Muffroom Cloud will be changing its name as of 1 Sept.

fretmeister

Mkjackary said:

Citizens advice bureau combined with a few of the more legal-y types on here could draft a letter in response.
Combine that with a press release stating exactly what you have said here.

"Sadly ...... Because we have received.... From the owner of the big muff pi trademark.... Blah blah"

It could do nothing, it could make front page of guitar news websites.

-

Also is there any way we can send an email saying we are selling all of our ehx equipment and never going to purchase an ehx pedal again becuase of this, without getting you into trouble for defamation or something?

As well intentioned as this is, please please please do not follow this advice. (Ignoring that Citizens Advice can't help)

Cross boarder intellectual property disputes require an astonishing level of knowledge and experience of multiple jurisdictions and global enforcement.

I can think of less than a dozen firms that would be competent in this area and none of them will charge less than £350 + vat per hour for a mid level lawyer.

And EHX would issue the pleadings in New York where a nasty little state law makes it illegal for companies to represent themselves.ao you can't avoid using lawyers.

This is how Dimarzio got to Kinman pickups, and they had to change construction even though they probably would have won. They couldn't afford NYC legal fees.

This sort of thing isn't even taught at law school. You learn it at your magic circle firm if you get there.

fretmeister

Rowby1 said:

So I wonder if they've taken on JHS over the Muffuletta? Or are JHS and EHX in some way connected?

Thorpyfx told me that the muffuletta name is actually a sandwich from 100 years ago.

ThorpyFX

fretmeister said:

Mkjackary said:

Citizens advice bureau combined with a few of the more legal-y types on here could draft a letter in response.
Combine that with a press release stating exactly what you have said here.

"Sadly ...... Because we have received.... From the owner of the big muff pi trademark.... Blah blah"

It could do nothing, it could make front page of guitar news websites.

-

Also is there any way we can send an email saying we are selling all of our ehx equipment and never going to purchase an ehx pedal again becuase of this, without getting you into trouble for defamation or something?

As well intentioned as this is, please please please do not follow this advice. (Ignoring that Citizens Advice can't help)

Cross boarder intellectual property disputes require an astonishing level of knowledge and experience of multiple jurisdictions and global enforcement.

I can think of less than a dozen firms that would be competent in this area and none of them will charge less than £350 + vat per hour for a mid level lawyer.

And EHX would issue the pleadings in New York where a nasty little state law makes it illegal for companies to represent themselves.ao you can't avoid using lawyers.

This is how Dimarzio got to Kinman pickups, and they had to change construction even though they probably would have won. They couldn't afford NYC legal fees.

This sort of thing isn't even taught at law school. You learn it at your magic circle firm if you get there.

im good with avoiding the legal gumpf, my ex wife was a solicitor so I'm well aware of how much they screw people over! Aside from the hassle changing the name will bring, it will allow me to avoid lawyers and get on with building pedals. Picking your battles is a skill you learn in the forces, better to survive, gain strength and attack from a different angle.

fretmeister

BTW you owe me £300 for that advice.

Shark_Eyes

dindude said:

As for names, how about Fusilier but with a z (or two), Fuzzilier.

I really like this name, I think it's super clever.

Best of luck with the name change @ThorpyFX I hope it's no more than a minor inconvience.

ThorpyFX

fretmeister said:

BTW you owe me £300 for that advice.

Do you offer payment terms? I.e 1p a year

hubobulous

fretmeister said:

This sort of thing isn't even taught at law school. You learn it at your magic circle firm if you get there.

Magic Circle....they don't like that term being used!! 

I've worked  for a couple, albeit in a non-legal support function, but they don't earn millions for nothing do they?!!

Chalky

The FUffroom Cloud (with FU in larger type) or anything only a couple of letters different to Muffroom. That way the product will continue to be referred to as the "FUffroom Cloud formerly known as Muffroom Cloud" in formal descriptions and as the "FUffroom/Muffroom" wherever guitar pedals are discussed. EHX will have a hollow victory, which is the best outcome for you. The renaming will just give you more publicity because of the humourousness of a two letter change, something anyone will be happy explain in print.

Roland

This is all excellent news. You know you're having market impact when the competition reacts. You're in good company. broadcaster anyone? 

I like the Mushroom Cloud name.  It's got military connotations. It allows you to produce sticky labels to overprint FF with SH, making existing etchings reusable. It adds a nice little touch for follow on articles by Premier Guitar and by Guitar and Bass magazine. They can publicise your need to rename the product in the face of a legal challenge, and mention that you will send a free SH sticker to any existing pedal owners that contact you.

DefaultM

This piqued my interest in the pedal, so it's only a good thing really.
Came across that video where you were with Rob Chapman and Lee Anderton. That was quite cool, even if I can't stand them. Why didn't they let you change the settings though? It was doing my head in when he was turning every dial while the other was playing.

ThorpyFX

DefaultM said:

This piqued my interest in the pedal, so it's only a good thing really.
Came across that video where you were with Rob Chapman and Lee Anderton. That was quite cool, even if I can't stand them. Why didn't they let you change the settings though? It was doing my head in when he was turning every dial while the other was playing.

It was filmed quite quickly. And ultimately it's their video I guess. Have a look at some of the mother videos out there and you may be able to get a better appreciation of what it's about.

DefaultM

I was pretty distracted wondering what that thing on Rob Chapman's head was, but despite that I still thought they sounded awesome.
I use an axe fx 2 so generally don't like to buy pedals, but I'm already thinking about if I could gig with just these and a delay for my covers band.

Gassage

Hi, I'm Greek, and my family invented the langauge.

Can Mr EHX stop using the word Pi, which I patented to define 3.1419?

I'm sending you a note to σταματήσουν και να απέχουν.

Thanks.

koneguitarist

Mustapha Cloud!

TTony

Gassage said:

Can Mr EHX stop using the word Pi, which I patented to define 3.1419?

Well, that was silly, because the correct value is 3.14159 ...

Jalapeno

How's about The Big Merkin Gamma ? Bush Pie ?  Kush Pie ? Tush Pie ? etc

Dominic

CAB are not there for corporate / commercial purposes

Thorpy quite correct " the benefit of Law is for those that can afford it " - discretion is the better part of valour and has has made the correct commercial decision ............I think the pun is clever but it borrows from reference to EHX intellectual property - if the reference were co-incidental and Thorpy's product was unrelated ie a garden tool then there would be a better case to defend plagiarism.

  Thorpy, ......brilliant as your products are -you are a cottage industry in its fledgeling years -think out of the box - They have the name but you have the better product -they have the manufacturing, marketing,advertising and distribution network etc..........do a deal with them and get a strong capital base built faster

 You are ultimately splitting their market share tho'their product is to fuzz what Hoover is to Vacuum IE Synonamous

What is the fuzz market worth in turnover per annum - what is their market share of that turnover

Is it worth turning the tables and licensing your product to them on a lump sum up-front design fee and on-going Royalty basis 

In business a sad fact of this century is that you have to have functions not feelings and sometimes its more clever to say if you can't beat them ;join 'em

Mergers and Aquisitions take place every day in the commercial banking world -sometimes everyone 's a winner

 ALTERNATIVELY - get as much publicity as you can in the guitar press ie let them injunct to prove and publicise that they feel threatened by your product then rebrand it THE RUGMUNCHER  ie it eats muffs..............only my opinion

timhulio

EHX sent me the same email in October, but it referred to the 'characterization of the product' infringing the trademark, as contrarily my muff variant doesn't actually have its name on it anywhere. So all I had to do was remove the phrase 'Big Muff' from the website text.

I can't see why 'Muffroom' would be a problem though. It is, like you say, a made-up word. There goes my super-woolly tubescreamer clone the Dumbledoor ;-)

underdog

sticker;993051" said:

The Legal Minefield !

Winner

viz

Big enough pie.