The singing thread

Drew_TNBD

Cabicular said:

randomhandclaps said:

@Cabicular ;- I don't know whether you were talking about the tracks particular (or you worked hard to avoid it) but I don't find too much twang in your voice.  It's natural enough to not sound contrived - which for me is far worse that colloquial.  I think you've hit a great balance.

Thanks I appreciate that. I learned to sing live though so I have quite a 'hard' tone that I don't really like in recording. Cuts through live. Also I'm really a harmony singer so I find the jump to lead singing a bit jarring

Harmony singing is all about pitch and range and less about tone. I want to try and get more dynamics in my voice and I think I need to sing lower stuff quieter...

I think you should embrace it. It sounds decent to me.

Drew_TNBD

This is a good read too:
https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/comments/3sgnco/six_years_of_bad_experience_and_now_i_cant_get/

Cabicular

That poor guy
His problems are all breath and Rhythm
Thing is I'm an alright guitar player and a good harmony singer and as a result I always end up in bands with Amazing singers. Although I've tried to carve my own corner out one of the things you do as a Harmony singer is start to impersonate the main vocalist. As a result I don't think I've managed to develop my own style as a lead singer. You have a more stylised and distinctive voice. Mine is in tune but just a bit meh.
It's frustrating... I work with loads of singers who maltreat their voice.. Do the barest of warm ups.. Know fuck all technique but open their Golden Tonsils and every panty in the house drops (blokes included)
Me ... I have to work like fuck just to be ok

DiscoStu

randomhandclaps said:

@DiscoStu - I really liked that.  I listened to it twice because my of question was going to be whether you recorded the vocals in one take because on first listening it seem like the body of the vocals tails off like you were tiring.  Then on second listening (when not focusing so much on the vocals) the only issue is that one that electric guitar comes in either the vox need to come up slightly on the guitar down and as the song progresses the percussive sidestick is quite tiring on your ears and they start to shut down a bit.  Vocals are grand though.  Great work, sir.

Cheers. It wasn't recorded to be a masterclass in production or drum programming! My mate set me a challenge to record a medley of three songs of my choice and there had to be two guitars and a vocal. I was tight for the deadline he gave me and had never figured how to program the drum machine on my Zoom multitrack so just picked a beat which matched the 3 songs. It was only really for him to hear but as I'm happy enough with my singing on it I thought I'd shove it on here.

In case you weren't sure, the songs are:

dEUS - Instant Street

Kraftwerk - The Model

Prince - When Doves Cry

Drew_TNBD

Cabicular;854326" said:

That poor guy
His problems are all breath and Rhythm
Thing is I'm an alright guitar player and a good harmony singer and as a result I always end up in bands with Amazing singers. Although I've tried to carve my own corner out one of the things you do as a Harmony singer is start to impersonate the main vocalist. As a result I don't think I've managed to develop my own style as a lead singer. You have a more stylised and distinctive voice. Mine is in tune but just a bit meh.
It's frustrating... I work with loads of singers who maltreat their voice.. Do the barest of warm ups.. Know fuck all technique but open their Golden Tonsils and every panty in the house drops (blokes included)
Me ... I have to work like fuck just to be ok

More twang, more pronounced vowel shapes, and more lower abdominal activity. That's what I'd be trying out if I were you.

Just had a lesson with a different teacher who uses the estill method. Learnt some new stuff.

My posture and anchoring needs a lot of work.

randomhandclaps

DiscoStu said:

randomhandclaps said:

@DiscoStu - I really liked that.  I listened to it twice because my of question was going to be whether you recorded the vocals in one take because on first listening it seem like the body of the vocals tails off like you were tiring.  Then on second listening (when not focusing so much on the vocals) the only issue is that one that electric guitar comes in either the vox need to come up slightly on the guitar down and as the song progresses the percussive sidestick is quite tiring on your ears and they start to shut down a bit.  Vocals are grand though.  Great work, sir.

Cheers. It wasn't recorded to be a masterclass in production or drum programming! My mate set me a challenge to record a medley of three songs of my choice and there had to be two guitars and a vocal. I was tight for the deadline he gave me and had never figured how to program the drum machine on my Zoom multitrack so just picked a beat which matched the 3 songs. It was only really for him to hear but as I'm happy enough with my singing on it I thought I'd shove it on here.

In case you weren't sure, the songs are:

dEUS - Instant Street

Kraftwerk - The Model

Prince - When Doves Cry

Yeah appreciated.  To be clear, in no way was I knocking the recording or mix as it was (I know you said it was rough and ready), just pointing out that when I stopped focussing on the vocal completely it was only the balance that created the illusion I heard on the first time that they were fading.  Really impressive for someone who doesn't call themselves a singer.

DiscoStu

I would love to take singing lessons but there aren't any vocal coaches near me. I've looked.

Sambostar

The more I listened the more I noticed even YOU strained and tightened up a little bit on the bit that wasn't the main verse comfort zone catchy tune.  I'm glad, as the only lazy/feckless/reddit/redneck style guy here it gave me hope.  I think singing slower is actually much more difficult perhaps I really don't know though really.

I tried something different just now.  5 takes and the mic was still distorting, then saved it as a Wav and it sounds all thin and compressed to bollocks and the low end has all disappeared compared the thing still on Audacity, what is that about?  So anyway, this is around the register I can put power into, and I know it's crap and all, and not that low, although I believe the bloke who sings it sings the chorus an octave higher, but I can't do pitch that comfortably. 

So this is my 10 minutes worth of working out a tune on guitar and then practicing singing with it for tonight eh.  It would be funny of it wasn't so tragic.  Just have to work the Hitler version now.

https://soundcloud.com/user360616451/dich-mich-speaking

Sambostar

Seriously if all you guys with a slightly higher, richer and softer register could only know how guys like me envy your abilities.  It's like after puberty I went from a cute round faced bright eyed 11 year old where all the girls fancied me to a boney, long faced, cut jawed, mean looking 30 something year old who couldn't speak without squawking for 5 years.  I know, the only solution is to cut my balls off.

It's kind of why I am interested in Drews voice particularly because he strikes me as being slightly lower down the register.  No idea if that is right or not, but it's the impression I get.

However, the Reddit guy and me to an extent, it kind of reminds me of a thread on another forum about a guy who wants to speed pick metally runs and stuff. As far as I know, the thread is still going some 6 to 8 years on and the guy, who has played some 30 years, still can't speed pick much at all.  It definitely is about practice, getting lessons and practicing the right thing I think.

meltedbuzzbox

you need to accept your voice, take what you have and make it good, dont aim to be something you're not

once you get other that hurdle things improve dramatically

Sambostar

True, for me particularly, I'm 40 now for fucks sake and still haven't got to grips or accepted my voice.  When I try and sing how I still remember I could sing, it comes out squawky.  I think 4 or 5 years of voice breaking really does you confidence in.  Even now if I go and see bands and sing along or even cheer in the octave it comes out all over the place, or like I am being ridiculous and putting on a stupid high camp voice and everyone turns around and looks at me.  But in reality, it's just me straining to hit the slower register of what they take for granted.

Shallow breathing doesn't help either.  I supposed my angle, as opposed to the revered semi professionals on here, well I revere them at any rate, I think they are all ace, is that, in a pub, a low voice just doesn't carry over the waffle.  I go to Morrisons and can't hear myself speak over the cacophony.  I really don't think the register is suited to popular music for that very reason and the artists who sing in a low register I could probably count on one hand and even they are more like a baritone than a bass.

This is why I shop at Lidl or the local.  It couldn't possible be the lack of practice, working alone all day and 30 fags a day.  No way in the world, it's a god damn conspiracy is what it is.

I love hearing people sing on hear though.  It is ace.  We need more.

Drew_TNBD

meltedbuzzbox said:

you need to accept your voice, take what you have and make it good, dont aim to be something you're not

I don't really agree with this advice to be honest. Not at the stage any of us are at.

monquixote

Drew_fx said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

you need to accept your voice, take what you have and make it good, dont aim to be something you're not

I don't really agree with this advice to be honest. Not at the stage any of us are at.

It can take years to even find what "your" voice is.

Drew_TNBD

monquixote said:

Drew_fx said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

you need to accept your voice, take what you have and make it good, dont aim to be something you're not

I don't really agree with this advice to be honest. Not at the stage any of us are at.

It can take years to even find what "your" voice is.

Yeah definitely. I am just coming to terms with this even now. So I don't think you should just hear the first thing and go "okay... that's my voice... time to make it better" - I don't think it's that simple.

Sam for instance, seems hung up on the fact that he has a deep voice and it is preventing him from hitting higher notes. The reality is that it's probably just technique and a reluctance to experience falsetto sounds that are blocking him from accessing those higher notes. Was the first hurdle I had to tackle when I started taking lessons in March 2014.

The teacher I went to see last night kinda blew my mind with some of the stuff he was saying... and he really sounded like he knew what he was talking about, and he could sing. Things like (and I'm paraphrasing) I don't believe that it's physically possible to mix the voice the way SLS teaches you...

For anyone who has done a year of SLS based training, that is quite a bold statement. I am intrigued by this guy and his approach. He comes from a blues and rnb background, which according to CVT (Complete Vocal Technique) has direct links with rock and metal singing.

Watch the video here on 'grunt' - http://completevocalinstitute.com/research/description-and-sound-of-grunt/

It starts off quite bluesy, but the last few seconds go quite death metal. So the technique for both genres if you like is the same... it's really about how far you go with it.

Cirrus

monquixote said:

It can take years to even find what "your" voice is.

Then, after years of dreaming that you are the next Freddie Mercury, you realise that you're better suited to "Mickey Mouse with a sore throat" impersonations. :-B

Sambostar

Any exercises you can do to increase resonance?  Is it just incorporating more nasal resonance in?

I think that is my biggest gripe, not range, but richness and resonance.

I have worked out, although I can just hit a wavey G1, my comfortable range is B1-B3 although I can just hit an E4. 

Not exactly Ed Sheeran quality is it?  But it matters not, I just want to make it wound richer and more resonant?

Sometime's I think it is a physical thing, that maybe voices are reflective of your build, like guitars. If your are wirey with no body fat, small lungs and a huge adams apple like me, you are always going to be like Maple or Northern Ash with a JB stuck in it compared to other peoples mahogany with a PAF.

My problem is singing in a D2 is kind of rich, but I don't have much room to go downwards, however, singing in D3 which is more in the middle sounds thin and doesn't have the resonance and equally, I don't have much room to go upwards then either.

I suppose the answer is to use a capo or transpose everything to A2 or B2.  Grrrr though.

Also, this thinness isn't just a feature of my singing voice, it is also how I speak as well and what is particularly irritating is that when you half speak. half sing low to pitch, it sounds like a bad version of Leonard Cohen and tuneless, although, again, if you turn the pitch up 5 octave on your software on replay, it sounds pleasure and thoroughly in tune.  I think some of the problem is hat people's ears drop off towards the lower range, so it has to be so much more resonant and loud to be heard or taken tunefully.  At least I tell myself this, although the reality is that my voice is just thin and shite.

It is true to as extent though, I mean, if your speaking voice is a D4, you can grumble away and people will understand you.  I have to speak really clearly and project my voice and even then people have difficulty hearing me and I don't even have a particularly deep voice.

But regarding my thin voicing, can anyone listen to my Dich Mich versions and help or advise me?  Yeah I'm being selfish with other people's time, but problem is I would comment on others singing, but I'm not really qualified as it all sounds ace to my ears.

meltedbuzzbox

monquixote said:

Drew_fx said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

you need to accept your voice, take what you have and make it good, dont aim to be something you're not

I don't really agree with this advice to be honest. Not at the stage any of us are at.

It can take years to even find what "your" voice is.

you have taken that out of the intended context.

an example would be if you are clean sounding baritone dont try and be a gruff soprano etc

Drew_TNBD

meltedbuzzbox said:

monquixote said:

Drew_fx said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

you need to accept your voice, take what you have and make it good, dont aim to be something you're not

I don't really agree with this advice to be honest. Not at the stage any of us are at.

It can take years to even find what "your" voice is.

you have taken that out of the intended context.

an example would be if you are clean sounding baritone dont try and be a gruff soprano etc

Most voice teachers for pop and rock singing that I've come across don't put much stock in voice types. They're more useful for classical singing where you have to project across a sound stage and that is indeed their original intention.

Even a clean sounding baritone can be a gruff soprano if they put the work in and get their technique right.

And @Sambostar - your speaking voice has very little to do with your singing voice. They're just not the same thing.

Sambostar

Here is an interesting factoid.  In a study analysing attractiveness rating and vocal pitch, or frequency of the spoken voice, women preferred men with lower voices and men, women with higher voices.  Here is the thing though, women preferred men with lower voices until 96Hz, lower than that and they preferred men with higher voices.  Now 96Hz is only around G2 territory, it's not really that low if you think about it.  No wonder I can't get any action.

However I wonder if the same applies to singing as defines popular music. 

See, my theory is that way too high or too low and what with the way the human ears designed, with audible hearing dropping off at each end of the scale, most people probably have difficulty picking out the intonation of the words and dialect or song, thus it either comes across as a constant headache inducing shrill or a constant monotonal Leonard Cohen, when in actual fact, if you put it on an oscilloscope it isn't at all.  And so singing in the middle of the human ear range comes across as dynamic and poppy with easily audible changes in intonation and these changes in intonation basically equate to emotional expression, so this is why the ranges are so popular, because they are expressive.  Now who on here has an oscilloscope....

I'm gonna get my Leonard Cohen records out and play them at 45rpm just to prove myself right.

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0032719

So yeah, accept your voice for what it is and sing in your natural range, just don't expect anyone to listen to it, because it's been scientifically proven that they won't.

Great innit.

Sambostar

Drew_fx said:

And @Sambostar - your speaking voice has very little to do with your singing voice. They're just not the same thing.

It does if you are as talentless as I am!  The two are essential one thing.  lol.