Opening band want to borrow "everything" on a 4 band bill

digitalscream

ICBM said:

Basically, if you do these kinds of gigs then you need to accept one of two things… if you take your own gear, someone else will use it. If you don't, you have to play through whatever is available. If you're not happy with that, don't do this sort of gigs because you're going to thoroughly piss off everyone else.

Or, alternatively, be the one guy on the bill who's organised and email all the bands to sort out gear sharing (and what you're willing to share, along with what you're not) with plenty of notice. No hard feelings or awkward situations at all when you do that.

Deijavoo

Nah, I don't accept it for amps, pedals or guitars. Cabs is fine. Maybe only a few times I've ever been asked to share my amp anyways, a couple of times from an apologetic mate and once by a band who barely brought a string or stick between them.

Promoter quite rightly told said band to fuck off home.

Fiftyshadesofjay

ICBM said:

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

I'm surprised at everybody saying this is normal practice to be honest. As far as I'm concerned the amp is classed as breakables.

I would never gig with an amp which I thought might break if someone else used it - idiocy aside like that which digitalscream mentioned - since then it could break when I use it.

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

Always happy to share drum shells and cabs etc but heads or combos? No chance. 

Sorry, but the idea that it's fine for the drummer to have to share shells - and I'm assuming that means heads too, since I can't imagine anyone changing them between sets, and which are more easily damaged than anything in an amp - but not for guitarists to share amps is the perfect illustration of guitarists being too precious about their gear.

In my opinion.

As has been stated, when your head or combo costs 1000+, why on earth would you want to lend it to some idiot who you don't know and who probably doesn't even own an amp themselves?

I'm sure it won't break, but if it does I'll be up shit creek for when it gets to my time on stage.

Putting our own opinions aside, I'll reiterate that in 15 years of professional gigs and many multiple band bills I've honestly never come across a band that expected to share amps. It's standard practice as far as I'm concerned, and also as far as the other bands and promoters are concerned.

robinbowes

Bidley said:

This is why I always used to take a photo of my settings before lending an amp to someone on the same bill.

You mean you can't dial in your sound in seconds whilst drunk and asleep?? Bizarre...

R.

lloyd

This has been to death now.

I'm with @ICBM on this though.

Am I right thinking that those that don't want to share or haven't heard of this way of working play in covers/function bands?

In a multi band originals line up I'd say that most gigs involve a bit of gear share-more than breakables, maybe it's just the ones I do?

I think drum skins are far more likely to be damaged in general play than an amp yet these are automatically included in the shared back line.

ICBM

digitalscream said:

Or, alternatively, be the one guy on the bill who's organised and email all the bands to sort out gear sharing (and what you're willing to share, along with what you're not) with plenty of notice. No hard feelings or awkward situations at all when you do that.

That works well until you turn up to the three-band evening that's been booked and are told that there are now four or even five bands on. Been there so many times it was almost a surprise when it didn't happen - always the promoter's doing of course, as if they didn't think the night was chaotic enough yet. I went on the assumption that the bands who had already shared the gear provision wouldn't then want any other large stuff on stage and would be OK about the other bands using it too.

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

As has been stated, when your head or combo costs 1000+, why on earth would you want to lend it to some idiot who you don't know and who probably doesn't even own an amp themselves?

It doesn't bother me. It's just an amp - I'd probably rather they just used it and everyone is happy. The price is irrelevant, really - if anything a decent and probably expensive amp is actually less of a risk. No-one has ever broken one of my amps at a gig.

My previous drummer did get fed up with sharing a £1500 drum kit and having everyone else bugger around with the set-up the whole time though - which is a lot more work to put right than just turning some knobs - so perhaps I am overly sensitive when guitarists complain about it.

Fiftyshadesofjay said:

Putting our own opinions aside, I'll reiterate that in 15 years of professional gigs and many multiple band bills I've honestly never come across a band that expected to share amps. It's standard practice as far as I'm concerned, and also as far as the other bands and promoters are concerned.

I think you must have played less crap gigs than I did . It was pretty par for the course at the sort of places I mostly played. Even a couple of big-ish festivals - someone you'll have heard of borrowed my amp at one. He was very polite about asking and didn't break it . (He was playing a solo acoustic set so he'd just brought a guitar, and used my Trace Acoustic.)

The usual problem at the tiny gigs was when someone would turn up after the main soundcheck with an amp that hadn't been mentioned and insist on using it - "I can't use anything else, it's my sound" - move things around to fit it in on stage, then invariably be miles too loud when the soundman had got everything else set about right.

Maybe it's just me…

(Edit - no, lloyd must have posted at the same time!)

ElectroDan

I'm glad I don't play these types of gigs. This thread has been an eye opener for me.

I'm not saying I wouldn't lend an amp to a friend, or at a push another professional player in trouble at a gig in the same venue. But some promoter expecting me to turn up and let anybody they deem fit use my gear... Not going to happen.

If it's so good to let other people use your stuff, why don't the club/promoter buy gear that can stay there for everyone to use.

EricTheWeary

ElectroDan said:

I'm glad I don't play these types of gigs. This thread has been an eye opener for me.

I'm not saying I wouldn't lend an amp to a friend, or at a push another professional player in trouble at a gig in the same venue. But some promoter expecting me to turn up and let anybody they deem fit use my gear... Not going to happen.

If it's so good to let other people use your stuff, why don't the club/promoter buy gear that can stay there for everyone to use.

The last multi band gigs I did were in a venue that supplied a kit and back line - guitarists could either use the supplied Valvestate combo or plug a head into the supplied Marshall cab. The equipment was fairly , err, worn but it all worked. The onstage sound was always terrible, just the worst I've ever known yet watching the other bands out front they all sounded good. And if none of the guitarists had 'their sound' then I was unaware of it. 

ICBM

ElectroDan said:

If it's so good to let other people use your stuff, why don't the club/promoter buy gear that can stay there for everyone to use.

Some of the regular music venues that put on loads of bands do, in fact it's becoming quite common. It makes things very easy for everyone not having to load things in and out, the sound engineer knows what they have to work with, and it speeds up changeovers.

The usual problems are that it's not normally great gear - because that costs too much, so they use second-rate stuff which sometimes does break down - and that guitarists are often fussy about using their own amp so they "can't" use anything else and still insist on bringing theirs. The drummers and bassists don't seem to have the same issues…

PolarityMan

ICBM said:

ElectroDan said:

If it's so good to let other people use your stuff, why don't the club/promoter buy gear that can stay there for everyone to use.

Some of the regular music venues that put on loads of bands do, in fact it's becoming quite common. It makes things very easy for everyone not having to load things in and out, the sound engineer knows what they have to work with, and it speeds up changeovers.

The usual problems are that it's not normally great gear - because that costs too much, so they use second-rate stuff which sometimes does break down - and that guitarists are often fussy about using their own amp so they "can't" use anything else and still insist on bringing theirs. The drummers and bassists don't seem to have the same issues…

I see provided back lines at a lot of festivals smaller stages

ElectroDan

It makes sense. It can be miked up and ready for the bands to come in.

lloyd

ElectroDan said:

I'm glad I don't play these types of gigs. This thread has been an eye opener for me.

I'm not saying I wouldn't lend an amp to a friend, or at a push another professional player in trouble at a gig in the same venue. But some promoter expecting me to turn up and let anybody they deem fit use my gear... Not going to happen.

If it's so good to let other people use your stuff, why don't the club/promoter buy gear that can stay there for everyone to use.

Yeah there are more places providing full back lines. Must make the sound guys job easier, and most people despite what they say get a lot of "their sound" from pedals or can dial in with any amp to get close enough to the sound for the level of gigs I play at. Again with ICBM in that I'd be absolutely shocked/surprised if my amp got damaged in anyway whatsoever from someone using it-the people I meet seem to know their way round an amp. Each their own of course.

Fiftyshadesofjay

PolarityMan said:

ICBM said:

ElectroDan said:

If it's so good to let other people use your stuff, why don't the club/promoter buy gear that can stay there for everyone to use.

Some of the regular music venues that put on loads of bands do, in fact it's becoming quite common. It makes things very easy for everyone not having to load things in and out, the sound engineer knows what they have to work with, and it speeds up changeovers.

The usual problems are that it's not normally great gear - because that costs too much, so they use second-rate stuff which sometimes does break down - and that guitarists are often fussy about using their own amp so they "can't" use anything else and still insist on bringing theirs. The drummers and bassists don't seem to have the same issues…

I see provided back lines at a lot of festivals smaller stages

Yep, in my experience it's almost always provided at festivals, and more often than not they insist on you using it (or at least the cabs) if you're on a smaller stage.

Hardly ever see provided gear at regular gigs.

Deijavoo

lloyd said:

Am I right thinking that those that don't want to share or haven't heard of this way of working play in covers/function bands?

Not me, only bands I've been in have played originals.

lloyd

Deijavoo;858629" said:

lloyd said:

Am I right thinking that those that don't want to share or haven't heard of this way of working play in covers/function bands?



Not me, only bands I've been in have played originals.

That wasn't a dig at covers bands btw I've played in them.

You Must be playing a higher level than the gigs I've played.

Deijavoo

lloyd said:

Deijavoo;858629" said:

lloyd said:

Am I right thinking that those that don't want to share or haven't heard of this way of working play in covers/function bands?



Not me, only bands I've been in have played originals.

That wasn't a dig at covers bands btw I've played in them.

You Must be playing a higher level than the gigs I've played.

Lol! Not at all, tiny pubs and the odd cool venue. Kinda 50/50 mix and the only time we get a decent crowd is home town gigs.

Plus, we've only played 3 gigs this year. An all time record low, must be my sharing policies.  

p90fool

ICBM;858120" said:

p90fool said:

I reserve the right to be "precious" about something I spent 750 quid on and which I will need to use later on.





So ask the drummer if he feels the same, and if he does, why should he have to lend his kit when you won't lend your amp?.

He is a she, and no she doesn't either.
A few years ago we played on a shared bill with Spandau Ballet and their prick of a drummer totally destroyed our snare head. It had the texture of a golf ball by the time he'd finished with it so we had to grab the spare out of the van to do our set.

Nobody uses our gear, ever, for any reason and that's it. It's not a hobby for us, we need the money.

Last year a really good friend begged me to lend her my keyboard amp for a set after ours. She's a really sweet girl and she delivered it to my house as promised the following morning with smiles and profound thanks, with two of the EQ pots smashed off the amp. She said she'd thought they were like that already (they weren't) and I just agreed with her because it's not worth losing friends over, but if I'd had to pay a shop to fix that it would've effectively meant I'd played my last couple of gigs for free.
What am I gonna do, beat money out of these people or just say no next time?

ICBM

p90fool said:

He is a she

So was mine . Not sure why that matters.

p90fool said:

A few years ago we played on a shared bill with Spandau Ballet and their prick of a drummer totally destroyed our snare head. It had the texture of a golf ball by the time he'd finished with it so we had to grab the spare out of the van to do our set.

I thought snares were counted as breakables, along with cymbals. Most drummers want to use their own anyway. If their drummer didn't have one I'd have lent him the spare, probably.

p90fool said:

Last year a really good friend begged me to lend her my keyboard amp for a set after ours. She's a really sweet girl and she delivered it to my house as promised the following morning with smiles and profound thanks, with two of the EQ pots smashed off the amp. She said she'd thought they were like that already (they weren't) and I just agreed with her because it's not worth losing friends over, but if I'd had to pay a shop to fix that it would've effectively meant I'd played my last couple of gigs for free. 

What am I gonna do, beat money out of these people or just say no next time?

I would have asked her to pay for the repair. You didn't have to blame her for breaking it, but it definitely happened while she was in charge of it.

To be honest I also don't usually lend out gear like that - it's different from letting someone else play through it while you're there. That sort of damage is much more likely than anything that happens when someone is just using an amp.

Also to be fair someone did once blow a monitor speaker of mine, when I lent it out to a jam night when I wasn't there. They connected it to a larger amp than the one I'd given them to use with it. I can only really blame myself for that though...

lloyd

Yeah I thought snares were breakables too.

I'd get my mate to fix breakages if I lent my guitar out to be honest...

@p90fool you sound like the unluckiest guy in the world when it comes to breakages, if you're relying on the cash that comes from it I can kind of understand the attitude I guess.

p90fool

Not really unlucky tbh, I just tend to avoid those situations.

I tend to regard snare drums as breakables too, but there ya go. Spandau Ballet's guitarist borrowed my gear that night and was an absolute gent about it, only the drummer was an arrogant dick.