Another music pub closing - you know why don't you?

TheDarkLord

I'm actually thinking of giving up gigging.  Too many venues are closing.  When I say venues, I mean music pubs that me and my 3 piece power trio have been playing in.  One mainstay of the area local to me is closing this weekend.

According to the info from the pub landlord, it's all the fault of the money grabbing brewery who are squeezing the tenant too much.  There might be something in that, but you know .......... I suspect the reason is a lot simpler.

People just don't go to pubs in the numbers that they used to any more.  I'm in my 50s now, but when I was in my early 20s and out on the lash, you could hardly get to the bar - it was three of four people deep with lots of servers.  Nowadays, the same pubs are far, far quieter - and there are next to no people in their late teens and 20s.  The audiences we play to are in their 40s and 50s and 60s.

I suspect, if the music scene had changed, constantly-evolved and kept up with the times, then there would be more 20 year olds in there. But all these people playing "classic rock" (in my view - you may not agree) have turned many a music pub into a dinosaur haunt.

The net result is less customers and they become unsustainable.  I know there are exceptions, and it may be different in big cities - but I reckon, if pubs were really busy and coining it in, then the brewery fees wouldn't seem as bad.

I'm fed up playing to half empty pubs full of old people (me included).  I amuse myself forever more with all the latest and vintage gear by myself at home - coupled with the odd open mic.  So I'm out, probably.

Do any of you agree / disagree or feel the same about giving up?

joeyowen

never give up for anyone else's reason but your own dude.

As for the reasons why they get less customers, is because too many pubs put fucking kareoke on because it's cheaper than a band...

To be fair, I agree that a lot of covers bands are stuck pre 90s, but most people in pubs are generally older

Jeremiah

Also because no one except middle aged folk with 20+ years in a "career" can afford to drink in pubs these days.

joeyowen

Pub prices are up

Supermarket prices are down

You can't smoke in a pub

Cirrus

The best bit is when you play a gig in a pub and the promoter/ landlord berate YOU for not bringing them all your family and friends to spend money in their fine establishment.

I've ranted about this at length before, but the only sustainable business model for pubs, clubs, promoters and bands is for drinking establishment to build up their own, healthy CLIENT BASE of repeat customers who go because they like the venue and trust that the entertainment on offer won't be shit.

TTony

Pubs have had to change.  Plenty of reasons - @joeyowen is right but there are plenty more.

UK culture has also changed.  For a pub to survive now it has to either be an open-all-day, cheapest-beer-and-food Wetherspoons product, or it's a restaurant with a bar.

The former can't afford to pay for a band.  The clientele in the latter really doesn't want a band.

So, "the pub circuit" is no longer the solution for the band's question of "where are we going to play".

I don't know what the answer is though, at least not until you can sell out the O2 for a week.

bluechargeboy

For us the answer is turning out to be festivals, private parties, alternative weddings, etc. We still do pub gigs but we have worked hard to get noticed by the "cool people" and get booked into their cool functions. Fortunately our drummer is tireless in applying for festivals and networking with promoters, other bands, sound engineers and so on.

Pub gigs can be quite joyless affairs when you are giving it your A-game and people are barely noticing and "clapping when the music stops", but then if someone comes up afterwards and books you for an event then it was worth doing.

The prevalence of open mic nights is indicative of pubs wanting cheap entertainment IMO. The punters provide their own music and you don't have to pay them!

Danny1969

Mmm my experience differs from some others. In my area the right band playing makes the pub busy, the pub sells a lot of beer, the band get paid quite well and everyone's generally happy. Some gigs are absolutely rammed, some can be quiet but for the most I enjoy them all and the money is well appreciated. It's still the easiest way to make money doing something I enjoy

@TheDarkLord  Your Chichester way aren't you ? if so your only 20 miles from me so try some of these :

The Heroes  - Waterlooville

The Woodman - Purbrook

The Hayling Billy - Hayling

The Admiral Drake - Portsmouth

The Tap - Portsmouth

The Golden Eagle - Portsmouth

The Curlew - Havent

The Carisbrook - Gosport

The West Leigh Club - West Leigh

The Lord Raglan - Emsworth 

The Railway - Emsworth

frictionfraction

Just about to leave for my gig tonight only 10 miles away. Drummer should be set up so I can get there 9:15 set up and ready to sound check for 10pm start ... And there's the problem, too many pubs, too few punters, start early and no ones out, start late and at 12:30 you get the bevvied up trying to get a few late drinks and not caring about th price and they still don't spend enough. The trend will not be reversed whilst the world moves more towards home entertainment and Friday night takeaways. Ido it because I would play at the opening of an envelope and I love it but I do fear that pub rocks days are numbered . @bluechargeboy has got it right for the way to go. Right .. I'm off.

thomasross20

I thought this was going to be about noise rules. 

OP you state several things. 

- people playing same music from years gone by (a bit similar to Guitarist mag blues features)

- money grabbing breweries

Which one were you getting at mostly?

thomasross20

Cirrus said:

The best bit is when you play a gig in a pub and the promoter/ landlord berate YOU for not bringing them all your family and friends to spend money in their fine establishment.

I've ranted about this at length before, but the only sustainable business model for pubs, clubs, promoters and bands is for drinking establishment to build up their own, healthy CLIENT BASE of repeat customers who go because they like the venue and trust that the entertainment on offer won't be shit.

+10000

thomasross20

Good point about open mic nights. 

Getting harder to get gigs around Edinburgh but that's mostly due to noise rules. 

Money is nowhere near as good as it used to be. 

Danny1969

thomasross20 said:

Cirrus said:

The best bit is when you play a gig in a pub and the promoter/ landlord berate YOU for not bringing them all your family and friends to spend money in their fine establishment.

I've ranted about this at length before, but the only sustainable business model for pubs, clubs, promoters and bands is for drinking establishment to build up their own, healthy CLIENT BASE of repeat customers who go because they like the venue and trust that the entertainment on offer won't be shit.

+10000

It needs an investment from both sides though to be fair. I've been playing one pub every month for over 11 years now and we get paid very well indeed but in the early days when the crowd was thin we kept at it and built it up bit by bit. Sometimes you have to do 10 gigs to gain 1 fan, it can be a slog to get a good following but it's worth it. We only managed to do it though cos the landlord let us play the place every month without fail. If you only play a place 4 times a year no one's gonna remember you, it's got to be a regular slot so you can built up a following

Moe_Zambeek

Not making this argument to anyone in particular, I like to think I've been in both of these situations myself.

Why is it *only* the pub's responsibility to bring punters?

This is a chicken and egg thing, I think. Ideally, venues should only book great bands and therefore people know you only get great bands at that venue. Music lovers will go there for the quality music. Great bands will *also* have people who want to see them play, so they'll go and swell the numbers at the great venue. Responsibility for packing the place = shared.

Average bands playing run of the mill covers will not attract a following. Why should the venue book them? They dont bring a crowd, they're only average and there are other great bands they could book.

Result= average bands play venues who don't care to people who don't care.

When it gets right down to it, most bands are by definition average and quite a lot are below average. I've been in some that were completely shit. Some of these bands don't even want to get any better, they just do it for a laugh, playing the classics. The market for that is more or less dead. There is no prospect for shit bands, it's much harder than it used to be even to get a slot on a showcase night. No one wants to watch four or five blokes looking at their shoes or their guitar neck while playing brown eyed girl.

Now...what was my point again?

thomasross20

Agree with you that playing infrequently makes it difficult to build any sort of following. 

Even with bandmates' relatives & friends, they'll only ever got to a few of your gigs a year.

Moe_Zambeek

Family and friends are not a following...they are there by obligation.

TheDarkLord

TTony said:

Pubs have had to change.  Plenty of reasons - @joeyowen is right but there are plenty more.

UK culture has also changed.  For a pub to survive now it has to either be an open-all-day, cheapest-beer-and-food Wetherspoons product, or it's a restaurant with a bar.

The former can't afford to pay for a band.  The clientele in the latter really doesn't want a band.

So, "the pub circuit" is no longer the solution for the band's question of "where are we going to play".

I don't know what the answer is though, at least not until you can sell out the O2 for a week.

This is about right.

TheDarkLord

thomasross20 said:

I thought this was going to be about noise rules. 

OP you state several things. 

- people playing same music from years gone by (a bit similar to Guitarist mag blues features)

- money grabbing breweries

Which one were you getting at mostly?

I think my post is quite plain.

John_P

The pubs that have good gigs in my area are the ones that invest in gigs by only having decent bands and paying for them so people can be pretty confident of a good night.  Bands with had decent gear, tight, entertaining and make an effort to help promote gigs.  The gigs that have disappeared tend to be when they try to cut costs with cheaper (often rubbish) bands and make little effort -  10 years ago if you put a band on, it was probably busy but times have moved on and it's harder work for sure but when an effort is made it can be really good.  

Danny1969

John_P said:

The pubs that have good gigs in my area are the ones that invest in gigs by only having decent bands and paying for them so people can be pretty confident of a good night.  Bands with had decent gear, tight, entertaining and make an effort to help promote gigs.  The gigs that have disappeared tend to be when they try to cut costs with cheaper (often rubbish) bands and make little effort -  10 years ago if you put a band on, it was probably busy but times have moved on and it's harder work for sure but when an effort is made it can be really good.  

Yep agreed. To be honest you get out of it what you put into it

Ianpdq

One simple answer the Pubcos are ripping off the landlords with beer prices Enterprise Inns own most of the pubs around here and charge twice as much for a barrel