Rough gigs

thomasross20

Like I said, it might erupt in my face as I've griped to him about the bassist's girlfriend thing from before (she's cool but not a pro sound engineer - glad for her help all the same). If it weren't for that I might have done. 

I think we're all in agreement to stop him if the parts aren't good enough and ask "why" when we've learned our parts. 

He'll get his back up and threaten to quit and at that point we can ask why and it'll all come out. 

I think it's unfair on the one person to do the confronting!

lloyd

Yeah you'll do it your way of course.

Just offering my point of view and how I'd deal with it....I can see your way with you here next year complaining about him being out of time.....

Life's too short, you're a good player who puts a lot of time and effort into the band and deserve IMO other people who are at least willing to put some work into it.

He sounds to me like he knows he's like rocking horse shit and can do what he wants...

Would you be having this conversation if it was a second guitarist that couldn't play and keep time? No chance, he'd be out.

thomasross20

I know, you're right... well awkward as we're all sort of pals. 

Was going to send him an e-mail asking if he's too busy with other bands, noticed he hasn't learned some parts etc but that's not really saying anything, as such. Back to work for now...

Appreciate your posts!! 

lloyd

Didn't realise you were mates, that makes it more tricky....

keithf

I once seen a punter who had been giving the singer a hard time for an hour,

walk out of the venue after the singer told him any more shit and the mic stand is going in one of his holes.

he walked off the curb and promptly got run over by a speeding taxi and killed.

True Story !!

ElectroDan

It comes down again to where you want to be with the band. It would be worth you guys calling a meeting and all laying your cards on the table with regards to what types of gigs you want to be doing, how many you want to be playing, how much you want to charge and how good you want to be.

You may find that your visions for the band are poles apart with another member, which makes it difficult if a compromise can't be found.

Sometimes a natural leader or leaders will do just that and others will be happy to follow their vision. But you can also inspire others that might not seem as commited as you, with your own positivity.

Just for an example you could say at your band meeting.

I've been thinking about the recent situation we've had with the £100 3 hour gig marathon. We know we are worth a LOT more than that and should be playing better gigs for more money. I also think for us to move forward and get where we want to be, we should agree to do whatever we can to be the best band we can be.

I think for us to be better, we can have a look at our set and trim out anything we know isn't quite cutting it, put in some new numbers that will rock live and agree some parts of  our songs need tightening up. We can also look at our presentation and how we can engage with the audience more such as moving away from the music stands that the lyrics are on, so that we perform to the audience instead of that barrier being there.

If we all agree to make a few changes and work that little bit more, we can set a minimum price of £££ for 2 x 45's or push towards playing weddings/getting agent backing etc etc.

Depends how it goes. There is no end of things you can do to improve your lot. No good hiding from the issues or hinting at them though.

ESBlonde

Having read the recent updates the answer seems clear to me even though it's not very palatable.

Drummer is not right for the band, nice guy or not, he's wasting all your time. Your decision is between stay with him and lose gigs and eventually the other band members, or lose him and move on. You might still lose some band members but the longer you leave it the harder it will seem. You should be kind to anyone you fire, they can influence other people toward you down the line. Tell him his friendship is important to you, but....

thomasross20

Thanks, guys. 

I've already put forward a lot of points that we're working on. 

Re the drummer, we all get on but it can't continue into the New Year as is. 

I heard he said to the singer that we are good enough to get away with fewer practices. 

He ignored my texts last night for some reason and then tried to get in touch immediately after the singer asked if he was having a tough time being in 4 bands and that we could maybe put an ad out for a drummer if he wasn't sure. I let it lie (like he did to me) to give him time to think though did say he could email me, which he hasn't. Let's see what happens! 

ESBlonde

He has three other bands. It won't be like you sack him and he never works again.

Time for a little tough love I fear.

Paul_C

ESBlonde said:

He has three other bands. It won't be like you sack him and he never works again.

Time for a little tough love I fear.

plus if you leave it too long he might get dumped from one or more of the other bands first, then it'll be harder to get rid of him

fretmeister

lloyd said:

Didn't realise you were mates, that makes it more tricky....

A mate of mine was in a band with a drummer he went to school with. Best mates for 40 years, but a terrible drummer.

Mate was so desperate to not hurt his feelings he quit the band, then "joined" another band and the other guys slowly moved over to the new band. apart from the drummer.

meltedbuzzbox

I had to "have the chat" with a very good friend of mine that was the drummer in my band at the time...

I haven't heard from him since but the band sounds a lot better. 

It is tricky but when its something I am so passionate about, I cant sit back and take second or even third best

Ché

Not a band gig but I used to run a reggae sound system for a bit. Took it down Chapeltown for a friends event he was putting on. Weather was great and everyone was outside with the system being inside so we took the rig out ontop the steps over looking the front garden of this place. Was a really nice atmosphere to be honest.

Was all good til it got dark and a bunch of black girls (I say this as this party was pretty much all white kids) wandered into the garden (no security btw) and asked us to play dancehall. Not my type of reggae and I was spinning vinyl but my mate who's night it was had some on his phone and preceeded to put it on. Around 8pm I started turning it down and intended to pack up for the night and not cause any noise complaints from the neightbours across the street. Unfortunately he'd found the master control on the mixer so kept turning it up. Noting this was probably going to attract the wrong crowd I turned everything off and began to back up...

As that happened I looked down the garden and saw a group of about 10+ black youths rush in and start beating everyone in sight asking for their money. Kids I knew were jumping over fences nearly breaking their necks to escape, girls got hit in the face... and all this happened while I'm stood behind a stack of 18" scoop bass bins, vinyl, decks and a mixer....

Luckily my mate showed up and we were having a beer at the time so I wasn't completely alone but it was horrible watching it all. I had no misconceptions that I'd get beaten and all my shit stolen so I was tense as fuck and didn't know what to do. I felt helpless.

For whatever reason myself and my mate got left alone. Some lads even ran past us to get into the house (it was a Ukranian Centre that you could hire out) and no doubt have a look around...

They eventually ran off, police got called, showed up 15 minutes later to take statements etc. I rolled my speakers into the van, consoled a few of my friends and got the hell out of there.

Very scary experience. No doubt the bunch of girls who showed up tipped off their boyfriends. Bunch of white kids having a party outside with loud music and no security... it's was a stupid idea really. I do regret moving the system outside and hold myself accountable for putting all those kids in that position (to some extent).

Party in a rough neighbourhood? Hire door staff!

lloyd

fretmeister said:

lloyd said:

Didn't realise you were mates, that makes it more tricky....

A mate of mine was in a band with a drummer he went to school with. Best mates for 40 years, but a terrible drummer.

Mate was so desperate to not hurt his feelings he quit the band, then "joined" another band and the other guys slowly moved over to the new band. apart from the drummer.

If you've been mates 40 years I think it would be easier to say "you're shit and out the band unless you improve 10fold in the next x weeks...."

There's mates, and there's mates.

Your way might be a good one for Tom if they're all worried about feelings-split the band and reform sans drummer...

Cirrus

thomasross20;886497" said:

How about this alternative (I know, I'm loathe to confront!!): - we keep doing practices but confront him every time he messes up timing or beats. Relentlessly. At least then it's like the whole band commenting on his technical abilities. Last few times he got so frustrated he mentioned quitting twice. If he says it again, we can just say "ok then"

This is a bad idea. It turns you into monsters and practices will become a horrible snakepit of passive aggressive nonsense. Constantly pointing out someone's failings isn't the way to make them better - ask anyone who's been in a long term relationship! You'll end up hating each other.

Fire him, keep it amicable and give a clear reason so he knows it's not personal. He hasn't learned his parts and his timing is off. You just have to grow a spine and do it!

Roland

Tom. Life's too short. Dragging this out doesn't help anyone, except forumites who like a soap opera. Have you discussed with the rest of the band, and got their agreement? If so then have the conversation with your drummer before Christmas, and start looking for a replacement. It doesn't help him to string him along. It points out to your fellow band members that you are serious about the band. If they are wobbly in their own capability or aspirations then they will either walk too, or fall in behind you. Either way you take a step towards a more stable, competent band.

thomasross20

Deed is done in that the call was made. 

Had an honest chat about things. 

He's over-committed with other things and this band is definitely not making money which is a real motivator for him. 

He's as much said he's going to quit of his own volition and we will speak again tonight. 

lloyd

thomasross20 said:

Deed is done in that the call was made. 

Had an honest chat about things. 

He's over-committed with other things and this band is definitely not making money which is a real motivator for him. 

He's as much said he's going to quit of his own volition and we will speak again tonight. 

This is a great example of how honest communication solves lots of issues.

thomasross20

It was easier than I thought. 

If he was a different character and it was a definite "you have to go" things may have been different. 

I did talk around the off-beats and not learning songs thing by mentioning them in the same context as him having other bands, being busy and noticing tension in the practice room. Speaking again after work today so will see what happens. He knows he needs to do better, not only in this but in other bands. 

Money is a motivator and that's not what this band is really about. 

Also Edinburgh noise rules mean it's tough for rock bands in general.

He's half-tempted to sell his kit!

failed_astronaut

Thomas, I think, when you find a new, more capable drummer, you'll find everything a bit easier.

Well done on having the tough conversation, I've done it and it's never pleasant regardless of whether they're friends or not.