The Rugby Union Thread

bertie

and a Chiefs boy is in................... good swag.   Tho it is only the training squad and not the match day 23  - he is a tad green  in defence me thinks

Gassage

Word on street is a starting backline of Farrell, 36, Burrell, with a back three of May, Nowell and Brown. Most worrying is Dan Cole's fitness and the fact that Henry Thomas may start at tighthead, against the best front row in world rugby. He'll spend the next 5 days with his head stuck in his backside.

Barritt may still be favoured to shore up the defence, but he's not a 13 for sure, and Burrell will feature, that is 100%.

France look to be preparing for a power battle as their squad can only mean a 6/2 split on the bench.

I can think of a better place than Paris to field rookies.

I will be doing a piece on the game with Brian Leibenberg the French centre on Tuesday and will post it.

scrumhalf

I'm still unsure about Farrell, would he be where he is today if he wasn't son-of?

I agree with Gassage about blooding youngsters in Paris, it's a bold move but it may be too bold.

tbm

That was coming, but it's still surprising. I know Ben Youngs form hasn't been great but I'd still have him in there. Can't argue with Care's form though. That backhander v Clermont was something only a confidant player would get away with. He's older and wiser too. 

So, lets have some predictions. I think it'll be:
England
Wales
France
Ireland
Italy
Scotland

No grand slam. England to lose to Ireland or France.

CabbageCat

It's France's turn (their annual uber-performance against Wales), Ireland to have a stinker.

France

Wales

England

Scotland

Ireland

Italy

digitalscream

scrumhalf said:

I agree with Gassage about blooding youngsters in Paris, it's a bold move but it may be too bold.

But...it's definitely a step up from keeping Ashton in the squad.

Gassage

tbm said:

That was coming, but it's still surprising. I know Ben Youngs form hasn't been great but I'd still have him in there. Can't argue with Care's form though. That backhander v Clermont was something only a confidant player would get away with. He's older and wiser too. 

So, lets have some predictions. I think it'll be:
England
Wales
France
Ireland
Italy
Scotland

No grand slam. England to lose to Ireland or France.

OK, let's get some evidence into this.

1. Traditionally, France always do well after a Lions' tour.

2. Ireland- huge v AB's.

3. Wales- best of all home nations

4. Scots- tremendous pack- great tighthead if not a sunday, 5 world class lock options, 4 world class BR options, quality 9's, improving 10, best young centre around in Matt Scott- real dark horse bets.

5. Italy- we play them away. Any side that fields Parisse in it can win anything at any time, and any England forward will tell you the hardest pack in the 6N's in terms of physicality is Italy. If their back row is Barbieri, Zanni and Sergio the Great, they'll match anyone at the breakdown.

6. England- a mark of how poor we are is that backline options for France. Couple that in with a chroniclly slow back row, a stuttering line out (hindered by the fact you can only play one of Wood and Croft and both 8's and the 7 are dwarfs in the modern game...) and a back division that gets too narrow in defence and attack, then you'll see we're worried.

I honestly believe we could go to Rome to fight for the Spoon.

Gassage

PS Danny Care fine if Walsh not reffing. He shagged SW's missus in 2008!!!! FACT!

Gassage

Lastly, re Owen....

Ford jnr is the next cab off rank obviously. Now he's been touted as the next great thing for years. But he's paperweight at 86 kgs. Hard mentally though. I worked with him during the U20 RWC.

Owen- even harder mentally, but plays too deep in pocket a lot of the time. England will not change a pivot if they've got 2 rookie centres (36 is still a test rookie; Barritt not many caps either)

However, if you ask, quite genuinely, who is the best 10 in England, who has the greatest vision, the best strategy then you look no further than Charlie Hodgson who is better than anything in the 6N's as 10. Won't happen though.

Gassage

I could have put this in one post but Eng Starting XV according to leaks, is 

15) Mike Brown 14) Jack Nowell 13) Luther Burrell 12) Billy Twelvetrees 11) Jonny May 10) Owen Farrell 9) Danny Care 1) Joe Marler 2) Dylan Hartley 3) Dan Cole 4) Joe Launchbury 5) Courtney Lawes 6) Tom Wood 7) Chris Robshaw 8) Billy Vunipola>

 Tom Youngs, Mako Vunipola, Henry Thomas, Dave Attwood, Ben Morgan, Lee Dickson, Alex Goode, Brad Barritt.

tbm

Gassage said:

tbm said:

So, lets have some predictions. I think it'll be:
England
Wales
France
Ireland
Italy
Scotland

No grand slam. England to lose to Ireland or France.

OK, let's get some evidence into this.

Fair enough!

England - have had France's number away more then anyone else. Lancaster gets players to pull together and they have the best pack in the tournament. If the backs can fire they'll be hard to stop. Have Wales and Ireland at home.
Wales - Scrum laws hitting effeicacy of A Jones and they're relatively weak at half back. Even with JDII out for the start the rest of the backline is lethal. Also, they have Warren Gatland, the best coach in the tournement.
France - Again, half backs the issue. Jettisoning Trinh duc seems madness, less so Freddie, as the ones brought in are hardly inspiring (Remi Tales anyone??). Parra injured for the start. That said, if they get enough ball to Fofana you never know.
Ireland -  Yeah we were great against BNZ, but we were abject the previous week against Austrialia. Thats what we've been like for years, maddeningly inconsistant. Schmidt is an class coach, but unproven at this level. He'll come good, but it'll take time. The fact that it's BODs last international hurrah should be motivation enough to beat Scotland, Italy and one of the big three. 
Italy - They have a few viable out half options now (Allen, yer man from Zebre) so they should be able to get some backs moving. You can't write off any team containg Parisse. Probably only beat the Scot though.
Scotland - Matt Scott looks a find, but the thrid place finish last year in misleading. Italy were hungover and Ireland conspiried to lose in Murrayfield with something like 70% of possession. It spelt the end of ROGs international carrier and it, not the thumping against a fired up Italy, was Irelands nadir in 2013. Landing Vern Cotter is a coup for the SRU, but he's not there yet. 

Gassage

TBM

Won't quote as too big.

I really disagree re the England pack. We're tough, but not dynamic, and we lack nous. In all my playing career we were a conveyer belt of back row talent, yet we've not produced a really exceptional (I mean truly world class) loosie since the greatest of them all, Hilly. Where is the dymanic clearing and the rugby intelligence? It is not there.

Wales- I think all THP's are being hit by the new laws. Typically Bomb was great at hitting into the gap. Now that's been removed, LHP's have come back into the game. Gethin is NOT the best starting LHP- Paul James is.

France- so agree re TD. Madness. However, Pape, Domingo, Swarzewski, Mas are all absolutely world class player, as in Picamoles for 40 mins a game, until he coughs his chain smoking lungs up!! I just cannot see how we can compete upfront with the loosehead options we have, esp if Cole is carrying an injury and we need to bring on Thomas at THP to replace him. Domingo and Mas will have a field day.

Ireland- Schmidt is quality and wants expansive rugby. Darse and Drico are the best centre combo around, and with Sexton, it's a midfield to test the very best.

Italy- I think the only reason we'll beat 'em is we play better at the end of a tournament, generally.

Scotland- I still think they have such quality up front. Potentially with Hamilton/Grey/Denton/Brown one of the best LO's around too.

bertie

Gassage said:

, and we lack nous. 

truest thing spoken yet.   Its patently obvious in pretty much every game of the last 2 years, and more.   If you lack power/speed/presence  - then you need nous, in buckets - we have none

Farrell ?   hot debate - not the best player in any of his positions, its his "usual" cool post kicking is what he's there for - and thats not to be under estimated in a cauldron like SDF.    How he got there, well thats debatable !!!  

IF (and a big if unfortunately)  36 had proven an overnight star and proved a rock at 12(and I agree he wasnt given much of the rub) and there was a "better" kicker - Farrells position would be in doubt Im sure ?  Not sure about his over-use of the howitzer "miss 5" pass either

There's too much instability at 10 12 13.     you need a 10/12 or 12/13 pairing that know each other or at least one "senior" player 

Gassage

36 played v well v NZ.

Nous- OK, I watched the NZ game from the press box, halfway line East stand. Best view in ground. I watched England try and try to break the AB defence, and at the end, as I watched them defend (and attack) I realised that it was only a matter of time.

The reason? The nous of the AB's at the breakdown, and their ability to disrupt through using the fewest numbers possible at the breakdown. Sooner or later I knew there would be a numerical mismatch and we'd be destroyed on the wide outside, and it was Ma'a Nonu that killed us off. However, it was McCaw and Read that did the 78 mins (well 68 mins in Read's case) of absolute destructive graft that led to the try. The Kiwi's were confident to wait until 78 mins to kill us off.

Here is my match report: http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/story/0,25883,9989_9028581,00.html

Gassage

Wales drop Warby!

Interesting stuff. Tips was very ineffective on Lions tour.

Jaden

Im trying to think of other things than the six nations..
England are so "ordinary" right now I just find it depressing.  of course living in Wales I have a few bravado bets on the Eng v Wales game but my heart aint really in it.

Gassage

@Jaden ;

When, precisely, did we reach the dizzy heights of ordinariness?

I'm intrigued!

koneguitarist

I think France are gonna beat England, not by much, but after watching some of the H-cup matches, some of the French players are coming into form. I still take England to win whole championship on points, with Wales France battling for 2nd.

I think Scotland and Ireland's whole season rests on this Saturdays match, would love to see Scots nick this one.

Wales have had some injury problems, and not sure what the thinking is by not having Samson Lee on Bench? But agreed Paul James the better loose head, with Jenkins better as a bench option nowadays, when game breaks up a bit. We have a fairly solid back line, big if not skilful as I would like, but our Achilles heel has always been our front 5 at set piece. 

We have been better in recent years but our line out is adequate at best, even though AWJ is one of the hardest working 2nd rowers out there. With Luke Chateris I am more happy, he is doing the job,Simon Shaw did for England destructing mauls and stuff.

Back row, I think Warburton will play more and more at 6 or 8 switching with Faletau more than Tipuric, Lydiate is great for first 50-60 mins then to have anyone of the others to come on for last 20 or so is a nice luxury to have. 

My one real worry with Wales is lack of serious pace, a real flyer is needed, Cuthbert and North are too big to turn and chase at times, similar in a way to Shane Williams turning Ben Cohen inside out a few times! would love a real fast sharp winger.

As for Ireland's midfield,WERE the best not are the best, too long in the tooth and although good players starting to show their age and lack of pace these days. Bod should have retired after lions tour in my mind.

I hope he doesn't prove me wrong !

Gassage

@koneguitarist

Lack of pace? Jesus, you wanna try a 3/4 line of Ashton, Barritt, Manu and Brown.

You could time them with a calendar.

tbm

BALLS! Fitzgerald, our most dangerous and inform back, is injured. Poor sod, he's had abysmal luck with injuries. With him and Earls injured and Zebo not fully fit our backs are looking pretty toothless.

koneguitarist said

As for Ireland's midfield,WERE the best not are the best, too long in the tooth and although good players starting to show their age and lack of pace these days. Bod should have retired after lions tour in my mind.

I hope he doesn't prove me wrong !

Yup, BOD isn't going to be dropped though even though his form has been patchy. D'arcy is playing really well at the moment and is sporting the best beard ever. Would like to see Luke Marshall get a run at 12 though, think he may start against Scotland.