Guitar brands that...

Rocker

Epiphone, especially Les Paul’s, these guitars are seldom considered ‘proper guitars’ in their own right, trivial issues like the headstock shape (when compared to Gibson) are ‘reasons’ to avoid them if you are in the market for a guitar. 

Nerine

LionAquaLooper said:

Why do any of the brands in this thread deserve more recognition than they have? If they were doing more things right, they’d have more recognition with higher sales, no?? 

If more of these companies got their basic branding and marketing (sometimes even their name) right, (see Blackstar and Orange for example) they’d likely see higher market share. 

Not really an automatic assumption that they haven't done their basic branding and marketing "right" and it's all their fault. For all we know they HAVE done everything in that dept right. But let's be realistic. When you're up against behemoths like Fender Gibson even Ibanez, your ceiling will always be limited no matter what...unless one of them collapses in a dramatic fashion and leaves a gaping hole behind. 

If they’d have done everything right, they’d be more popular. 

Plenty of small startup companies get it right. They go on to be large companies. 

The ones that don’t don’t. 

Some brands just don’t have an eye for desirability or “cool” and come across as naff even though the product might be ok. 

That doesn’t equal deserving of success. 

It means they made mistakes with their basic brand identity in a lot of cases. 

Let’s look at Ivison. Small builder looking like going from strength to strength. Good branding, good company logo, cool looking guitars, well made, etc. 
It’s not fluke or luck that that business is growing and others are failing. 

Going back to Fret King. They could make the best guitars in the world. I wouldn’t buy one because their brand, logo, aesthetic etc is utterly ghastly. Quilter another example. 

Perhaps that’s a shallow way of looking at it, but I’m generally a reasonable/measured person and even I struggle with it, so there’s small wonder other consumers that care about such things more than I do, will avoid these products like the plague. 

Chimpankie

Nerine said:

LionAquaLooper said:

Why do any of the brands in this thread deserve more recognition than they have? If they were doing more things right, they’d have more recognition with higher sales, no?? 

If more of these companies got their basic branding and marketing (sometimes even their name) right, (see Blackstar and Orange for example) they’d likely see higher market share. 

Not really an automatic assumption that they haven't done their basic branding and marketing "right" and it's all their fault. For all we know they HAVE done everything in that dept right. But let's be realistic. When you're up against behemoths like Fender Gibson even Ibanez, your ceiling will always be limited no matter what...unless one of them collapses in a dramatic fashion and leaves a gaping hole behind. 

If they’d have done everything right, they’d be more popular. 

I think it’s possible to do everything right and still lose, while you can control what you do you can’t influence overarching market conditions.

Sporky

That feels a bit circular!

There's a degree of historical re-enactment to electric guitar, so the LP, 335, Strat, and Tele have an advantage in that they got in there early.

At that point it becomes very hard to break in; copies and homages are dismissed as "not the real thing", and anything innovative is dismissed as "well, Jim Paige didn't play Hairway to Steven on one".

Slightly exaggerated for comic effect, but tradition is a big factor for a significant number of guitar purchases.

Jetfire

Nerine said:

LionAquaLooper said:

Why do any of the brands in this thread deserve more recognition than they have? If they were doing more things right, they’d have more recognition with higher sales, no?? 

If more of these companies got their basic branding and marketing (sometimes even their name) right, (see Blackstar and Orange for example) they’d likely see higher market share. 

Not really an automatic assumption that they haven't done their basic branding and marketing "right" and it's all their fault. For all we know they HAVE done everything in that dept right. But let's be realistic. When you're up against behemoths like Fender Gibson even Ibanez, your ceiling will always be limited no matter what...unless one of them collapses in a dramatic fashion and leaves a gaping hole behind. 

If they’d have done everything right, they’d be more popular. 

Firm disagree, Marketing budgets, hype, allegations of "mojo", guitar player snobbery along with other things such as availability of stock. 

McDonalds is massively popular, just remember that. 

maltingsaudio

Going to add two Frenchies to the conversation Lag and Vigier. 

In Vigiers case I think we all know how good they are,  but they are a bit of a rareity and expensive which means they are often overlooked.

Lag made and make some stunning guitars 

OilCityPickups

57Deluxe said:

in more contemporary times - Hofner. When was 15, pouring over the Bells Music Catalogue, the Galaxie with its multiple switches/pups really intrigued me.

You wouldn't have liked the look so much when you realised years later all six pickup coils needed rewound due to corrosive solder killing the pickups if you so much as looked at them funny! :-) 

Pete.R

Pete.R said:

For me it is the FGN brand, FujiGens own brand.

Everybody knows or have heard about many of the great guitars they made for Ibanez, Fender or Gibson, 

just to name a few of them.

Not much know about their own brand, established around 2009

High Quality guitars at an affordable price. Quality over Quantity is what they are doing.

They have traditinal models and their own, improved versions of those trad. models.

Look up some of Andertons videos for more info

I am biased, I've got 12 of them in my crew

edit:

Maybe they're doing it 'wrong' compared to the big brands who spend a sh!tload of money for marketing and the 'stars' who endorse their guitars.

In the end most of them live from the reputation earned many decades ago - and less from the actual product.

FGN actually makes ~ 3000 guitars a month, that's less than some 'mass-produced' Custom-Shop do....

and basicly their production is more 'custom-shop' than many others.

If a company spends lots of money for marketing - you will pay it

if a company dosen't do this - you get a great guitar for less...

So maybe they're doing it right ?

Nerine

Chimpankie said:

Nerine said:

LionAquaLooper said:

Why do any of the brands in this thread deserve more recognition than they have? If they were doing more things right, they’d have more recognition with higher sales, no?? 

If more of these companies got their basic branding and marketing (sometimes even their name) right, (see Blackstar and Orange for example) they’d likely see higher market share. 

Not really an automatic assumption that they haven't done their basic branding and marketing "right" and it's all their fault. For all we know they HAVE done everything in that dept right. But let's be realistic. When you're up against behemoths like Fender Gibson even Ibanez, your ceiling will always be limited no matter what...unless one of them collapses in a dramatic fashion and leaves a gaping hole behind. 

If they’d have done everything right, they’d be more popular. 

I think it’s possible to do everything right and still lose, while you can control what you do you can’t influence overarching market conditions.

If you do everything right, you can navigate market conditions because it will have been planned for. 

It seems like the general vibe in this thread is successful businesses and brands succeed due to fluke or being in the right place at the right time, and unsuccessful businesses were just simply unlucky. 

I totally disagree with that. 

LionAquaLooper

Nerine said:

Chimpankie said:

Nerine said:

LionAquaLooper said:

Why do any of the brands in this thread deserve more recognition than they have? If they were doing more things right, they’d have more recognition with higher sales, no?? 

If more of these companies got their basic branding and marketing (sometimes even their name) right, (see Blackstar and Orange for example) they’d likely see higher market share. 

Not really an automatic assumption that they haven't done their basic branding and marketing "right" and it's all their fault. For all we know they HAVE done everything in that dept right. But let's be realistic. When you're up against behemoths like Fender Gibson even Ibanez, your ceiling will always be limited no matter what...unless one of them collapses in a dramatic fashion and leaves a gaping hole behind. 

If they’d have done everything right, they’d be more popular. 

I think it’s possible to do everything right and still lose, while you can control what you do you can’t influence overarching market conditions.

If you do everything right, you can navigate market conditions because it will have been planned for. 

It seems like the general vibe in this thread is successful businesses and brands succeed due to fluke or being in the right place at the right time, and unsuccessful businesses were just simply unlucky. 

I totally disagree with that. 

Ok but what do you mean exactly by "doing everything right" though? Its a very broad phrase. Can you give some examples of how a middling company can do things better so they can navigate current market conditions and elevate their brand to the next level? 

Nerine

LionAquaLooper said:

Nerine said:

Chimpankie said:

Nerine said:

LionAquaLooper said:

Why do any of the brands in this thread deserve more recognition than they have? If they were doing more things right, they’d have more recognition with higher sales, no?? 

If more of these companies got their basic branding and marketing (sometimes even their name) right, (see Blackstar and Orange for example) they’d likely see higher market share. 

Not really an automatic assumption that they haven't done their basic branding and marketing "right" and it's all their fault. For all we know they HAVE done everything in that dept right. But let's be realistic. When you're up against behemoths like Fender Gibson even Ibanez, your ceiling will always be limited no matter what...unless one of them collapses in a dramatic fashion and leaves a gaping hole behind. 

If they’d have done everything right, they’d be more popular. 

I think it’s possible to do everything right and still lose, while you can control what you do you can’t influence overarching market conditions.

If you do everything right, you can navigate market conditions because it will have been planned for. 

It seems like the general vibe in this thread is successful businesses and brands succeed due to fluke or being in the right place at the right time, and unsuccessful businesses were just simply unlucky. 

I totally disagree with that. 

Ok but what do you mean exactly by "doing everything right" though? It’s a very broad phrase. Can you give some examples of how a middling company can do things better so they can navigate current market conditions and elevate their brand to the next level? 

I think you have to give an example of a middling brand. 

And I think you’re straw-manning me here slightly, too. 

Jetfire

LionAquaLooper said:

Nerine said:

Chimpankie said:

Nerine said:

LionAquaLooper said:

Why do any of the brands in this thread deserve more recognition than they have? If they were doing more things right, they’d have more recognition with higher sales, no?? 

If more of these companies got their basic branding and marketing (sometimes even their name) right, (see Blackstar and Orange for example) they’d likely see higher market share. 

Not really an automatic assumption that they haven't done their basic branding and marketing "right" and it's all their fault. For all we know they HAVE done everything in that dept right. But let's be realistic. When you're up against behemoths like Fender Gibson even Ibanez, your ceiling will always be limited no matter what...unless one of them collapses in a dramatic fashion and leaves a gaping hole behind. 

If they’d have done everything right, they’d be more popular. 

I think it’s possible to do everything right and still lose, while you can control what you do you can’t influence overarching market conditions.

If you do everything right, you can navigate market conditions because it will have been planned for. 

It seems like the general vibe in this thread is successful businesses and brands succeed due to fluke or being in the right place at the right time, and unsuccessful businesses were just simply unlucky. 

I totally disagree with that. 

Ok but what do you mean exactly by "doing everything right" though? Its a very broad phrase. Can you give some examples of how a middling company can do things better so they can navigate current market conditions and elevate their brand to the next level? 

Dont forget the back handers given to guitar mags all over the board to promote "good" gear. 

maltingsaudio

I think it’s the old question of how do you make a million in the music business…. Start with two!
The responses by @LionAquaLooper , @Nerine , and @Chimpankie ( didn’t want to use the quote button and get involved in their particular discussion) led me to think of what brands have really broken through in my lifetime to become brands the general public might have heard of apart from Fender and Gibson and Martin. Brands your auntie may have heard of, and actually couldn’t think of any . Widen that to guitar players not enthusiasts and you might add PRS and Ibanez to the list.

Chimpankie

maltingsaudio said:

I think it’s the old question of how do you make a million in the music business…. Start with two!
The responses by @LionAquaLooper , @Nerine , and @Chimpankie ( didn’t want to use the quote button and get involved in their particular discussion) led me to think of what brands have really broken through in my lifetime to become brands the general public might have heard of apart from Fender and Gibson and Martin. Brands your auntie may have heard of, and actually couldn’t think of any . Widen that to guitar players not enthusiasts and you might add PRS and Ibanez to the list.

Honestly of all those my auntie would probably only be able to name Fender in the first place! 

I’d say PRS are closing the gap these days but still don’t have the same level of brand awareness as F and G.

Whitecat

Chimpankie said:

What I don’t get about G&L is there seemed to be a huge push on them 5 or so years ago with promos on Andertons, lots of stock in places like PMT etc Now they seem to have dropped off the radar again? There was a transparent frost blue semi hollow ASAT on Anderton’s that I coveted for a long time. 

Yeah this fascinates me. Shows the dangers for brands of doing deals with the devil - G&L had to axe all of their other small independent dealers to get agreement - it was a three-way coalition between Andertons, PMT and Guitarguitar. PMT dropped out of it fairly quietly a couple years in, and Guitarguitar and Andertons seem to have really scaled back their ordering. Obviously they weren’t selling all that well - that will be the motivation behind this whole thing fizzling out. A massive price rise last year certainly didn’t help. 

BillDL

G&L's "customer service" is non-existent and relies on a 3rd-party enthusiast website for support information.  OK, so I think there is somebody from G&L that pops into that forum to answer some queries, or perhaps some members contact him, but otherwise it's a shite service.  Perhaps THAT has something to do with G&L having become less flavour of the month.

hollywoodrox

It is go Dan 

OilCityPickups

hollywoodrox said:

It is go Dan 

'Go Dan go Dan go Dan go Dan - go go go!'  

LionAquaLooper

OilCityPickups said:

hollywoodrox said:

It is go Dan 

'Go Dan go Dan go Dan go Dan - go go go!'  

LionAquaLooper