Info about Lupe hand built amps

Lebarque

Alex2678 said:

In his defence he avoided calling me a twat with a clever deployment of the number 4

TW4T is a relative of R2D2 I think.

digitalscream

LilBa2tard said:

 No one asked me about warrantee , but if there was a problem, I'm happy to put things right and even service it in the future but this wasn't asked ..   in fairness with a little care these amps should last for many many years.. 
 

For what it's worth, there's a massive difference between this (which is effectively the "trust me bro" I was talking about) and a legally-enforced warranty that protects the customer's rights and covers repairs, replacements and refunds. That's 30% of the value of a newly-purchased amp right there, and a huge part of the reason that used gear is so much cheaper than new.

By contrast, your eBay auctions state "no returns accepted".

EDIT: I should mention...this is not a criticism of your intent at all, just an explanation of what I mean by the value proposition being very different, and why I don't think your earlier price comparison is entirely valid.

Dodge

Roland said:

@Dodge It’s time to put your pitchfork back in the cupboard.

No pitchfork being wielded here, it was genuine advice.  If someone researches Lupe Amps and this is the first hit, it's not a great advert.

LilBa2tard

Dodge said:

LilBa2tard said:

Alex2678 said:

I’m saying it’s not all about the cost of the parts - expensive parts put together badly are worth less than the sum of the parts. In order to be equal in value to the sum of the parts, they need to be put together well. In order to be worth more than the sum of the parts, they need to be put together really well. 

Whether or not yours are good or not is up to prospective buyers I suppose, but the cost of the parts isn’t the only thing that determines the value of a completed build.

 

Come and play one, and make a proper judgement (for yourself) , rather than just acting like a tw4t and making stupid comments .. 

You're really doing yourself no favours at all here mate.  It's not a stupid comment at all, it's a very valid point.

You're an unknown, you're calling members of a fairly popular guitar forum twats, criticising Rift (who aren't an unknown) on a platform that is crawled by Google.  Search "Lupe amps" on Google, this isthe top result.

 It is really .. he is make judgment on how well a amp is put together ( in a round about way ) without even seeing one , playing one , all from a pic or two  ..   Does he build amps ? , does he know what his looking at or just jumping on the witch hunt ..  

and as for yourself, what are you doing ? do you want to discuss amps or just playing keyboard warrior ?? 

LilBa2tard

digitalscream said:

LilBa2tard said:

 No one asked me about warrantee , but if there was a problem, I'm happy to put things right and even service it in the future but this wasn't asked ..   in fairness with a little care these amps should last for many many years.. 
 

For what it's worth, there's a massive difference between this (which is effectively the "trust me bro" I was talking about) and a legally-enforced warranty that protects the customer's rights and covers repairs, replacements and refunds. That's 30% of the value of a newly-purchased amp right there, and a huge part of the reason that used gear is so much cheaper than new.

By contrast, your eBay auctions state "no returns accepted".

EDIT: I should mention...this is not a criticism of your intent at all, just an explanation of what I mean by the value proposition being very different, and why I don't think your earlier price comparison is entirely valid.

I get what your saying ..  Sorta ..    Go and try and buy a used Fender tweed Princeton from the 50's , or a deluxe .. then we can talk about prices and how used gear is so much cheaper ..   ?  

The price for my amp , reflects on the parts/ materials used and the amp its self,  no one would expect someone to build an amp for one price and then sell it for half the cost , regardless of warrantee ..  and its not like you can pop into Anderson's or Gak and buy an off the shelf Tweed Princeton ..  

If someone wants off the shelf , then that's great and yes in general does drop in value in the second hand market..   but what about the guy who wants what other people don't have to offer, what about the guy who wants a 50's Tweed Princeton or a custom hand wired deluxe made as if it just roll out of the fender factory bk in the 50's ..    

each to their own, fender tweeds are not everyones thing, you can't buy what I make "off the shelf"  so its always going to be a custom build, and is always going to reflect in the price ...     

LilBa2tard

Dodge said:

Roland said:

@Dodge It’s time to put your pitchfork back in the cupboard.

No pitchfork being wielded here, it was genuine advice.  If someone researches Lupe Amps and this is the first hit, it's not a great advert.

to put the recored straight again..  its not / im not called Lupe amps ...  Lupe is the name of a amp I build , which is in essence a Fender Tweed Princeton, a recreation of the 50's amp, which is no longer sold ..   and if you dont understand the name then look it up ..   

I don't build amps under any name, I'm not a company or a business , I make one off custom builds based of fenders 50's tweeds .. tbh I'm not worried, I don't think its negative advertising at all, on the contrary I've had two phone calls about custom builds off the back of this thread already ..       

Alex2678

LilBa2tard said:

 It is really .. he is make judgment on how well a amp is put together ( in a round about way ) without even seeing one , playing one , all from a pic or two  ..   Does he build amps ? , does he know what his looking at or just jumping on the witch hunt ..  

and as for yourself, what are you doing ? do you want to discuss amps or just playing keyboard warrior ?? 

I have built a champ-style amp and did an alright job, worked first time. I sold it for less than it cost me to make when I moved it on though, because I’m not a pro.

Those photos are all people really have to go on when you’re selling via eBay with no returns and none of the protections that come with buying from a proper business.
I’m saying it doesn’t look as neat and tidy as others in the price bracket. Those photos are nice and clear, I don’t see how seeing it in person would change anyone’s mind. 

LilBa2tard

Alex2678 said:

LilBa2tard said:

 It is really .. he is make judgment on how well a amp is put together ( in a round about way ) without even seeing one , playing one , all from a pic or two  ..   Does he build amps ? , does he know what his looking at or just jumping on the witch hunt ..  

and as for yourself, what are you doing ? do you want to discuss amps or just playing keyboard warrior ?? 

I have built a champ-style amp and did an alright job, worked first time. I sold it for less than it cost me to make when I moved it on though, because I’m not a pro.

Those photos are all people really have to go on when you’re selling via eBay with no returns and none of the protections that come with buying from a proper business.

so when you sold it on , did you adhere to regulations for selling and manufacture of an electrical appliance in the uk ??  

your wrong again, anyone who wants a custom built amp , are more than Wellcome to give me a call, pop round my house and have a play with a few, Im happy to open one up and show them over the amp, nothing is forced ..   If they wanted re-stuffed Astron's caps and a perspex rear panel im more than happy to do that too ..  

Im really struggling now to understand where your coming from with your posts..   

digitalscream

LilBa2tard said:

digitalscream said:

LilBa2tard said:

 No one asked me about warrantee , but if there was a problem, I'm happy to put things right and even service it in the future but this wasn't asked ..   in fairness with a little care these amps should last for many many years.. 
 

For what it's worth, there's a massive difference between this (which is effectively the "trust me bro" I was talking about) and a legally-enforced warranty that protects the customer's rights and covers repairs, replacements and refunds. That's 30% of the value of a newly-purchased amp right there, and a huge part of the reason that used gear is so much cheaper than new.

By contrast, your eBay auctions state "no returns accepted".

EDIT: I should mention...this is not a criticism of your intent at all, just an explanation of what I mean by the value proposition being very different, and why I don't think your earlier price comparison is entirely valid.

I get what your saying ..  Sorta ..    Go and try and buy a used Fender tweed Princeton from the 50's , or a deluxe .. then we can talk about prices and how used gear is so much cheaper ..   ?  

The price for my amp , reflects on the parts/ materials used and the amp its self,  no one would expect someone to build an amp for one price and then sell it for half the cost , regardless of warrantee ..  and its not like you can pop into Anderson's or Gak and buy an off the shelf Tweed Princeton ..  

If someone wants off the shelf , then that's great and yes in general does drop in value in the second hand market..   but what about the guy who wants what other people don't have to offer, what about the guy who wants a 50's Tweed Princeton or a custom hand wired deluxe made as if it just roll out of the fender factory bk in the 50's ..    

each to their own, fender tweeds are not everyones thing, you can't buy what I make "off the shelf"  so its always going to be a custom build, and is always going to reflect in the price ...     

I think you're missing the point - it's absolutely nothing to do with quality or the components inside, or the availability of alternate products. With the best will in the world, your amp is not comparable - value-wise - to a 50s Princeton. Buying an amp from the 50s, there's no expectation of a warranty - although, if bought from a business, the consumer would still have legal rights to repair and refund. As you explicitly state in your eBay auctions, you do not accept returns...so, effectively, you're building these amps and selling them as though they're second-hand (in terms of consumer rights).

The customer would still have these legal rights if buying a custom build from an actual business - ask any of the custom guitar or amp builders on here about their legal obligations, because they all have war stories about it, and that is why you're able to undercut them; they have to account for those legal rights in their pricing, and returns are expensive (just ask anyone in retail). As I said, you're sidestepping that by effectively selling your amps with the same consumer rights as if they were bought used, so that's why comparing your pricing to anything sold by a real business is apples-to-oranges...no matter how many times you say "ah, but quality components".

Alex2678

 No but I sold it for £150 and made clear it was an amateur kit build. I regularly build pedals and sell them for less than they cost - they’re effectively second hands kits built by an unknown. 

The thread started with someone asking about them from the point of view of buying one. I don’t think your amps are worth as much as you’re asking. You’ve then been making points to the contrary. I’ve been trying to explain why I still dont think they’re worth as much as you’re asking. 

You also suggested that Chris was motivated to criticise your amps for devious reasons, which I doubt. 

Alex2678

Emprize amps are well known, well regarded, have all the responsibilities and costs of a commercial business to cover, customer service/potential returns to deal with and his 5e3 is £1699. 

euan

I wonder why people as a whole have stopped posting on forums…

I think the heat that was added was duly reduced, and everyone should take a similar approach.  

LilBa2tard

digitalscream said:

LilBa2tard said:

digitalscream said:

LilBa2tard said:

 No one asked me about warrantee , but if there was a problem, I'm happy to put things right and even service it in the future but this wasn't asked ..   in fairness with a little care these amps should last for many many years.. 
 

For what it's worth, there's a massive difference between this (which is effectively the "trust me bro" I was talking about) and a legally-enforced warranty that protects the customer's rights and covers repairs, replacements and refunds. That's 30% of the value of a newly-purchased amp right there, and a huge part of the reason that used gear is so much cheaper than new.

By contrast, your eBay auctions state "no returns accepted".

EDIT: I should mention...this is not a criticism of your intent at all, just an explanation of what I mean by the value proposition being very different, and why I don't think your earlier price comparison is entirely valid.

I get what your saying ..  Sorta ..    Go and try and buy a used Fender tweed Princeton from the 50's , or a deluxe .. then we can talk about prices and how used gear is so much cheaper ..   ?  

The price for my amp , reflects on the parts/ materials used and the amp its self,  no one would expect someone to build an amp for one price and then sell it for half the cost , regardless of warrantee ..  and its not like you can pop into Anderson's or Gak and buy an off the shelf Tweed Princeton ..  

If someone wants off the shelf , then that's great and yes in general does drop in value in the second hand market..   but what about the guy who wants what other people don't have to offer, what about the guy who wants a 50's Tweed Princeton or a custom hand wired deluxe made as if it just roll out of the fender factory bk in the 50's ..    

each to their own, fender tweeds are not everyones thing, you can't buy what I make "off the shelf"  so its always going to be a custom build, and is always going to reflect in the price ...     

I think you're missing the point - it's absolutely nothing to do with quality or the components inside, or the availability of alternate products. With the best will in the world, your amp is not comparable - value-wise - to a 50s Princeton. Buying an amp from the 50s, there's no expectation of a warranty - although, if bought from a business, the consumer would still have legal rights to repair and refund. As you explicitly state in your eBay auctions, you do not accept returns...so, effectively, you're building these amps and selling them as though they're second-hand (in terms of consumer rights).

The customer would still have these legal rights if buying a custom build from an actual business - ask any of the custom guitar or amp builders on here about their legal obligations, because they all have war stories about it, and that is why you're able to undercut them; they have to account for those legal rights in their pricing, and returns are expensive (just ask anyone in retail). As I said, you're sidestepping that by effectively selling your amps with the same consumer rights as if they were bought used, so that's why comparing your pricing to anything sold by a real business is apples-to-oranges...no matter how many times you say "ah, but quality components".

no I have not missed the point at all, I think you have ..   Of course it's comparable to both the original and availability of other comparable amps, im sure you made a comparison with the second hand market, as I pointed out the value of the second hand market varies a lot, I've sold guitars for more than I paid  because the market value changed ....  

    if I build a custom built amp for someone its normally because its not available to buy off the shelf from a shop, if someone has a problem they are more than Wellcome to come back to me , regardless of what it says on eBay or anywhere else...  and if I build an amp for someone they don't want to return it ...   

If I was a company, the business model would be very different, id be aiming to increase profits and reduce costs, and increase output , that's not what I'm about ..   as I mentioned I build one off custom builds which sound and play amazing ..  

instead of trying to make smart comments, about an amp you haven't seen, played, or handled why don't you try one ..  and as for the cost, the price is what it is no one is forced to buy from me..   

Alex2678

 and as for the cost, the price is what it is no one is forced to buy from me..   

I don’t mean this in a shitty way - I absolutely agree that you are free to list them at whatever price you like. 

duotone

Alex2678 said:

Emprize amps are well known, well regarded, have all the responsibilities and costs of a commercial business to cover, customer service/potential returns to deal with and his 5e3 is £1699. 

I just had a look at https://www.emprizeamps.com/order.html and “We are temporarily not taking in any new orders and are taking a well earned break.”

Cheers for the recommendation though, I will make a note of that company.

Dodge

duotone said:

Alex2678 said:

Emprize amps are well known, well regarded, have all the responsibilities and costs of a commercial business to cover, customer service/potential returns to deal with and his 5e3 is £1699. 

I just had a look at https://www.emprizeamps.com/order.html and “We are temporarily not taking in any new orders and are taking a well earned break.”

Cheers for the recommendation though, I will make a note of that company.

Flynn Amps do a 5E3 @ £1695 (and plenty of other amps too).  https://www.flynnamps.com/

LilBa2tard

Alex2678 said:

Emprize amps are well known, well regarded, have all the responsibilities and costs of a commercial business to cover, customer service/potential returns to deal with and his 5e3 is £1699. 

I didn't think they were still building?  I have not seen their work,  they don't show inside the chassis  ..  I use a turret board like the original not P2P ..  ..   

Alex2678 said:

 No but I sold it for £150 and made clear it was an amateur kit build. I regularly build pedals and sell them for less than they cost - they’re effectively second hands kits built by an unknown. 

The thread started with someone asking about them from the point of view of buying one. I don’t think your amps are worth as much as you’re asking. You’ve then been making points to the contrary. I’ve been trying to explain why I still dont think they’re worth as much as you’re asking. 

You also suggested that Chris was motivated to criticise your amps for devious reasons, which I doubt. 

you dont think there worth what im asking ?...   have you played one ??   

please dont act like a fool ...   

Alex2678

I don’t think we’re going to get anywhere with this 

LilBa2tard

Dodge said:

duotone said:

Alex2678 said:

Emprize amps are well known, well regarded, have all the responsibilities and costs of a commercial business to cover, customer service/potential returns to deal with and his 5e3 is £1699. 

I just had a look at https://www.emprizeamps.com/order.html and “We are temporarily not taking in any new orders and are taking a well earned break.”

Cheers for the recommendation though, I will make a note of that company.

Flynn Amps do a 5E3 @ £1695 (and plenty of other amps too).  https://www.flynnamps.com/

   clutching at straws now ..     

Boromedic

Generally your attitude on here would put more people off than you're going to attract. Stop taking it all personally and walk away from the thread, sometimes the best response is saying nothing. If, as posted above, this is the top hit on Google for your amps it's not a great look at the moment.

Seriously, just walk away and post something in the made in the UK section and document an amp build or something. That's the best way to do things going forward and will sell your wares better than this.