No mate, it's not a fender, it's a partscaster

NCo

notsopro said:

there is only one way to settle this... yes we are heading to court!

I'll start the 'GoFundMe'. we'll need enough funds to cover cost of a fender neck, a non fender body, some other materials, pickups, strings, etc. Once put together one side purchases said guitar from the other. Then we'll use the rest of the funds to hire top legal teams for either side, upon which time cases will be made for how the wording of the law relates or doesn't relate to said parts caster. Then we'll see what the judge decides. Does sound like a fun day, could be a little on the expensive side to settle a rather moot point.

Or we could accept that the only persons opinion that matters would be a judge if a case was ever to be brought forward, (which is as unlikely as everyone agreeing on here), and all the lawyer, vs personal opinions are just that. Views based upon interpretation. 

Probably the best idea

Jokes aside, this thread is full of opinions of people who spoke with lawyers, pretaining as facts, without a single example of prior court cases on this matter. Both sides make equally good cases, but without actual court rulings this is just a philosophical discussion.

elstoof

Courts don’t decide the law, they make judgements based on it. Parliament makes the law, you don’t need prior rulings to know what is and isn’t legal. There are two separate conversations here - whether selling the guitar is legal, and whether the seller could end up in trouble. 

The law is black and white, it needs to be. The legal aspect of this particular subject has been stated here several times. The grey area is proving liability, which is what courts decide if you are ever caught

prowla

NCo said:

notsopro said:

there is only one way to settle this... yes we are heading to court!

I'll start the 'GoFundMe'. we'll need enough funds to cover cost of a fender neck, a non fender body, some other materials, pickups, strings, etc. Once put together one side purchases said guitar from the other. Then we'll use the rest of the funds to hire top legal teams for either side, upon which time cases will be made for how the wording of the law relates or doesn't relate to said parts caster. Then we'll see what the judge decides. Does sound like a fun day, could be a little on the expensive side to settle a rather moot point.

Or we could accept that the only persons opinion that matters would be a judge if a case was ever to be brought forward, (which is as unlikely as everyone agreeing on here), and all the lawyer, vs personal opinions are just that. Views based upon interpretation. 

Probably the best idea

Jokes aside, this thread is full of opinions of people who spoke with lawyers, pretaining as facts, without a single example of prior court cases on this matter. Both sides make equally good cases, but without actual court rulings this is just a philosophical discussion.

Yep - in the UK it's case law and precedence which decide how the law is applied.

The written laws tend to leave enough gaps to make the court cases worthwhile, as evidenced by the fact that people can read the written laws and draw different conclusions.

I've still not seen a law which says that attaching a non-Fender body to a Fender neck makes it illegal to sell, any more than attaching a non-Omega bracelet to an Omega watch makes it illegal to sell.

prowla

Ironically, I've been pilloried on another site for saying that a Limelight bass was a counterfeit! :-)

Sporky

If I attached a badgers head to a cats body, and tried to sell the result on ebay as a badger, how many laws would I be breaking? 

Supportact

Sporky said:

If I attached a badgers head to a cats body, and tried to sell the result on ebay as a badger, how many laws would I be breaking? 

If I understand correctly if you cut off its name tag and clearly advertised it as a 'cadger' you'd be OK. 

prowla

I think you’re not allowed to sell deadstock on ebay. 

nero1701

prowla said:

I think you’re not allowed to sell deadstock on ebay. 

Might have been really talented and kept it alive....

Kittyfrisk

Sporky said:

If I attached a badgers head to a cats body, and tried to sell the result on ebay as a badger, how many laws would I be breaking? 

The conditions of your bail for a start.

Philly_Q

Sporky said:

If I attached a badgers head to a cats body, and tried to sell the result on ebay as a badger, how many laws would I be breaking? 

The laws of nature and all that's holy...?  I don't know how many that is.

HAL9000

Supportact said:

Sporky said:

If I attached a badgers head to a cats body, and tried to sell the result on ebay as a badger, how many laws would I be breaking? 

If I understand correctly if you cut off its name tag and clearly advertised it as a 'cadger' you'd be OK. 

…but less likely to arouse suspicions if you clearly advertise it as a ‘bat’.

elstoof

That’s why Ozzy bit the head off in the first place

CavemanGrogg

guitars4you said:

Strat54 said:

How about a £28k partscaster......possibly the most expensive MJT ever.

https://reverb.com/item/77563312-1950-fender-broadcaster-blackguard-butterscotch-blonde-w-hsc?utm_source=rev-ios-app&utm_medium=ios-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=77563312

Looked at that listing 2/3 times now - Don't know about you but I can't see any merit at all in spending 2.8K let alone 28K on such a guitar - What am I buying at 28K - Granted I haven't played it, so there may well be some hidden asset there, but what is 'kosher' about it

At least the guitar in question on this thread has some merit to it at £1800 and I know it would sell for more than that in parts

But that Broadcaster at 28K is the TRigger's Broom 

I've been desperate to build myself a partcaster for over 10 years now, and I've priced it up many many times.  Without a finish, so either some form of oil, or just leaving all the wood as bare unfinished, it will cost me easily £2K, probably closer to £3K - and this is not including the cost of the parts that I already have like all of the electronics and pickups.  That doesn't mean to say that I would be willing to pay anything close to that for a partscaster, just that it is not difficult to easily spend over £2k building a parstcaster.

Kittyfrisk

CavemanGrogg said:

guitars4you said:

Strat54 said:

How about a £28k partscaster......possibly the most expensive MJT ever.

https://reverb.com/item/77563312-1950-fender-broadcaster-blackguard-butterscotch-blonde-w-hsc?utm_source=rev-ios-app&utm_medium=ios-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=77563312

Looked at that listing 2/3 times now - Don't know about you but I can't see any merit at all in spending 2.8K let alone 28K on such a guitar - What am I buying at 28K - Granted I haven't played it, so there may well be some hidden asset there, but what is 'kosher' about it

At least the guitar in question on this thread has some merit to it at £1800 and I know it would sell for more than that in parts

But that Broadcaster at 28K is the TRigger's Broom 

I've been desperate to build myself a partcaster for over 10 years now, and I've priced it up many many times.  Without a finish, so either some form of oil, or just leaving all the wood as bare unfinished, it will cost me easily £2K, probably closer to £3K - and this is not including the cost of the parts that I already have like all of the electronics and pickups.  That doesn't mean to say that I would be willing to pay anything close to that for a partscaster, just that it is not difficult to easily spend over £2k building a parstcaster.

Cough, cough  "No guitar with a bolt on neck should cost more than 10p no matter who made it, or where it was made." :-D
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3882203/#Comment_3882203

SlopeSoarer

It is an emotive subject which comes up often, my questions are...

Has this subject, 'specifically' about partcaster guitars, with genuine neck (inc headstock logos) being sold by individuals been tested in UK courts?

Can specific cases be cited?

If not, why might this be?

Strat54

Can we discuss this one too? Yep licenced neck but F decal, listed as a Stratocaster and brand as Fender in info. What I really want to know is why call it Voodoo Turkey? Wtf? 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315383071104?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=x90Qm-UqRQW&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=AW-lATMFS-G&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

prowla

Strat54 said:

Can we discuss this one too? Yep licenced neck but F decal, listed as a Stratocaster and brand as Fender in info. What I really want to know is why call it Voodoo Turkey? Wtf? 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315383071104?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=x90Qm-UqRQW&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=AW-lATMFS-G&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Being a counterfeit, it is quite a different matter to the one which is subject of this thread.

Plus it also looks awful - some might say the name "turkey" is apt!

BillDL

I wish I had known all this legal mumbo jumbo before I sanded the Gibson logo off my headstock and replaced it with a Harley Benton one with the intention of selling it for more money.

Gilly

prowla said:

Strat54 said:

Can we discuss this one too? Yep licenced neck but F decal, listed as a Stratocaster and brand as Fender in info. What I really want to know is why call it Voodoo Turkey? Wtf? 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315383071104?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=x90Qm-UqRQW&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=AW-lATMFS-G&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Being a counterfeit, it is quite a different matter to the one which is subject of this thread.

How is it any different? It’s exactly the same scenario.

guitars4you

Strat54 said:

Can we discuss this one too? Yep licenced neck but F decal, listed as a Stratocaster and brand as Fender in info. What I really want to know is why call it Voodoo Turkey? Wtf? 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315383071104?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=x90Qm-UqRQW&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=AW-lATMFS-G&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I don't have an issue with 'parts a caster' - And as @CavemanGrogg states a couple of postings above, they can set you back well over £2k - But I have an issue when someone is trying to make out their special project is over 3K for a used example

Yes buy the bits - Have some fun - Create your dream and/or individual machine - But don't think you'll recuperate the funds and time you put into it - That Turkey Caster looks so fake with all the spa dupe 'best' ever claims attached to it 

Go back to the original guitar in question and I know I could sell that in parts for more than £1800 - But that Turkey Caster, I'd be surprised if I clawed back 1/2 of what he is asking for it 

In many ways, many of the comments on this posting possibly support by preference anyway - Don't buy a parts a caster with a view to making your own 'masterbuilt' - Buy a genuine used Fender, or Tokay, or Fernandes etc and customise the crap out of it - Could be a Mex, a MIJ, something like an E Johnson, an AVRi etc etc - Use this as a chassis to customise and individualise as required - Years ago I acquired a really good MIJ Strat - Good news was that someone had already spent a few quid on a good re-fret - Over the years I must have spent a few quid on upgrades - Fat Boy vintage scratch plate etc (when they were available and a pity they aren't now) - Even acquired a CS Relic trem block - Amalfitano pick-ups etc - The parts cost more than the guitar by a big margin but it was done over the years so never one big spend day - The sum of the parts wasn't cheap - The end result was excellent - Not saying it was a CS Fender - But a hell of a good kick around to leave by the sofa as a go to guitar - But there was no way the sum of the parts equalled any form of asking price - So in the end when I sold it, I broke it down into parts with regards to the hardware, scratch plate, pick-ups etc - But the heart of the guitars was still a 100% genuine Fender body/neck as supplied by Fender many many years earlier - In short have fun with such projects - But don't ever think you've created a profit or even break even - Carry out such a project to say an EJ Strat or a Baja Tele and when you want to sell it you can still say it is a 100% Fender even if it might be just a body and neck left for sale