropriate warranty period 

Thanks for clarifying. So what I don't understand from the video is how Linny purchased a guitar from a shop, and then bypassed that shop to send it to Gibson himself. His reasoning of "I played all the goldtops in the shop" doesn't seem to be a satisfactory answer because the owner could still be the liaison between Linny and Gibson, and arrange for the replacement guitar to be sent to the store. Somehow, he's completely removed the shop and is now entirely dealing with Gibson himself.

euan

I’m am baffled why you saying he says the guitar isn’t new as if he got it from somewhere else. It was manufactured in January. He got it from Gibson as a replacement for a low quality new guitar. If he got the guitar from Gibson with the faults pictured, it has poor QC. 

There’s a lot of words calling this man credibility in question and defending Gibson. 

SixStringSage

euan said:

I’m am baffled why you saying he says the guitar isn’t new as if he got it from somewhere else. It was manufactured in January. He got it from Gibson as a replacement for a low quality new guitar. If he got the guitar from Gibson with the faults pictured, it has poor QC. 

I'm not saying it - HE said it, I'm repeating it. I haven't said it isn't poor QC, I've said that by his own admission we don't know what the guitar's history is and whether someone did things they shouldn't have. Sure, that doesn't mean Gibson should have sent it to him but we don't know any of that either. This is a random guy on the internet telling us things without offering any evidence of it. We don't see him open the box, we don't see the guitar's serial number, we are just listening to a stranger and assuming he's being entirely honest.