Gibson Quality

SixStringSage · April 4

euan said:

There is still a stark difference with Linny's situation though, where he's evidently trying to grow online channels and is making a bold claim that he can't find a single Gibson to his standards and Gibson can't send him one either — and we're not only supposed to believe this stranger who's appeared from nowhere, but I'm being downright unreasonable to point out that we don't necessarily need to rush to judgement off the back of the video.

If you repeat something over and over it doesn’t make it true.

I have as much proof to say you are astroturfing for Gibson as you have to say he is creating false controversy to gain exposure for his products.

That's fine, accuse me of that if you want. Of course, you'll need to conveniently overlook my repeated comments about Gibson's QC issues and the guitar in the video being horrendous and Gibson should never have sent it to them if they did so, but sure, consider me astroturfing if it makes my questions easier to dismiss. Remove the accusation about his channel, too, if you want. Where does that leave us? Still with unsubstantiated claims and a story that raised some questions right at the start of this thread — and mine were not the first.

Is Linny a member of this forum where someone can say they know him? AFAIA, he is something of an unknown quantity. We do know he sells leather guitar straps because he told us that. So there is a business incentive to him making clickbait content for guitar players, whether you want to acknowledge that or not.

What reason do you think he has for now making a video about the manufacture location of CTS pots, if it's so unreasonable of me to suggest that he's making clickbait videos for business purposes?

Bigsby · April 4

SixStringSage said:

Bigsby said:

Once again, after their initial offer, the shop were not involved, and that is the point: You can deal with Gibson directly, even though you haven't done so yourself. And beyond that, Gibson had no reason to offer a replacement they didn't have, it would've been silly to do so.

ok so just to summarise then:

- Gibson didn't offer you a replacement and you didn't ask for one
- your experience doesn't validate Linny's version of events

To summarise:

- Gibson didn't have a replacement to offer (which is not the same as not offering one when they have one available). Asking for one would've been pointless. How hard is that for you to grasp?

- My experience validates the claim that customers can deal with Gibson directly and don't have to go through a dealer in every situation, (even though you haven't discovered this for yourself), and thus counters the argument that the guy who made the video couldn't have dealt directly with Gibson.

Danielsguitars · April 4

notsopro said:

Danielsguitars said:

notsopro said:

Danielsguitars said:

notsopro said:

Danielsguitars said:

SixStringSage said:

Danielsguitars said:

Having stripped the back of a Murphy my opinion is they couldn't give a shit, it is the worst LP I've refinished too.

If it comes across as though I'm attacking Gibson then you'd be right, considering the costs they better be damn near perfect and at least come set up and stay in tune, play authentic LMAO.

What was wrong with it? I didn't like any of the lighter finishing on the Murphy models I played, particularly as they even come with a little warning in the case that the finish is more brittle and prone to additional wear. Fortunately the VOS were all superb though (this thread had me going back to inspect mine and it's flawless)

You obviously missed all the fun, I posted up a clip taking gaffer tape to the back of the neck because it was falling off long before I got it, I've had to be so careful masking up and even then the fucking finish has peeled off on the logo, this is the lowest tack btw and putting it on my clothes, the front will fall off at some point imo.
Then I found a gap between the headstock veneer and neck and they just left it, you couldn't see any grain whatsoever on the back not even the maple it was that dark, it was a nightmare to get clean, lesson learned double the price next time, I've still got to sort the headstock that wasn't part of the job, to say I'm pissed off is an understatement.

that seems the right tool for the job right... bit of gaffer tape to the back of a guitar neck, have a right chuckle about it stick it on Instagram. perfectly normal behavior from a fellow luthier.

Lol I've said before the chuckle Is disbelief and I really don't care what you think, you're not the one dealing with it, this also helps others who finish seeing what I'm dealing with and they can charge accordingly.

I won't be doing anymore of these unless they're paying double and that's if I fancy doing it.

They did not accept this back from the original customer so they get all the flack they deserve imo.

with the greatest of respect I don't think other Luthiers are watching your Instagram with a view of getting an idea of pricing. I'm sure you don't care what I think, but as discussed in your thread this isn't your forum and you can't silence people who don't agree with you.

With regards to charging double, does this also apply to the Gibson style guitars that are advertised on your website? I do find it a little interesting that someone with your views on Gibson is happy to 'advertise' guitars that look like they're very much inspired by Gibson.. or am I misreading what a 'Royal 59' might be based on?

last point, elstoof has addressed.

If you bothered to look at my single cuts you'll see they're built nothing like a Gibson in every way, it's a single cut carved top, bigsby made a single cut before gibson, they didn't just dream that shape up imo, I actually prefer my offsets these days.

My point still stands about gibson not dealing with the original owner, the finish just got worse and the headstock veneer gap was there from day one and they let that go.

ok, so I've had a look, and yes your right they're nothing like Gibson.

It's called a Royal 59, PAF style pickups, maple top "vintage spec burst front", ABR 1 bridge, binding all round, knobs and switches all in the 'only' place you can put them on a single cut.

Yeah, you're right, sorry my bad, it's nothing like a Gibson.

Nothing like a Gibson it stays in tune, anyway must move on I have my own burst to paint.

BTW it's a Royale.

BigPaulie · April 4

Danielsguitars said:

notsopro said:

Danielsguitars said:

notsopro said:

Danielsguitars said:

notsopro said:

Danielsguitars said:

SixStringSage said:

Danielsguitars said:

Having stripped the back of a Murphy my opinion is they couldn't give a shit, it is the worst LP I've refinished too.

If it comes across as though I'm attacking Gibson then you'd be right, considering the costs they better be damn near perfect and at least come set up and stay in tune, play authentic LMAO.

What was wrong with it? I didn't like any of the lighter finishing on the Murphy models I played, particularly as they even come with a little warning in the case that the finish is more brittle and prone to additional wear. Fortunately the VOS were all superb though (this thread had me going back to inspect mine and it's flawless)

You obviously missed all the fun, I posted up a clip taking gaffer tape to the back of the neck because it was falling off long before I got it, I've had to be so careful masking up and even then the fucking finish has peeled off on the logo, this is the lowest tack btw and putting it on my clothes, the front will fall off at some point imo.
Then I found a gap between the headstock veneer and neck and they just left it, you couldn't see any grain whatsoever on the back not even the maple it was that dark, it was a nightmare to get clean, lesson learned double the price next time, I've still got to sort the headstock that wasn't part of the job, to say I'm pissed off is an understatement.

that seems the right tool for the job right... bit of gaffer tape to the back of a guitar neck, have a right chuckle about it stick it on Instagram. perfectly normal behavior from a fellow luthier.

Lol I've said before the chuckle Is disbelief and I really don't care what you think, you're not the one dealing with it, this also helps others who finish seeing what I'm dealing with and they can charge accordingly.

I won't be doing anymore of these unless they're paying double and that's if I fancy doing it.

They did not accept this back from the original customer so they get all the flack they deserve imo.

with the greatest of respect I don't think other Luthiers are watching your Instagram with a view of getting an idea of pricing. I'm sure you don't care what I think, but as discussed in your thread this isn't your forum and you can't silence people who don't agree with you.

With regards to charging double, does this also apply to the Gibson style guitars that are advertised on your website? I do find it a little interesting that someone with your views on Gibson is happy to 'advertise' guitars that look like they're very much inspired by Gibson.. or am I misreading what a 'Royal 59' might be based on?

last point, elstoof has addressed.

If you bothered to look at my single cuts you'll see they're built nothing like a Gibson in every way, it's a single cut carved top, bigsby made a single cut before gibson, they didn't just dream that shape up imo, I actually prefer my offsets these days.

My point still stands about gibson not dealing with the original owner, the finish just got worse and the headstock veneer gap was there from day one and they let that go.

ok, so I've had a look, and yes your right they're nothing like Gibson.

It's called a Royal 59, PAF style pickups, maple top "vintage spec burst front", ABR 1 bridge, binding all round, knobs and switches all in the 'only' place you can put them on a single cut.

Yeah, you're right, sorry my bad, it's nothing like a Gibson.

Nothing like a Gibson it stays in tune, anyway must move on I have my own burst to paint.

BTW it's a Royale.

https://danielsguitars.co.uk/royal-59/

SixStringSage · April 4

Bigsby said:

SixStringSage said:

Bigsby said:

Once again, after their initial offer, the shop were not involved, and that is the point: You can deal with Gibson directly, even though you haven't done so yourself. And beyond that, Gibson had no reason to offer a replacement they didn't have, it would've been silly to do so.

ok so just to summarise then:

- Gibson didn't offer you a replacement and you didn't ask for one
- your experience doesn't validate Linny's version of events

To summarise:

- Gibson didn't have a replacement to offer (which is not the same as not offering one when they have one available). Asking for one would've been pointless. How hard is that for you to grasp?

- My experience validates the claim that customers can deal with Gibson directly and don't have to go through a dealer in every situation, (even though you haven't discovered this for yourself), and thus counters the argument that the guy who made the video couldn't have dealt directly with Gibson.

Still with the attitude?

With respect, it's not me failing to grasp anything. You're missing the point by a country mile that the question at hand is specifically about whether Gibson will send a replacement to a guitar purchased via a dealer. It doesn't matter if Gibson didn't have your particular model in stock, nor that you would have said no to such an offer. Utterly irrelevant.

I'll break it down one final time: it's not uncommon for companies to say "We don't have an exact replacement but we have this one, would you like it?" and Gibson did precisely that with me, they had no 2014 models in my colour left, and offered me a different model (still a Les Paul, just a different year, colour, and a bump from Plus to Premium). I'm not suggesting you should have taken a LP Junior instead of an SG, I asked if Gibson offered a different type of SG from the one you ordered.

So no, despite your protestations, it doesn't validate the claim that you can buy a guitar from a retailer and then bypass the retailer for an exchange from Gibson. You've shown it's possible to talk to Gibson when the dealer is out of options.

I suspect this is now a matter of you "won't" rather than "can't" grasp the difference, so consider me done with this particular tangent. My question was a fair one, and I wasn't the only one asking it. I haven't said it's definitely not possible either, I've said it's counter to what I've heard from 10 years ago and 3 days ago, and am trying to enquire if anyone knows differently. But an answer needs to be actually comparable to the scenario we've been shown, and not that someone has proven it's possible to speak to Gibson.

swiller · April 4

There are plenty of QC gibson youtube vids, including a KHD vid where a pube is under the clearcoat on the body.
I take with a pinch of salt this video as your man only has a couple of vids, a few hundred subscribers, holes in the story and just photo shots of damage. Which raises suspicions as its easy to do it properly on film these days with a second hand £150 iphone.

Casabg · April 4

swiller said:

There are plenty of QC gibson youtube vids, including a KHD vid where a pube is under the clearcoat on the body.
I take with a pinch of salt this video as your man only has a couple of vids, a few hundred subscribers, holes in the story and just photo shots of damage. Which raises suspicions as its easy to do it properly on film these days with a second hand £150 iphone.

if the original YouTuber just wanted to attract hits. I'm sure that there would be a better way to do that. Why would somebody just make it up? Doesn't make sense

elstoof · April 4

The channel has jumped from 300 views per video to 11,000, I don’t think there many ways to get that sort of strike rate unless you have some genuinely good content (which is really difficult).

Personally I’m inclined to think that this whole sorry tale has been exaggerated for clout, I’m sure he did end up with a guitar he thought was great in the shop but was a minger in the cold light of the following morning but the whole “I tried 6 awful guitars and somehow still bought a rubbish one” is a bit unbelievable for someone who apparently knows what they’re looking for

chris78 · April 4

BigPaulie said:

ok, so I've had a look, and yes your right they're nothing like Gibson.

It's called a Royal 59, PAF style pickups, maple top "vintage spec burst front", ABR 1 bridge, binding all round, knobs and switches all in the 'only' place you can put them on a single cut.

Yeah, you're right, sorry my bad, it's nothing like a Gibson.

Nothing like a Gibson it stays in tune, anyway must move on I have my own burst to paint.

BTW it's a Royale.

https://danielsguitars.co.uk/royal-59/

5 grand. Wow. I got offered an Eggle Macon the other day for 3k. I think they’re under 5k new.

GSPBASSES · April 4

BillDL said:

Tannin said:

The point is that Gibson's QC seems to be worse than that of instruments costing one tenth as much. I mean, FFS, anyone here, seeing awful quality like that shown on a $5000 guitar in the video on a £300 Harley Benton would be sending it back without even thinking about it. (Sorry, can't be arsed converting into £ or USD.)

Aaaah, but there have been quite a few inferences in this thread that the video guy used an "abused" or B-Stock guitar, or hacked away at it himself, with the ulterior motive of generating traffic to his video and website. I think it's about time that we called in @FatherDowling or @AgathaRaisin to get to the bottom of that issue.

I wouldn't mind getting to Agatha Raisin bottom.

Come on, admin close this discussion down, how many times have we had this discussion, going right back to the music radar forum. Very boring now.

I did wonder when the Music Radar forum shut down had something to do with the same discussion that's going on now about Gibson QC or lack of it. Considering how much money Gibson most likely used to spend with the magazine, I wonder if they threatened to withdraw their advertising because of us constantly having a go about Gibson poor quality.

Offset · April 4

^^ Yep, going down the u-bend. Old wounds being re-opened. -sigh-

swiller · April 4

Casabg said:

swiller said:

There are plenty of QC gibson youtube vids, including a KHD vid where a pube is under the clearcoat on the body.
I take with a pinch of salt this video as your man only has a couple of vids, a few hundred subscribers, holes in the story and just photo shots of damage. Which raises suspicions as its easy to do it properly on film these days with a second hand £150 iphone.

if the original YouTuber just wanted to attract hits. I'm sure that there would be a better way to do that. Why would somebody just make it up? Doesn't make sense

And those better ways are...?
Why make it up?

He is trying to get a replacement for a guitar he knows he probably cant get legally.
He is being paid to do it by a competitor.
He wants to get a name for himself and hits as you have said. Why do a youtube video if you dont want to get hits?
A couple of stoneheads mucking about with AI in videos having a pop at gibson.
They are a member on here , spoofing it, knowing full well it will go nuts with people bickering about sweet fanny adams.

Maybe he has been sold a chibson and victim of a warehouse/postie side hustle. Either way....
Why doesnt he correct it with another video? A full film close up of that guitar is easily done and further explanations of the holes in his story. Im sure thats incoming as views and comments increase, otherwise its pinch of salt stuff surely. Receipts, correspondence e mails, COA that kind of thing. Like any normal person would do.

Until then, who cares.

SixStringSage · April 4

Casabg said:

swiller said:

There are plenty of QC gibson youtube vids, including a KHD vid where a pube is under the clearcoat on the body.
I take with a pinch of salt this video as your man only has a couple of vids, a few hundred subscribers, holes in the story and just photo shots of damage. Which raises suspicions as its easy to do it properly on film these days with a second hand £150 iphone.

if the original YouTuber just wanted to attract hits. I'm sure that there would be a better way to do that. Why would somebody just make it up? Doesn't make sense

It’s doubtful he “just made it up” but exaggeration is probably likely.

Why? Look at the very start of the video description box on YouTube — links to his leather guitar straps. Gibson is a massive brand in the guitar industry and taking a critical look at big players is a near-guaranteed way to get fast attention, which I dare say is why he’s followed that video up with a critical look at CTS pots. Now he’s got a fairly large pool of people that will see videos in YouTube’s recommendations thanks to their engagement on this video, some of whom may decide to buy his straps or whatever other guitarist-related accessories he releases.

What would your better way of getting hits look like?

Bigsby · April 4

SixStringSage said:

Bigsby said:

SixStringSage said:

Bigsby said:

Once again, after their initial offer, the shop were not involved, and that is the point: You can deal with Gibson directly, even though you haven't done so yourself. And beyond that, Gibson had no reason to offer a replacement they didn't have, it would've been silly to do so.

ok so just to summarise then:

- Gibson didn't offer you a replacement and you didn't ask for one
- your experience doesn't validate Linny's version of events

To summarise:

- Gibson didn't have a replacement to offer (which is not the same as not offering one when they have one available). Asking for one would've been pointless. How hard is that for you to grasp?

- My experience validates the claim that customers can deal with Gibson directly and don't have to go through a dealer in every situation, (even though you haven't discovered this for yourself), and thus counters the argument that the guy who made the video couldn't have dealt directly with Gibson.

Still with the attitude?

With respect, it's not me failing to grasp anything. You're missing the point by a country mile that the question at hand is specifically about whether Gibson will send a replacement to a guitar purchased via a dealer. It doesn't matter if Gibson didn't have your particular model in stock, nor that you would have said no to such an offer. Utterly irrelevant.

I'll break it down one final time: it's not uncommon for companies to say "We don't have an exact replacement but we have this one, would you like it?" and Gibson did precisely that with me, they had no 2014 models in my colour left, and offered me a different model (still a Les Paul, just a different year, colour, and a bump from Plus to Premium). I'm not suggesting you should have taken a LP Junior instead of an SG, I asked if Gibson offered a different type of SG from the one you ordered.

So no, despite your protestations, it doesn't validate the claim that you can buy a guitar from a retailer and then bypass the retailer for an exchange from Gibson. You've shown it's possible to talk to Gibson when the dealer is out of options.

I suspect this is now a matter of you "won't" rather than "can't" grasp the difference, so consider me done with this particular tangent. My question was a fair one, and I wasn't the only one asking it. I haven't said it's definitely not possible either, I've said it's counter to what I've heard from 10 years ago and 3 days ago, and am trying to enquire if anyone knows differently. But an answer needs to be actually comparable to the scenario we've been shown, and not that someone has proven it's possible to speak to Gibson.

As I said at the outset, this was the most expensive SG in the Gibson USA range that year, I'll add that it was the only one with a Diablo carve top - there was no 'bump up' or even an equivalent available... So, again, there was no possibility of a replacement. However, they were happy to deal directly with me, and spend far more money on a luthier than they would've done on shipping a replacement.

bacchanalian · April 4

I thought we had hit peak Fretboard when somebody took the time and trouble to post a picture of, what I assume, is a dentist's chair in the PRS S2 thread.
But this thread has some great work and is shaping up to be a bit of a classic.

If my offspring ask me if they should take up guitar I will show them this thread.

Casabg · April 4

bacchanalian said:

I thought we had hit peak Fretboard when somebody took the time and trouble to post a picture of, what I assume, is a dentist's chair in the PRS S2 thread.
But this thread has some great work and is shaping up to be a bit of a classic.

If my offspring ask me if they should take up guitar I will show them this thread.

I'm honoured

Roland · April 4

GSPBASSES said:

Come on, admin close this discussion down, ….

With pleasure. What we’ve learned from this thread:
1. Gibson have a problem with quality and consistency.
2. We can’t always believe what people say in YouTube videos.
3. You don’t win arguments on the internet.
I don’t think any of those come as a surprise.

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