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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 6110
    Roy - yes, he's rarely found where there are low scoring rates but given our tendency to pass 100 with at least four wickets down maybe there's something to be said for trying to hit one of the Aussie bowlers of his stride. Plus, of course, until he's played a few tests you can't really judge him.

    Archer - if he wasn't fit enough for a run-out against Ireland then I don't think he's fit enough for a huge game like the first Ashes test of the summer. We might have Anderson who might break down again, Archer who might break down, and Broad who may have one of his NOT-getting-five-wickets-in-a-spell days. Too much of a risk.

    They have to stick with Denly, especially after Root ran him out. Plus, he's willing to play at 3.

    Baristow's batting has been poor, and I can't see him playing all five tests unless he bucks his ideas up. We have Buttler, Foakes and maybe Billings in the queue behind him.
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  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Frets: 9396
    Confirmed squad for first test:

    England squad for first Ashes Test: Joe Root (capt), Moeen Ali, James Anderson, Jofra Archer, Jonny Bairstow (wk), Stuart Broad, Rory Burns, Jos Buttler (wk), Sam Curran, Joe Denly, Jason Roy, Ben Stokes, Olly Stone, Chris Woakes.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 5639
    Why on earth is Moeen in ahead of Leach?  Leach is a far better bowler, and on recent evidence he might well be a better batsman as well.  Moeen is a walking wicket.
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 712
    Did you actually see Leach bowl against Ireland? He sent down three overs of assorted pies and got smacked for 26.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 5639
    Stuckfast said:
    Did you actually see Leach bowl against Ireland? He sent down three overs of assorted pies and got smacked for 26.
    He's a better bowler than Moeen.  HIs track record in the county game over the last few years shows that.

    The series in Sri Lanka also shows that.  Leach was very much treated as the number 1 spinner.  He bowled more overs than Ali in 5 of the 6 innings.

    Leach also has the capability of bowling dry, and keeping an end tight while the quicks rotate.  Ali isn't that kind of bowler.

    One bad spell doesn't suddenly make him a bad bowler.
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 712
    Well I like Leach, don't get me wrong, but (a) Mo has barely played any county cricket over the last few years as he's been centrally contracted, and (b) Leach plays at Taunton where the pitches have been doctored to suit him and Bess.

    It's a shame that Mo has been in poor form recently but I think fundamentally he's a really good bowler and certainly one who turns it more than any other English finger spinner I can think of since Graeme Swann. He has produced match-winning spells in English conditions against world-class batting line-ups.

    Really I think it comes down to the question of whether we want to pick a left-armer who will be more effective against the right handers, or a right-armer who will pose more problems for the left-handers.

    Also, while it's true that one bad spell doesn't make Leach a bad bowler, he came on exactly when England desperately needed someone to 'bowl dry' and get some control back and he completely failed to do so, while Ali bowled quite well at the other end.


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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 6349
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    Reports indicating Root to bat at 3 

    Therefore how will this pan out ?
    Roy to open with Denly or Burns
    Root at 3
    4/5/6 - I assume Stokes, Bairstow and probably Buttler - Bairstow to get the gloves
    7 - Curran
    8 - Ali
    9/10/11 - Broad, Anderson, Archer - If Anderson not fit then Woakes

    Certainly not convinced with Ali in the side, but as the only spinner in the squad then pretty certain he plays

    Assume both Bairstow and Butler in the squad as both will bat - probably Bairstow with the gloves

    Not convinced it is a well balanced side and the batting line up will get pundits talking before a ball is bowled
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 5639
    If Root does bat 3, I think it's likely that Denly will move up to open and Roy will bat at 4.

    It's not a well balanced side.

    The criminal thing is that Foakes isn't in the side - especially when Bairstow has only been averaging 24 in test cricket since Jan 2018.
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  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Frets: 9396
    I'm not convinced on Butler as just batsman, he had a poor World Cup.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 5639
    I'm not convinced on Butler as just batsman, he had a poor World Cup.


    I'm not convinced either, but he's not quite played badly enough to get dropped yet.

    The frustrating thing with both him and Bairstow is that they have the talent, but don't have the technique and/or temperament for test cricket.

    Given the lack of other batting options, I can see why the selectors persist with them, but our batting looks far too dependent on Root and Stokes.

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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 6349
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    The pundits are all saying it is going to be a battle of the bowlers and maybe it is but I don't see their batting line up as 'bad' as ours

    Roy is unknown at this level - I'd like him to just take it on as though it is a one day game - Not much point in trying to be something you aren't - Granted you can fine tune, but not sure you can totally transform - Granted Warner has played well at both one day and test, whereas Finch has struggled at test - So somewhat of a trial with Roy but I'd be prepared to give it a go - Pity we didn't 'bed' him in a bit earlier in the last year or so

    I'm not convinced with Stokes at 4 - Think the selectors see him as a J Kallis and I don't - On a good day he is great but not consistent enough for a #4 - Can apply the consistent level to Bairstow and Buttler 

    I wouldn't, but I can see the selectors dropping Curran for the potential 4 bowling option of Anderson (if fit), Archer, Broad and Woakes - But Curran offers a good balance to the team at 6 or 7

    Just feel the whole set-up is a bit pick n hope - Yet I'm looking forward to a good series

    the Aussies ain't going to win the Rugby WC, so this is their last chance to win anything this year
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 6349
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    Denly apparently at 4

    So Roy, Burns, Root, Denly, Stokes, Bairstow, - looks set now

    so Curran, Ali, Broad, Archer, Anderson for me - If Anderson not fit then Woakes
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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 6110
    I' not in favour of Root batting at three if he's more comfortable and scores more at four.

    On the other hand, the difference between coming in first wicket down and second wicket down is rarely more than a couple of overs these days.
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 6349
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    Anderson in and fit
    Archer out
    Woakes in

    No Curran and I think that is an error - Can't see why Butler and Bairstow - I like JB and think he should have the gloves, but batting at 7 with no gloves and in that case have Curran who can act as an all rounder - Wierd

    Rory Burns, Jason Roy, Joe Root (capt), Joe Denly, Ben Stokes, Jos Buttler (wk), Jonny Bairstow, Moeen Ali, Chris Woakes, Stuart Broad, James Anderson.
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  • crunchmancrunchman Frets: 5639
    Foakes should have the gloves.

    Apart from the errors in naming the squad in the first place, why on earth is Ali down to come in ahead of Woakes in the order?
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 15046
    Stuckfast said:
    Well I like Leach, don't get me wrong, but (a) Mo has barely played any county cricket over the last few years as he's been centrally contracted, and (b) Leach plays at Taunton where the pitches have been doctored to suit him and Bess.

    It's a shame that Mo has been in poor form recently but I think fundamentally he's a really good bowler and certainly one who turns it more than any other English finger spinner I can think of since Graeme Swann. He has produced match-winning spells in English conditions against world-class batting line-ups.

    Really I think it comes down to the question of whether we want to pick a left-armer who will be more effective against the right handers, or a right-armer who will pose more problems for the left-handers.

    Also, while it's true that one bad spell doesn't make Leach a bad bowler, he came on exactly when England desperately needed someone to 'bowl dry' and get some control back and he completely failed to do so, while Ali bowled quite well at the other end.


    1. Taunton and spin

    Of the Somerset bowlers, the seamers have dominated. Lewis Gregory has 4 5-fors, The Overton twins 3 between them, and Jack Brooks has 1.  

    Leach and Bess have 2 five-fors between them this season. Even better, Leach got his at Trent Bridge (6-36). 

    Now why is Taunton given the finger for apparently doctoring pitches to help the slow bowlers yet Essex never gets any raised eyebrows when Simon Harmer takes a shitload of wickets season after season? 

    2.
    Moeen didn't bowl quite well from the other end. He bowled at the other end starting when Leach bowled his third and final over, and proceeded to bowl a three over spell for 14 runs up to tea being taken. It should be considered that Ireland at the point when Moeen came on were 100/2 from 27 overs aka a run rate under 4. So if Moeen is going at 4.66 runs per over in that three over spell when a batting side is looking to not lose wickets prior to tea, it's pretty average bowling. None of the spinners did much over the Test. Leach did not bowl well, something he readily admitted. Nerves got to him. 

    I agree that Moeen is generally a decent bowler. I don't think the schedule this year has helped him at all. He looks well undercooked and there's precious little time to get any bowling rhythm. 




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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 15046
    crunchman said:
    Foakes should have the gloves.

    Apart from the errors in naming the squad in the first place, why on earth is Ali down to come in ahead of Woakes in the order?
    Ali's there to take the shine off the new ball when the top order collapses. 

    *drumroll*
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 712
    I'm not giving Somerset shit for producing spinning tracks (because I think they often make for good games), and you're right, they haven't done so this season because they now have a decent pace attack -- but they certainly did last year and the year before. And yes other teams have produced spinning tracks, good for them, although I'm quite glad it backfired on Notts.
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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 6110
    We're probably going to need a lot of players in this series.

    With the matches being packed in to such a short space of time the likelihood is that bowlers are going to break down. Batsmen will also be found out by the Aussie quicks and be dropped.

    Confidence is going to play a big part, and dropping someone because you think he isn't good enough then recalling him because the player you thought was better turns out not to be won't do much for a player's confidence.
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  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Frets: 9396
    Tomorrow is the day of days...I love The Ashes and I'm all a bit tingly. Will have the iPad on my desk at work with SkyGo app on. I have a Duke & Son Grade A Special County ball and a replica Urn, they will both be displayed in my office for the duration of The Ashes.

    Its here, a home Ashes series! C'mon!
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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 15046
    Stuckfast said:
    I'm not giving Somerset shit for producing spinning tracks (because I think they often make for good games), and you're right, they haven't done so this season because they now have a decent pace attack -- but they certainly did last year and the year before. And yes other teams have produced spinning tracks, good for them, although I'm quite glad it backfired on Notts.
    And because they produced some tracks which helped the slower bowlers, both of their main spinners represented England and did pretty well. I don't think their wickets are doctored. The CC games I've seen online over the last couple of years have been excellent affairs and certainly nowhere near as big a stitch up as Notts signing Ashwin and then turning out shite like that for a wicket. 

    Somerset seem to get shit for whatever wicket they produce, be it the days of the Taunton road or the slow bowling 2nd innings favouring wickets yet truly shithouse tracks like Cardiff and Hampshire get exonerated. Maybe that's the plan. The ECB want wickets so bland that even James Vince can avoid nicking off on it and rack up some runs. 
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  • earwighoneyearwighoney Frets: 2243

    Somerset seem to get shit for whatever wicket they produce, be it the days of the Taunton road or the slow bowling 2nd innings favouring wickets yet truly shithouse tracks like Cardiff and Hampshire get exonerated. 
    Agree. 

    I'm still bitter about the treatment by the ECB of Durham, and the special treatment given to Glamorgan and Hants.  I'm even more bitter how little of a shit cricket pundits and so on seem to ever address the situation (unless I'm missing something)
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  • StuckfastStuckfast Frets: 712
    Yes the ECB double standards re the treatment of Durham on the one hand and Hants and Yorkshire on the other were appalling. Especially as it was at the ECB's instigation that Durham bid too much for the international matches that sent them under. It's also pretty shocking that Hants have packed their side so heavily with Kolpak players at the expense of English talent.

    I'm glad to see that the CC looks like a two-horse race between Somerset and Essex, both smaller clubs with strong grassroots connections and a lot of local players.

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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 6110
    Moving at a slight tangent I'm glad that Jim Maxwell has recovered frm whatever was wrong with him and will be in situ for TMS, He and Jeremy Coney are two of the reasons that TMS is so good.
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 6349
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    Aus win the toss  and choose to bat first  - So we get to bowl first - R5 pundits saying a good option for us - Are we going to get a full days play or is there rain later after tea
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 6349
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    And no M Starc
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  • camfcamf Frets: 876
    Get in!
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  • camfcamf Frets: 876
    Jimmy on the money straight up. He’s a machine.
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  • scrumhalfscrumhalf Frets: 6110
    Numbers!!! On their backs!!!

    What in the name of WG Grace's balls is that about? 
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  • guitars4youguitars4you Frets: 6349
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    scrumhalf said:
    Numbers!!! On their backs!!!

    What in the name of WG Grace's balls is that about? 
    only on the radio at the moment so can't see anything - Does Root have 66 ?
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