Best head

ThePrettyDamned

I am not being weird, but your feature set is near impossible. You could maybe get an mjw custom that ticks the boxes? However, valves amps tend not to be modelling. So you'll probably get either USA sounds or Brit sounds. I seriously think that a yamaha thr 10 or blackstar ID core 20 would do you really nicely for home. An id 15 may even do it. Then, those couple of hundred (tops) quid gone, you can focus on the gigging amp and backup. Backup is relatively easy these days - there are a glut of emulated pedals (from joyo to tech 21 to amt). I reckon the blackstar ht dual would do it - emulated out, clean and dirty channels, works really well indeed. They're brilliant bits of kit for a tight situation. Then it's the amp - focus on getting what you need. You're probably not going to get millions of features, and if you do, I find there is compromise on the sound in many cases. You like using a pedal for your distortion and like sparkling cleans. Sparkling cleans is, to me, a high headroom Vox ac amp (but they can be fussy buggers with pedals - you love your riot so definitely try before buy), a fender head (you'd maybe need to go boutique if you wanted a smaller one but the Victory v40 looks ideal) and lastly, Marshall plexi (ultimate pedal platform in my opinion, again, asking mjw or jpf amps could yield a good result for size and features). If you're a slash fan, I'd opt for a vox or (most likely) a Marshall as a clean platform. If the Marshall amp had two channels (most will anyway) it means you'll have a redundancy on your distortion pedal. The blackstar ht dual is your amp back up full stop. Throw in a hand full of el34s or el84s and 12ax7s and you'll have an impressive, beautiful sounding gigging set up. It can be tempting to spend tons and tons of money on a branded boutique amp but remember there are builders closer to home who don't need to cover importing expenses. The mjw orion is a ground up custom build, and I know he does smaller head formats. The bantam is nearly the perfect single channel head for you, but just lacks in headroom.

ThePrettyDamned

Balls, the formatting from the phone vanished. Apologies!

ICBM

thomasross20 said:

By the way if I have a 2x12 cab with two 16 ohm connections, that's 8 ohms in parallel. But if I want to run it in stereo, as such, I need two 16 ohm outputs from whatever head I want to buy? EDIT - what an idiot - I'd either need two 16 ohm outs... or take a single 8 ohm out and split into the two 16 ohm inputs, right? Is that what people generally do? Mind I've never done this!

You can't run stereo from a single head unless it is a stereo head (eg Line 6 Spider 150W). If it's a mono head you just need one cable unless the cab is wired purely for stereo with no mono input option (rare).

jaytmon said:

What about a Bogner Atma head? 18w, small, 3 channel, reverb, fx loop, very versatile by the looks of things. GuitarGuitar stock them I believe. Worth a look for sure.

Think they look and sound awesome but reckon I'd need more than 18W?

Maybe. It's probably about at the limit, but from what I've heard you don't play as loud as you may think you do.

In pure volume terms I can get away with 15W through one 12" speaker for most bands I've been in - I've used several amps in that range. I just happen to prefer the big sound of more power than that.

thomasross20

Blackstar HT Dual as backup sounds PERFECT. I think a few folk have mentioned that to me previously but I forgot. Does that have to be the last pedal in the chain (if I want to use my other pedals, too)? Good post, by the way!

So if I were (just as an example) to get a Victory V30... that has one 16 ohm output and two 8 ohm outputs. To wire that up to a 2x12 with two 16 ohm connectors, I'd get one cable running from one of those 8 ohm outputs that splits into two connectors, one for each of the 16ohm cab inputs, and I'd be running in mono? Since the V30 has two 8 phm outs, does that mean it can run in stereo, but it wouldn't be a match for a cab with two 16 ohm inputs? Just checking! (And I guess I need to check if the Victory amps, Mesa etc I've been looking at are stereo and whether that really matters).

http://www.mesaboogie.com/media/Amplitudes/2013/June/Speaker Impedance Matching and Hookup.pdf
Looks like I'd need a parallel box.

ICBM

thomasross20 said:

So if I were (just as an example) to get a Victory V30... that has one 16 ohm output and two 8 ohm outputs. To wire that up to a 2x12 with two 16 ohm connectors, I'd get one cable running from one of those 8 ohm outputs that splits into two connectors, one for each of the 16ohm cab inputs, and I'd be running in mono? Since the V30 has two 8 phm outs, does that mean it can run in stereo, but it wouldn't be a match for a cab with two 16 ohm inputs? Just checking! (And I guess I need to check if the Victory amps, Mesa etc I've been looking at are stereo and whether that really matters).

No valve amps are stereo apart from rarities like a couple of Rivera models made in the 80s.

Unless the cab has no mono input option on either of the jacks, you just connect one cable from the 8-ohm jack on the amp to the mono 8-ohm jack on the cab.

Beexter

Mesa Express 5 25+ sounds like it would fit the bill. I recently picked one up from Wazmeister and it's a really flexible, good sounding, compact and lightweight head.
Definitely worth checking out.

digitalscream

For what it's worth, the word from Jet City themselves is that you can plug & play pre-amp *and* power amp valves in the Jet City JCA22H. I thought it was fixed-bias, but I've tried it myself and gigged many times without any issues.

And, as I said in PMs, they do sound great with the NL212 cab

thomasross20

Thanks ICBM

Guys... why don't we all just buy a bogner atma or similar and plug straight into the PA? Does that sound balls compared to a head and can solution? Even less gear to carry around!

ThePrettyDamned

thomasross20 said:

Thanks ICBM

Guys... why don't we all just buy a bigger atma or similar and plug straight into the PA? Does that sound balls compared to a head and can solution? Even less gear to carry around!

You'd need cab emulation - look at a two notes torpedo? 

But seriously, a 1x12 cab with a creamback will not be heavy. And it's smaller than a combo so more easily maneuverable - same for a lot of heavier heads that are smaller. The sheer size is more of a problem than weight. 

A jet city custom 22 or jca22h may look bigger but if you can't move them and a 1x12 you should hire someone to carry your guitar, too  

The blackstar ht dual doesn't need to be in your chain at all. It's a backup - though you may prefer the tone to the Suhr Riot (I do). So you may replace the riot. But if you want to use it to DI into the desk, it would go last in the chain then connect the emulated out to the desk. 

It does need it's own power supply, but it does sound extremely good. I'd not bother with it on my board unless you have a big enough PSU to handle it. I'd use the riot, then if the amp does go, plug the pedal board into the ht dual. 

I hope that makes sense! I still think a single channel or dual channel Marshall style amp would do. I tried an atma and didn't think much of it - it had good sounds, but nothing outstanding. There are lots of amp builders who will build a 50 watt plexi with power scaling or master volume into a small-medium size head cabinet, and even if it's heavy it'll be very easy to move around. And it won't be *that* heavy anyway. 

RaymondLin

 

I really think you need to stop trying to find an All-In-One solution because they will be compromised in some ways.  Very few amps have everything and then the sound in your head.  Start with the sound first, then pick the one with the closest feature set.

 

Your backup can be something basic, that's the point of the backup, it could even be a simple 2 channel amp, one clean, one crunch, pedal for Solo.  Job done.  Don't even need a loop, at desperate times, just stick the delay after the boost/OD pedal and work through your set. 

 

The Atma might fit your bill but a part of me thinks you might not like it (not because of sound wise), but because there are some quirks, quirks like the footswitch is backwards.  What you think is on is actually off and the clean channel lacks 2 band EQ that the gain channel has and the amp is also a little picky about speakers.  (the best matching cab it’s the G12h30 offering but its £625).  Although 18W ought to be loud enough, especially running through an efficient speaker.

 

thomasross20

Right now the one that's standing out for me is the victory v30 ... unfortunately I'm at work so will have to come back to all this later 

DLM

Tigger, you're going to have to make compromises somewhere with this quest. How about a two-amp set up, one for cleans, one for drive? That would also give you redundancy for the event of a gear failure. Loads of small amps out there that are good at different things, but won't do everything, so pick two specialists rather than one compromise. Someone will talk you through the kit you'll need for switching. Or bite the bullet and go Fractal/Kemper. You need only dig as deep into the settings as you like. And you can keep your live rig light and use it at home because it will be quiet and small. Look at all the pros who do this.

RaymondLin said:

My friend had the same problem, his only amp so far is his blackstar HT5R and that was bought during his uni days and although it has done him well he was looking for something better and something new. He likes his heavier stuff and always liked Mesa amps so he only gone out and ordered a JP-2C with a 2x12 verticals cab to go with it!

http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/5db134cf8b4c44fc8330c8a490661fa5/thats-the-way-to-do-it-a-life-sized-alternative-version-of-punch-and-cf2r1g.jpg

RaymondLin said:

 Although on the guitar end he has lots of room for improvement, he has the opposite problem to you Tom, he is rocking some £500 ibenez, but he has my PRE 305 on loan also.

Oi, an original Japanese RG is well under £500, including upgraded pickups. If that's not good enough for metal, you are doing everything wrong!

DLM

ICBM said:

No valve amps are stereo apart from rarities like a couple of Rivera models made in the 80s.

[Fanboi mode on] Yoohoo!

http://www.diezel.ch/de/products/images/VH4s_big.jpg

MFW correcting @ICBM

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/29600913.jpg

ICBM

thomasross20 said:

Guys... why don't we all just buy a bogner atma or similar and plug straight into the PA? Does that sound balls compared to a head and can solution? Even less gear to carry around!

Because you will still need a load box and speaker emulator, and you will be at the mercy of monitors to hear yourself - which never sounds as 'right' to me, and can also have issues if you use controlled feedback - and for the rest of the band to hear you.

It *can* work well, but generally the smaller the gig, the smaller the PA and monitoring and the less likely you are to have a proper soundman on hand, the worse it will be.

I've often done open-mic duo gigs with a Mesa V-Twin plugged into the PA and no amp on stage, but it's not hard to hear yourself when there's only a vocalist apart from the guitar. The tone on stage has often been of the "lets just pray it doesn't sound as shit as this out front" type as well...

jaytmon

DLM said:

Tigger, you're going to have to make compromises somewhere with this quest.

This is unfortunately too true. I remember years ago looking to upgrade my Laney LC50. All I knew was that I didn't want a Fender amp. That and I wanted two channels. Preconceptions. I tried a load of different amps and was finally persuaded to try a DRRI. I found I couldn't stop playing it. Some sort of magic happened and I lost myself in the incredible sound coming from, of all things, a single channel Fender! I had to buy it even though it was about £200 over budget. 

What I guess I'm saying is try anything and go with what makes you want to play more. Get something with an awesome base sound and spend the next year buying, trading and selling dirt (and other) pedals Or like @DLM suggested, run two amps! 

One more thing, I think it was Eckhart Tollé who said, "The mind wants to want, more than it wants to have..." GAS anyone?! 

Best of luck mate

Nerine

It does seem a little bit like the only way you are going to be totally satisfied is spending the coin unfortunately. There always does seem to be a compromise somewhere along the line with most amps. I know I mentioned it before, but the only amp I've found that isn't compromised in any way (for my application and what I want an amp to do) is the Two Rock I have. The other is a JCM 800 reissue. But it is large and heavy and I rarely play out with a head and cab any more. 1x12 combos are a new thing to me in a lot of ways. I never used to like them. But there's something heroic and voodoo about a small, light box filling the room with tone and cutting through a dense band mix whilst handling every style of music and generally being very flexible. I think what you're after is achievable, but I would be looking at a 1x12 cab and small footprint head. For the cab, I'd go no further than a Bogner Cube, which can be had used (mint) for like £300 or so. For the head, it gets trickier...

thomasross20

Bogner Cube - 18kg... I've just bought a Matrix NL212 which weighs 13kg. Hoping it sounds good. A LIGHT combo? I though the Blackstar I have was meant to be light. Small and light, that's the way for me, even if it compromises on "tone"

thomasross20

There are two things I'm not going to compromise on. 
Size and weight. Has to be Victory / Mark V:25 type size and weight.

Jesus... I considered the relatively inexpensive Blackstar ID:100 head head (could keep my footswitch) but it's bloody massive!! Why so big, Blackstar!?

ennspek

The Yamaha THR100 really is the answer.

digitalscream

ennspek said:

The Yamaha THR100 really is the answer.

I have to say...I would concur that it's an answer. The one I tried certainly sounded good, although there was a weird overtone thing going on that never got diagnosed (I was testing it for a mate up the road) and I'm not 100% convinced that it'd be good for metal using the onboard gain.