The singing thread

Bidley

@hugbot if you've got any tips on developing your mixed voice, I'd be interested to hear them!

Drew_TNBD

Wow. Lots to read through here, and I will. I'll even post a similar clip to Sambostar's.

@Hugbot - dude the way you were talking the other night, I didn't think you'd sound that advanced. But honestly, I'm impressed! Definitely would like to hear from you about your vocal journey.

@Sambostar - I've done about a year and a half worth of lessons at Vox Box, in Camden. But I'm looking around for some specialist rock teachers right now, so I can get a wider set of influences and advice on technique.

Here is that one track we put out on the last album, with about two minutes of singing at the start:
http://bridgedisaster.co.uk/track/passing

I'll post more, but just got back from Damnation and I'm pretty tired.

monquixote

I sing a bit of backing vocals.

I had singing lessons for a few months to get over a bit of a knock to my confidence I had in a previous band and that helped me a lot.

I do one track of lead vocals with my current band and I really enjoy it.

Sambostar

Not to derail the thread but check this guys face at 0.42

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMY9WJnGzig

TimmyO

I had lessons with 2 different teachers - both were excellent and I made lots of progress from a couple of blocks of lessons.

I realised that it's like a muscle (well, lots of muscles but you get my point) and by exercising it you get better. For me, I needed to practice consistently for the improvements and consistency to come beyond a certain point.

For some people there is a natural fear of self-consciousness about singing, despite them really wanting to do it. You need to get beyond that - go somewhere you won't be heard or bothered by it when you practice and play around with your voice a bit, see how it works, feel how adding certain expression or tones works, have some fun.

As far as technique goes, I'd highly recommend getting some lessons to start, it just gets you going quicker.

For practice, the best set of drills I found that seemed to really help were the ones in this book/CD:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Vocal-Workout-Step-Step/dp/1844920038

Sambostar

Still getting A1 confused with A2.  I mean I know A2 is the A below an open low E (E2) on the guitar, but associated vocal pitch wise I mean.  I think I might be a bass singer after all.  How sad.

The problem I have is range:  Roughly a B through B to high B, it's not singing properly or anything but I can just go a bit higher and a bit lower, maybe a tone, but I figure most people can start around the second B in the middle or even the bottom B and go way upwards from there or am I wrong?  What I the lowest (Wannbe) note?  A B2 or a B1?  B2?

https://soundcloud.com/user360616451/ridiculous

It's not really how I actually sing and a bit strained, but wouldn't mind to hear others attempting some sort of scale to compare really.  It's kind of skinny, average white, non musical trash, but definitely not a tenor.

meltedbuzzbox

I am singerist as well

there are some great tips on here but what I would recommend for those that are trying to teach themselves is you really need lessons. 

Its a complex beast and you really need that guidance to help you not damage yourself more than anything. 

Understanding how to connect on the breath pressure and not strain yourself to deliver a note is very important. 

And dont be afraid to sound terrible, singing is more mental than physical. Always try to relax and most importantly enjoy it

Sambostar

Don't want to but in and take over again, but I just found out (I didn't know before) the "1,2,3,4,5,6" terminology refers to octaves on an 88 key piano, ascending in frequency.

So indeed E2 is a low E on the guitar, but an open A is A2, not A3 as I thought (I thought it ran A-E).  The pitch of tones actually run from C to C as a keyboard does.

So from an open low E string (E2), getting lower, it would go D2, C2, B1, A1, G1, F1, D1, C1, B0, A0, G0,  F0, D0, C0.

So my lowest is about an A1 and I'd put my range about B1-B2-B3.  Which is fucking ace innit.  I'm getting into falsetto territory when most people are singing comfortably in the middle of their range.

Shit pants.  No wonder I can't sing 99% of pop songs. Just an observation.

Drew_TNBD

Sambostar said:

I'm really confused, could I see some octave notes, post it and someone identify what octave it is?

A1 is 55KHz. that is ridiculous.  So I think my lowest is A2, the A belong an open E (E2), however my normal talking voice is around C#2 and I mostly grunt and grumble.  I know I have to drop some of Zevon's stuff by an octave in order to be able to sing it.  But I think I can easily hit an E2, E3 and just about an E4.  So I suppose I am a shit baritone after all.

I need to up my understanding of my own voice and octave references.

Could a post something quick and have someone who has been in a choir or what not listen to it to identify the struggling octaves?  Like this:

https://soundcloud.com/user360616451/b-scale-voice

Also, I'd really like to hear other people's ranges if you can put them up to compare.

So... that breath you take around 16 seconds.. you're breathing into your chest - ie; a high breath. Don't do that. You want to take a low breath, so that when you breathe in your belly rises and your chest should not rise at all really.

GavRichList

Worked with the singer from Forward Russia a lot in the past (he really can sing) - best tip he ever passed on was that when you're trying to hit a high note with conviction, clench your arse and picture singing out of your forehead. GOD KNOWS why this works, but it does.

meltedbuzzbox

GavRichList said:

Worked with the singer from Forward Russia a lot in the past (he really can sing) - best tip he ever passed on was that when you're trying to hit a high note with conviction, clench your arse and picture singing out of your forehead. GOD KNOWS why this works, but it does.

tucking your tail bone in ;-) It helps line everything up.

Strangely it also helps to think down when you go up in pitch and dont try to alter or strain anything to get there

jonnygreentrees

GavRichList said:

Worked with the singer from Forward Russia a lot in the past (he really can sing) - best tip he ever passed on was that when you're trying to hit a high note with conviction, clench your arse and picture singing out of your forehead. GOD KNOWS why this works, but it does.

I like iForward Russia! but think he's a terrible singer! Horses for courses...

Sambostar

Thanks @Drew_fx, that's what I'm looking for - free tips for zero outlay! 

Just been practicing badly.  Max is an F4.....in falsetto.  Singer I am not. It was the week or TWO in A HA, the low one though.  I always thought it was an E5, so I'm probably singing the whole thing an octave lower.  Can just about scrape a strained E4 in my head voice and not falsetto, but it's about as reliable as my voice was when I was 14.  You know that guy on X Factor...?

Worked out Mmm by Crash Test Dummies and did a couple of times through and it didn't sounds so good....until I worked out I was singing it an octave lower than it should be.

Depressing all this singing lark.

If there is anyone else like me who is struggling to come to terms with their range and octave recognition, what I've been doing is singing a note, in chest head or falsetto whatever, recording it and playing it back and then playing a sign wave in parallel, it's fairly easy to recognise what frequency is then, compared to middle C.  After a while you get a sense of what everything is and the pitch of octaves.

It's tough to work out though as some people have rich reasonant voices and others, like me thin ones.  I found this the best way.  As I only have a musical ear as regards guitar tone.

The outlook is fairly bleak.

Mind you, on a more positive note, I can sing Death Metal without even straining my voice.  Just got to learn to breath and project more.  Can't swim too good for the same reason.

I wonder if good swimmers and surfers make good singers?

Drew_TNBD

Well I said I'd post some stuff... feel a bit naked doing this, but oh well fuck it. Maybe it will help some people. Here are some of the exercises that I do - I try to do them often, but I am really slack with it. The one thing that will scupper anything creative you try to do, but especially singing... laziness!!



What I'm focusing on with these can be broken down to a few things:

Resonance in the nasal cavity (this is actually something you DO want)
Neutral larynx position - not too low, not too high. Not squeezed or constricted.
Vowel consistency - trying not to get narrow or wider the higher I go up
Brightness - what CVT calls "necessary twang" or "twanging the epiglottic funnel"

Sam, it sounds to me like you need to focus on that last one initially. Work out how to get your voice to have some twang to it. Being Aussie it should be a lot easier than for some guy from the Midlands like me

Check this out: http://completevocalinstitute.com/research/description-of-twang/

As for my recordings... I could do better. I screwed up the ordering of vowels in the bright/dark sets. I should probably learn to count.

Sambostar

Ace!!!!  You is good.   Your falsetto goes about 5 or 6 tones above mine.  Same with other exercises although you probably go as low as I do easily give or take.  I'm sure it's the practice.  This is gold dust Drew.  Thanks!

Sambostar

Right, I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that everyone more or less has the same kit, but not everyone knows how to use it.  But you can even teach kids with absolutely no natural ability to draw and paint, so I guess there must be hope.  I'm struggling with breathing.  It's also the reason why I tense up when going up the register, no matter how low I start out on.

This is the Mmmm I worked out, had enough of deeper stuff now as I don't think I am naturally that deep.  I should start swimming or something I guess.  Every time I have problems breathing I go for another fag.

https://soundcloud.com/user360616451/mmmm

randomhandclaps

I'm trying to convince Mrs RHC to do a vocal exercise helper to put up here.  She says as soon as she has time she'll do it.

Drew_TNBD

randomhandclaps said:

I'm trying to convince Mrs RHC to do a vocal exercise helper to put up here.  She says as soon as she has time she'll do it.

Tell her I'll be a bit less of a misogynistic arsehole if she does it!

RocknRollDave

Will definitely be pillaging some tips from this thread.

Having been guitarist in a wedding band for 6+ years, with backing vocals but no real pressure, I am now to be thrust into the spotlight as our singer is quitting at the end of the year so I am taking over fronting the band.

Did my first ever lead vocal recordings in a studio last night, three songs to a pre-recorded backing, which will serve as a demo for prospective clients. Went better than I expected, but am still yet to cross over from the mindset that I am a guitarist having a go at singing to actually thinking of myself as a singer.

randomhandclaps

Drew_fx said:

randomhandclaps said:

I'm trying to convince Mrs RHC to do a vocal exercise helper to put up here.  She says as soon as she has time she'll do it.

Tell her I'll be a bit less of a misogynistic arsehole if she does it!

She likes you as you are.  I think she'd see any step towards lily-livered pussy whippery as a sign of weakness.

Sambostar said:

Your falsetto goes about 5 or 6 tones above mine. 

Although it's a taste thing, I also think Drew's falsetto is very recordable and listenable which is fairly rare IME.