Gordon Smith and Richard's Guitars

RichardsGuitars

Thank you to anyone who has said anything in support of my action.  I will just make a few points then I promise not to keep jumping back in!  Hope my comments are welcomed...

1.  With regards to the payment side.  I thought it was right to provide "the other side to the story" by making it clear they had put me on pro-forma.  This is of course their way of continuing to make my life difficult to trade with them because frankly I have become a pain in their neck.  A they say, nobody else ever complains - well dealer don't!! If they can shift it - they will!!

All I ever talk about with Linda is payment in 30 days.  Nobody wants to discuss the issues, returns, discounts or my lost sales if someone has been waiting 3 + months for a guitar I then tell the customer is not good enough.  Hence where we have a problem.

Gordon-Smith guitar sales makes up just 4% of my turnover.  It takes a huge amount of time per sale as you have to discuss all the requirements and of course I want to get it right for the customer.  I just have not had the time available to then chase GS for the models I am waiting for, update the customer on the delays and then to have to deal with the fall out when the guitar is not up to scratch.  It is soul destroying.

I am the UKs largest dealer in ALL the products I specialise in - ok, I don't specialise in much!! lol but they are ALL benchmarks in their genre.

Stonebridge - World Class acoustics, Godin - Incredible Canadian made guitars that have moved the musical boundaries in terms of what a guitar does, Faith Guitars which are the briidging gap between the very best of what you will get from the Far East and then World Class tone from Stonebridge.

Then of course I specialise in the reconditioning and resale of quality used guitars - every one set up to perfection in our workshop.

On average I pay my main distributors in the region of £4000-£6000 a month.

I may pay GS on average £800 a month!  As I said to them, my sales have been a labour of LOVE and if it had been an economical decision I would have dropped it a long time ago (hence why you don't see them in the shops). 

I won't lose any character in my shop because my shop is driven by my passion for doing the right thing - if that doesn't include GS then thats the way it has to be.

I will always love Gordon Smith guitars in terns of what I know they CAN be but regrettably I simply cannot accommodate their business model.

I will still continue to recommend them if people buy into the right models and buy with their eyes open and with information such as what I have put out will help people know a little more about the pros and cons.

Personally I would recommend up to the Gypsy model for best value, not black (!) and don't worry about the odd blemish etc.  You will be fine!

Thanks again to anyone who appreciates what I do - and sorry to those that don't!  But always happy to chat about guitars with anyone who wants to!!

octatonic

If you want to know why you aren't some people's cup of tea then re-read some of your posts and try to look at it from the perspective of a non-customer.

It comes across as slightly frantic and desperate for attention and/or business.

Passion is all well and good but sometimes it is better to dial it back a bit and maintain a more professional demeanour.

It actually doesn't bother me personally though- I'm just looking at it objectively.

OilCityPickups

Nice to hear someone as upfront and forthright as yourself ... good on you ... and welcome to the forum.

TTony

digitalscream said:

Welcome, mate - we always like it when industry bods join in on here

As for the "not everybody's cup of tea" comment, I didn't read it as anything particularly negative - some people like the forthright, everything-out-in-the-open approach, some people don't and yet more really don't care one way or the other. Think of it as like Marmite, only less polarising

Ditto.  On both points.

I remember my money being refused when I tried to buy a guitar from Regent Guitars.  In hindsight, probably my fault as much as yours, but at the time it was a strange experience!  

(I'd made a detour on a business trip to be able to "drop in" when passing, having made sure that you had the guitar that I wanted in stock.  You had it, I tried it, I wanted it, and had the money to buy it, but you wouldn't sell it to me until it had been set-up, and that would take until tomorrow, by which time I'd be a couple of hundred miles away).

To be honest, I'd much prefer to deal with someone who is passionate (ie cares) about their business (whatever the business is), rather than someone who's just doing "a job".  

And that's probably true of most of us here - we get far more slagging-off comments about the don't-give-a-sh1t attitude of many sales staff in guitar shops, and far more "great service" comments about those people who, whilst being strongly opinionated, also genuinely care about what they do (Jeff @ World Guitars being the other example properly mentioned in this thread).

And welcome again

RichardsGuitars

digitalscream said:

RichardsGuitars said:

Hi.  Sorry to jump in on a conversation about me but I saw all this traffic coming into my site so just followed it back.  Apologies.

I know I am jumping into the fire for asking this but why am I not "everybodys cup of tea"?

Welcome, mate - we always like it when industry bods join in on here

As for the "not everybody's cup of tea" comment, I didn't read it as anything particularly negative - some people like the forthright, everything-out-in-the-open approach, some people don't and yet more really don't care one way or the other. Think of it as like Marmite, only less polarising

Thank you !!  Thats a really nice way of putting it!  Very diplomatic.  Look - I know my approach can really get up peoples noses but not because I am ever deliberately rude (unless people are rude to me ha ha).

Only about a week ago....

A guy brings in a Robert Cray Signature Model Strat.  He wanted me to pay him £500.

I thought, hmmm, signature model - maybe interesting so I told him to pop in.

On arrival he shows me this guitar - its a deep purpley blue finish.  Not a great start

Then I notice its mexican made....

Then I feel the big chunky neck....

Then I notice its a hard tail with no trem option.....

My first words "Hmmmm I am afraid its not the most popular colour option". 

He replies - "I love the colour - thats why I bought it!!"

Then I say.... "people generally like the 60s neck profile and this neck is very clubby"

He replies "I love the neck"

Anyway... I won't give you the whole story as its pretty obvious where it ended but the bottom line is he thought I was an opinionated little twirp - you could see it in his eyes!!!

The reality is (apart from being an opinionated little twirp) I was just trying to help him understand that selling it to me would be the worst course of action.  I would have had to pay a very low price and have it on my hands and wait for a buyer.  He could advertise it in the free ads and hopefully get someone to pay him a more realistic price.

Its one of those guitars that "somoene" will love - you just have to find them!

I just get really upset when I am trying to be honest and helpful but the other person thinks I have alternative motives. 

Ummmm..... am I rambling again!!! ha ha  ... oh yes....

I must admit I love marmite - maybe that is the problem!

digitalscream

RichardsGuitars said:

I must admit I love marmite - maybe that is the problem!

While I don't have answers for anything else on this thread, I'm 100% confident in the truth that is "Stop eating Marmite, and more people will like you".

RichardsGuitars

octatonic said:

If you want to know why you aren't some people's cup of tea then re-read some of your posts and try to look at it from the perspective of a non-customer.

It comes across as slightly frantic and desperate for attention and/or business.

Passion is all well and good but sometimes it is better to dial it back a bit and maintain a more professional demeanour.

It actually doesn't bother me personally though- I'm just looking at it objectively.

I will give you an answer - hand on heart the truth...

When I post on a forum whether it be just now, on my own forum or even when I am replying to a customer in any situation I NEVER think "is this politically correct", is this "the right thing to say" or "will this help me sell more" or "will I lose sales from this reply"

The reason being, and its very simple, the moment I do I am no better than any politician who I see on the TV every day saying what needs to be heard, what will gain them popularity, that will drive votes (or sales in my case).

It is immediately clear when you visit a website whether what you are reading is from the heart or simply marketing hype.

When I write, I write in real time - no deliberate direction or strategy and frankly of course I am going to write things that people may judge and read in a different context to what was / is intended but when you are on a public forum you cannot help but have a different effect on some that you will others.

I can say however that the proof is that overwelmingly for every 1 person who thinks I come across as desperate for business, frantic or whatever else you mentioned, there are maybe well.... certainly more than 1 (lol) who think "wow - someone who actally gives a damn!"

Thats why I sell guitars all over the World - it seems every Country has the same problem - finding someone who they can trust.

I sell 2 or 3 guitars a day and believe me - thats all the guitars I can manage on a one to one basis - The last thing in the World I need to do to generate sales is post on forums ( you may know I have my own) although I am very jelous this is a lot busier than mine... boo hoo....

Hope that helps answer your point but thank you and you are not the first to think what you have said.... unless it was you last time I heard it!! lol

RichardsGuitars

digitalscream said:

RichardsGuitars said:

I must admit I love marmite - maybe that is the problem!

While I don't have answers for anything else on this thread, I'm 100% confident in the truth that is "Stop eating Marmite, and more people will like you".

Appreciated!  Thanks again for the welcoming comments 

IanSavage

I like Richard already. 

I also like chubby-necked purple-ish hardtail Strats though.  

Fretwired

RichardsGuitars said:

JookyChap;6832" said:

I know Richard from Richard's Guitars in Stratford isn't everybody's cuppa, but he has been a big supporter of Gordon Smith - so this was sad to read..



Myself, I've only played a handful of their newer guitars and not been impressed compared to the old 'uns, but have never been sure whether it is fake nostalia or just that older wood sounds better etc.

Hi.  Sorry to jump in on a conversation about me but I saw all this traffic coming into my site so just followed it back.  Apologies.

I know I am jumping into the fire for asking this but why am I not "everybodys cup of tea"?  All I have ever done is be honest and have a passion for doing the right thing by anyone?  I turned a £6000 inheritance into a 1.5 million pound turnover when I was at Regent Guitars all on the back of doing the right thing by my customers.  I closed it down with a mental break at which point I declared myself bankrupt.

My reputation was so well regarded suppliers were quick to support me when I decided to return to the trade, focusing on purely one to one service selling ONLY brands I know I can trust to deliver benchmark quality.

So back to my question!  Why would people not like a person who is honest and always has the customers best interests at heart?

Just asking the question and sorry if it puts you on the spot!

Well I bought two Godin guitars from you when you ran Regent Guitars .. happy with the transaction and I still own them ... have a picture of one on my FaceBook page ... customer service pays big dividends in the long run ... ;-)

Antique_Guitars

I like threads like this.

Id really like to see a mid price range UK guitar manufacturer with great designs and good QC to start up.

Fretwired

Antique_Guitars said:

I like threads like this.

Id really like to see a mid price range UK guitar manufacturer with great designs and good QC to start up.

Not possible. Chappers had his guitar designed in the UK and made in the Far East to hit a price point. The likes of Fender and co can manufacture consistent guitars to a price point. If you go back to the days of MR there were two luthiers making guitars - one took forever to make anything, although the quality was good, and one took forever to make anything and effectively did a runner. The only way you can make guitars in the UK is to make high-end boutique guitars for £3K plus.

digitalscream

Antique_Guitars said:

I like threads like this.

Id really like to see a mid price range UK guitar manufacturer with great designs and good QC to start up.

Define "mid price"...? I'm pretty sure Wez does stuff in the £700-ish range (EDIT: don't quote me on that), and Jaden's got his £900 Series 2 guitars (which are awesome - one of those knocked my N4 off its "main guitar" spot).

Fretwired said:

The only way you can make guitars in the UK is to make high-end boutique guitars for £3K plus.

No way. As noted, Jaden has top-notch guitars at all prices from £900 up to £2500+ and everything in between.

Antique_Guitars

digitalscream said:

Antique_Guitars said:

I like threads like this.

Id really like to see a mid price range UK guitar manufacturer with great designs and good QC to start up.

Define "mid price"...? I'm pretty sure Wez does stuff in the £700-ish range (EDIT: don't quote me on that), and Jaden's got his £900 Series 2 guitars (which are awesome - one of those knocked my N4 off its "main guitar" spot).

Yeah around that price range but a larger output kinda thing

Fretwired

digitalscream said:

Antique_Guitars said:

I like threads like this.

Id really like to see a mid price range UK guitar manufacturer with great designs and good QC to start up.

Define "mid price"...? I'm pretty sure Wez does stuff in the £700-ish range (EDIT: don't quote me on that), and Jaden's got his £900 Series 2 guitars (which are awesome - one of those knocked my N4 off its "main guitar" spot).

Fretwired said:

The only way you can make guitars in the UK is to make high-end boutique guitars for £3K plus.

No way. As noted, Jaden has top-notch guitars at all prices from £900 up to £2500+ and everything in between.

Jaden makes less than 200 guitars a year and sells direct plus a few dealers like Andertons - it's small beer. He also designed the Chapman ML2 although that's been made in the far East. There are loads of micro businesses making guitars. Most of the guitars I've seen for sale are in the 2K price range.

octatonic

RichardsGuitars said:

octatonic said:

If you want to know why you aren't some people's cup of tea then re-read some of your posts and try to look at it from the perspective of a non-customer.

It comes across as slightly frantic and desperate for attention and/or business.

Passion is all well and good but sometimes it is better to dial it back a bit and maintain a more professional demeanour.

It actually doesn't bother me personally though- I'm just looking at it objectively.

I will give you an answer - hand on heart the truth...

When I post on a forum whether it be just now, on my own forum or even when I am replying to a customer in any situation I NEVER think "is this politically correct", is this "the right thing to say" or "will this help me sell more" or "will I lose sales from this reply"

The reason being, and its very simple, the moment I do I am no better than any politician who I see on the TV every day saying what needs to be heard, what will gain them popularity, that will drive votes (or sales in my case).

It is immediately clear when you visit a website whether what you are reading is from the heart or simply marketing hype.

When I write, I write in real time - no deliberate direction or strategy and frankly of course I am going to write things that people may judge and read in a different context to what was / is intended but when you are on a public forum you cannot help but have a different effect on some that you will others.

I can say however that the proof is that overwelmingly for every 1 person who thinks I come across as desperate for business, frantic or whatever else you mentioned, there are maybe well.... certainly more than 1 (lol) who think "wow - someone who actally gives a damn!"

Thats why I sell guitars all over the World - it seems every Country has the same problem - finding someone who they can trust.

I sell 2 or 3 guitars a day and believe me - thats all the guitars I can manage on a one to one basis - The last thing in the World I need to do to generate sales is post on forums ( you may know I have my own) although I am very jelous this is a lot busier than mine... boo hoo....

Hope that helps answer your point but thank you and you are not the first to think what you have said.... unless it was you last time I heard it!! lol

As I said, it doesn't personally bother me- but that is certainly how people take it.

I kinda find it refreshing.

digitalscream

Fretwired said:

Jaden makes less than 200 guitars a year and sells direct plus a few dealers like Andertons - it's small beer. He also designed the Chapman ML2 although that's been made in the far East. There are loads of micro businesses making guitars. Most of the guitars I've seen for sale are in the 2K price range.

Yes, that's true (except that he doesn't sell through Andertons, only through GuitarGuitar). However, it does prove that guitars made in the UK don't have to be "high-end boutique guitars for £3k plus" .

Fretwired

digitalscream said:

Fretwired said:

Jaden makes less than 200 guitars a year and sells direct plus a few dealers like Andertons - it's small beer. He also designed the Chapman ML2 although that's been made in the far East. There are loads of micro businesses making guitars. Most of the guitars I've seen for sale are in the 2K price range.

Yes, that's true (except that he doesn't sell through Andertons, only through GuitarGuitar). However, it does prove that guitars made in the UK don't have to be "high-end boutique guitars for £3k plus" .

Andertons have them for sale .. http://www.andertons.co.uk/News/aid567/jaden-rose-guitars-for-sale-at-andertons.asp .. unless they've stopped. I thought Jaden was involved with the Chapman guitars ..

digitalscream

Fretwired said:

Andertons have them for sale .. http://www.andertons.co.uk/News/aid567/jaden-rose-guitars-for-sale-at-andertons.asp .. unless they've stopped. I thought Jaden was involved with the Chapman guitars ..

That page is out of date:

http://www.andertons.co.uk/Products/Products.asp?keyword=jaden&type=search&attributeXML0=||||#1386629056743page-1

I can't comment on CG, though.

Panama_Jack666

@richardsguitars

If it means anything, I've been impressed at the way you've come across so far. I think it's great you're on here and giving people the opportunity to discuss your original blog post and allowing people the opportunity to ask questions.

I'm not in the market for a guitar now, but if I was, I would certainly consider paying you a visit! Regardless of if you're not everybody's cuppa, I respect your openness!

Welcome to The Fretboard!

All the best,