No mate, it's not a fender, it's a partscaster

OilCityPickups

chris78 said:

digitalscream said:

guitars4you said:

Agree an element of gray area, but essentially with his product info he is not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes

Not really. Under the law, it's a fake.

It's absolutely not.
He's put a genuine cs neck onto the body of a different maker. Nothing illegal in that and it makes it clear what it is from both the pics and description.
You surely can't be suggesting he removes the logo from the genuine neck?

According to the law that's exactly what should be done. It's no longer a Fender, assembled by Fender in a Fender factory so it shouldn't bear a Fender badge ... simple as that ... it's a fake. 
Remove the logo and it's fine. 
Selling the neck on it's own as a custom shop neck shouldn't cause any legality issues as it's not a complete guitar so not fooling anyone it's a Fender. 

stonevibe

It only becomes illegal when you attach it to a guitar-shaped object and try to sell it.


The whole bolt-on neck Fender logo issue is a massive f**k up; they really should have trademarked/protected the entire guitar's shape when they could have.

damm73

On the listing, he's entered the brand as Fender. I think that's a teeny bit disingenuous. 

stonevibe

damm73 said:

On the listing, he's entered the brand as Fender. I think that's a teeny bit disingenuous. 

eBay doesn't let you enter multiple brands, as far as I am aware, so is it his fault?

guitars4you

OilCityPickups said:

chris78 said:

digitalscream said:

guitars4you said:

Agree an element of gray area, but essentially with his product info he is not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes

Not really. Under the law, it's a fake.

It's absolutely not.
He's put a genuine cs neck onto the body of a different maker. Nothing illegal in that and it makes it clear what it is from both the pics and description.
You surely can't be suggesting he removes the logo from the genuine neck?

According to the law that's exactly what should be done. It's no longer a Fender, assembled by Fender in a Fender factory so it shouldn't bear a Fender badge ... simple as that ... it's a fake. 
Remove the logo and it's fine. 
Selling the neck on its own as a custom shop neck shouldn't cause any legality issues as it's not a complete guitar so not fooling anyone it's a Fender. 

But no sensible person would do that (remove the logo) He is 100% legally within his rights to sell the neck on its own as a CS neck complete with the relevant logo - No issues and no questions - End off

As such it is only a more long winded series of sales to get his £1800 quid by selling it in parts

But in this case I do not see where he has said it is a ‘Fender Guitar’ - Assembled in a Fender Factory by staff employed by Fender - If the ad said ‘Fender Custom Shop Nocaster for sale ‘ then I’d agree with you - But it clearly states Fender Custom Shop neck and not guitar 

OilCityPickups

stonevibe said:

It only becomes illegal when you attach it to a guitar-shaped object and try to sell it.


The whole bolt-on neck Fender logo issue is a massive f**k up; they really should have trademarked the entire guitar's shape when they could have.

It's not rocket science ... Partscasters aren't Fenders, end of story. 

If one ignores everything else, the Fender logo in that script is a trademark - and allowing it to remain on an instrument that is up for sale but is no longer a Fender is trademark infringement. 

Gilly

guitars4you said:

But no sensible person would do that (remove the logo) He is 100% legally within his rights to sell the neck on its own as a CS neck complete with the relevant logo - No issues and no questions - End off

As such it is only a more long winded series of sales to get his £1800 quid by selling it in parts

But in this case I do not see where he has said it is a ‘Fender Guitar’ - Assembled in a Fender Factory by staff employed by Fender - If the ad said ‘Fender Custom Shop Nocaster for sale ‘ then I’d agree with you - But it clearly states Fender Custom Shop neck and not guitar 

But he’s the not selling the neck on it’s own. He’s selling a complete guitar with a Fender logo on the headstock, which isn’t a Fender guitar. Hence it’s a fake and the sale is illegal. 

stonevibe

Gilly said:

guitars4you said:

But no sensible person would do that (remove the logo) He is 100% legally within his rights to sell the neck on its own as a CS neck complete with the relevant logo - No issues and no questions - End off

As such it is only a more long winded series of sales to get his £1800 quid by selling it in parts

But in this case I do not see where he has said it is a ‘Fender Guitar’ - Assembled in a Fender Factory by staff employed by Fender - If the ad said ‘Fender Custom Shop Nocaster for sale ‘ then I’d agree with you - But it clearly states Fender Custom Shop neck and not guitar 

But he’s the not selling the neck on it’s own. He’s selling a complete guitar with a Fender logo on the headstock, which isn’t a Fender guitar. Hence it’s a fake and the sale is illegal. 

So is Clapton's Blackie a fake?

It is not the same Fender guitar that left the factory.

Gilly

Also @guitars4you aren’t you a Fender dealer?  

theatreanchor

Listing seems pretty clear to me. I wouldn’t buy it, but he does say it’s parts quite a bit. And he’s got pictures of em. So - I don’t really think he’s breaking the law. Just sticking bits of guitars together. 

Gilly

stonevibe said:

Gilly said:

guitars4you said:

But no sensible person would do that (remove the logo) He is 100% legally within his rights to sell the neck on its own as a CS neck complete with the relevant logo - No issues and no questions - End off

As such it is only a more long winded series of sales to get his £1800 quid by selling it in parts

But in this case I do not see where he has said it is a ‘Fender Guitar’ - Assembled in a Fender Factory by staff employed by Fender - If the ad said ‘Fender Custom Shop Nocaster for sale ‘ then I’d agree with you - But it clearly states Fender Custom Shop neck and not guitar 

But he’s the not selling the neck on it’s own. He’s selling a complete guitar with a Fender logo on the headstock, which isn’t a Fender guitar. Hence it’s a fake and the sale is illegal. 

So is Clapton's Blackie a fake?

It is not the same Fender guitar that left the factory.

Yes technically.

dazzajl

digitalscream said:

guitars4you said:

Agree an element of gray area, but essentially with his product info he is not pulling the wool over anyone's eyes

Not really. Under the law, it's a fake.

It 100% is, a Fender logo on a product that’s not a Fender is a slam dunk case. 

That’s also a case where the letter of the law is not a great fit to the circumstances and the seller is being completely honest about what’s on offer. However, that doesn’t mean the next person will be though and this could be listed as a CS Fender somewhere next week. 

If this was mine, I’d be more comfortable without fender on the headstock. 

matt_sefton

These discussions go round and round endlessly. It’s not rocket science. It’s no longer a Fender guitar therefore shouldn’t be sold in such a way that could be misleading to a reasonably stupid person.

Anyway, carry on arguing…

digitalscream

stonevibe said:

Gilly said:

guitars4you said:

But no sensible person would do that (remove the logo) He is 100% legally within his rights to sell the neck on its own as a CS neck complete with the relevant logo - No issues and no questions - End off

As such it is only a more long winded series of sales to get his £1800 quid by selling it in parts

But in this case I do not see where he has said it is a ‘Fender Guitar’ - Assembled in a Fender Factory by staff employed by Fender - If the ad said ‘Fender Custom Shop Nocaster for sale ‘ then I’d agree with you - But it clearly states Fender Custom Shop neck and not guitar 

But he’s the not selling the neck on it’s own. He’s selling a complete guitar with a Fender logo on the headstock, which isn’t a Fender guitar. Hence it’s a fake and the sale is illegal. 

So is Clapton's Blackie a fake?

It is not the same Fender guitar that left the factory.

Yes. However, given that it's a uniquely well-known historical instrument (ie it's unique and famous enough that nobody with a passing familiarity could be expected to not know what it is), I think there's some sort of exception for baked into the law for it.

Philly_Q

So the best course of action is to dismantle it and sell as parts, presumably.  End of problem...?

digitalscream

Philly_Q said:

So the best course of action is to dismantle it and sell as parts, presumably.  End of problem...?

Bingo.

OilCityPickups

theatreanchor said:

Listing seems pretty clear to me. I wouldn’t buy it, but he does say it’s parts quite a bit. And he’s got pictures of em. So - I don’t really think he’s breaking the law. Just sticking bits of guitars together. 

Yes he's breaking the law ... it might not be a fair law, but he's breaking it. 

stonevibe said:

Gilly said:

guitars4you said:

But no sensible person would do that (remove the logo) He is 100% legally within his rights to sell the neck on its own as a CS neck complete with the relevant logo - No issues and no questions - End off

As such it is only a more long winded series of sales to get his £1800 quid by selling it in parts

But in this case I do not see where he has said it is a ‘Fender Guitar’ - Assembled in a Fender Factory by staff employed by Fender - If the ad said ‘Fender Custom Shop Nocaster for sale ‘ then I’d agree with you - But it clearly states Fender Custom Shop neck and not guitar 

But he’s the not selling the neck on it’s own. He’s selling a complete guitar with a Fender logo on the headstock, which isn’t a Fender guitar. Hence it’s a fake and the sale is illegal. 

So is Clapton's Blackie a fake?

It is not the same Fender guitar that left the factory.

And yes it is by strict definition of the law. 

Until a law is changed - which I doubt it will be - partscasters without logos are fine - ones with them are fakes and therefore it's illegal to sell them (not illegal to possess them). 

So the moral is split up your partscaster before you sell it ... you'll end up getting more for the parts anyway. 

stonevibe

Technically, could I remove the neck from the Limited Edition Joe Strummer and sell it on another guitar body then, as it does not have a Fender logo?

OilCityPickups

stonevibe said:

Technically, could I remove the neck from the Limited Edition Joe Strummer and sell it on another guitar body then, as it does not have a Fender logo?

But does it say Fender on the back? :-) 

stonevibe

OilCityPickups said:

stonevibe said:

Technically, could I remove the neck from the Limited Edition Joe Strummer and sell it on another guitar body then, as it does not have a Fender logo?

But does it say Fender on the back? :-) 

Doesn't it have to be the logo?

No, it does not

https://www.fendercustomshop.com/guitars/telecaster/limited-edition-masterbuilt-joe-strummer-telecaster/