Happy St Georges Day

robgilmo

breakstuff said:

Just seen this vid on YouTube. Some of the comments are thoroughly depressing and utterly predictable.

Jesus, WTF is wrong with these people?

Timcito

I've lived most of my life overseas - I left the UK at the age of 22 - and so in my dealings with the innumerable hoards of foreigners beyond our shores (joke, people, joke!  ) I've been asked countless times where I'm from. I have to say I feel a small glow of pride when I say I'm English, and I think that's partly because of the reaction it gets. People like the English and Englishness. Yes, they do. They like the way we speak (Geoffrey Boycott notwithstanding!), they like the humour, they like the look and the feel of the country (if they've been there), they like the Beatles and all the Shakespeare stuff, and the history, oh yes, the history and the pageantry of the best-known royal family in the world.

Well, there's other stuff, too, but suffice to say the reactions are usually positive, and that kind of rubs off on you over the years. I know it's all an accident of birth, blah, blah, but nonetheless, when you spend time overseas, people do see you in some degree as a piece of England, and I have to say I'm quite happy in my piecehood!  

Bidley

I imagine most Western countries have this problem.

I'm pretty sure pointing out the shit things England/English people/English things have done and all the racist nonsense every time someone merely suggests a light-hearted celebration is a surefire way to perpetuate the misappriopriation of St Georges day and the flag.

Oh, and St George was a member of the Praetorian guard in Byzantium, so of Greek ethnicity. The Turks didn't conquer that region until 1300+ years after St George died. He was made patron saint of England by Anglo-Norman Edward III, replacing St Edmund who was a viking-fighting badass (perhaps to deter the peasantry from venerating a famous defender against invasion).

By all accounts, St Edmund loved dragons:

thecolourbox

Timcito said:

I've lived most of my life overseas - I left the UK at the age of 22 - and so in my dealings with the innumerable hoards of foreigners beyond our shores (joke, people, joke!  ) I've been asked countless times where I'm from. I have to say I feel a small glow of pride when I say I'm English, and I think that's partly because of the reaction it gets. People like the English and Englishness. Yes, they do. They like the way we speak (Geoffrey Boycott notwithstanding!), they like the humour, they like the look and the feel of the country (if they've been there), they like the Beatles and all the Shakespeare stuff, and the history, oh yes, the history and the pageantry of the best-known royal family in the world.

Well, there's other stuff, too, but suffice to say the reactions are usually positive, and that kind of rubs off on you over the years. I know it's all an accident of birth, blah, blah, but nonetheless, when you spend time overseas, people do see you in some degree as a piece of England, and I have to say I'm quite happy in my piecehood!  

I think it depends where you are or to whom you are talking. I spent a good amount of time living in Austria and generally did my best to hide the fact I was English - most who didn't know assumed me to be Scandinavian because my accent speaking German was better than an average English person but not quite convincing. 

I was around students of a lot of different nationalities - I'd say the Americans, Mexicans, and Guatemalans all liked English people purely for them being English. The Chinese and Japanese people loved anything English culture but were quite guarded towards actually English people. "Western European" people like French, Swiss, German, Italian were largely indignant towards us. Likewise the Russians. "Eastern" Europeans were pretty indifferent. Northern Europeans, which mostly made up my friendship circle, were not fussed either way but did enjoy poking fun at British people in general but then, on the whole as a population, there are a lot of weird things we do so I thought that was fair.

I found the Austrians themselves to take the approach of hating all foreigners equally

TeleMaster

robgilmo said:

breakstuff said:

Just seen this vid on YouTube. Some of the comments are thoroughly depressing and utterly predictable.

Jesus, WTF is wrong with these people?

They're racists and this is where the reputation comes from and why people don't want anything to do with the flag or any national days and so on. 

Sporky

Maybe it's time for a new, jollier flag. The racists can keep that boring one.

 

swiller

Looks a bit (uni) corny to me ^^

maybe Jimmy page should be the patron saint of england

munckee

St ephen Fry.  

Petepassion

 And maybe this sense of patriotism is tapping into that sense of belonging the majority of us crave? Long eroded since the birth of the city, a place where you become a number, easily replaced, of little worth due the the vast numbers to choose from. Therefore we seek that sense of belonging wherever we can find it, be it music, motorcycles, politics, art, rebellion, or even patriotism.
   Be very aware the dangers of such powerful levers, just as dangerous a lever as religion.

swiller

Petepassion said:

 And maybe this sense of patriotism is tapping into that sense of belonging the majority of us crave? Long eroded since the birth of the city, a place where you become a number, easily replaced, of little worth due the the vast numbers to choose from. Therefore we seek that sense of belonging wherever we can find it, be it music, motorcycles, politics, art, rebellion, or even patriotism.
   Be very aware the dangers of such powerful levers, just as dangerous a lever as religion.

very good point. In wales st davids day is quite strong, with almost everyone wearing daffodils, celebrations include poetry with dylan thomas often recited, male voice choirs, traditional welsh foods offered in office and at home.  Similar to st patricks and st andrews thinking about it. Maybe the celts have it right.

there is certainly no anti avocado / vegan exclusions nor people who are anti genocide and read certain newspapers.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1782659180043571205

dano

fretmeister said:

There is of course a very real problem with the image though. 

This is a real tweet by Paul Golding of Britain First, and it does nothing but open up anyone waving or wearing the English Flag outside of a sporting event to absolute ridicule:




It's this sort of crap that ruins it for anyone who wants to use it in an appropriate way. Flags are an indication of togetherness / loyalty etc etc and when absolute melts like Golding do this sort of thing it lumps together all people flying it and causes suspicion as there is no way of telling which type of flag waver a person is.

That flag has a serious image problem and I can't see that being fixed any time soon.

Nice to see a vaguely middle Eastern looking gentleman walking down a London street and being applauded by the locals 

NothingOnTheTele

swiller said:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1782659180043571205

'Advacado'. 30p Lee never disappoints.

S56035

How can you be proud of being part of something you had no say in? I don't get it whether it's the country you were born in of the race you are. You had zero input so how can you be proud of it?

thecolourbox

dano said:

fretmeister said:

There is of course a very real problem with the image though. 

This is a real tweet by Paul Golding of Britain First, and it does nothing but open up anyone waving or wearing the English Flag outside of a sporting event to absolute ridicule:




It's this sort of crap that ruins it for anyone who wants to use it in an appropriate way. Flags are an indication of togetherness / loyalty etc etc and when absolute melts like Golding do this sort of thing it lumps together all people flying it and causes suspicion as there is no way of telling which type of flag waver a person is.

That flag has a serious image problem and I can't see that being fixed any time soon.

Nice to see a vaguely middle Eastern looking gentleman walking down a London street and being applauded by the locals 

 I feel like the flag's hanging the wrong side of the (very wonky) pole as well, but I suppose it's right if you're behind them. What are those 4 winged seagull type creatures? And the drone carrying a draped white tablecloth over  the roof of Westminster Palace?

topdog91

That tweet was painful, spelling and lack of hyphenation aside. It's like playing populist bingo, if you are one of them you automatically believe X Y and Z. It's a shame that these pondlife are giving small "c" conservatism such a bad name (in many countries) because it would be nice to have genuine alternatives when going to the ballot box.

Timcito

S56035 said:

How can you be proud of being part of something you had no say in? I don't get it whether it's the country you were born in of the race you are. You had zero input so how can you be proud of it?

Family ties, I guess. I was proud of my Dad's cricket accomplishments, but I had no hand in any of them. But I was his son, so I felt a connection and would occasionally talk about them with other cricketers. A country can be like a bigger family; you may have no direct hand in its achievements, but you may feel umbilically connected, made of the same stuff.

Philly_Q

breakstuff

Hurling_Fruitmig

TeleMaster said:

robgilmo said:

breakstuff said:

Just seen this vid on YouTube. Some of the comments are thoroughly depressing and utterly predictable.

Jesus, WTF is wrong with these people?

They're racists and this is where the reputation comes from and why people don't want anything to do with the flag or any national days and so on. 

I haven't watched the video but presumably they are protesting against being 'banned' from showing a cross of St George flag? The fact that they clearly haven't always seems to pass them by.

Offset

Some good news for once:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-68899248