EU Referendum Vote - Poll

ICBM

Garthy said:

Many soundbites can be deconstructed by pedantic twats.

Nice.

Your snappy slogan is wrong, because whoever wrote it didn't bother to check a basic fact about the EU, which seems typical of the Leave campaign - although that does probably make it an appropriate slogan for it, as does continuing to use it after being told it's wrong.

Both sides are almost as bad though, I'll give you that.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36401744

We need informed, accurate, even pedantic, facts about what staying in or leaving the EU means - not idiotic soundbites.

I see someone has posted that on the poll now too... brilliant.

It also sounds like it was nicked from Chicken Run.

chillidoggy

Narrow lead for 'Out' at the moment.

I wonder whether Cameron and Boris will be monitoring the FB vote?

thecolourbox

Emp_Fab;1088368" said:

The EU is run by unelected officials.  Remaining in the EU means we are obliged to comply with a lot of legislation that originates from that organisation, run by unelected officials.  You have no say in who they are or what they decide.  That's not democratic.

A bit like our own government then, what with the house of Lords and with more people not voting for the party in power than did vote for them

Emp_Fab

Oh, absolutely !  However, at least our lot try to give us the impression we live in a democracy.  In the Govt's defence (and that's not a phrase you'll hear from me often !), they did give the public the opportunity to get a foot in the door of PR several years ago, and the majority of the electorate said "NO ! - We don't want anything that is closer to representing our real wishes, we want the current system where we all vote for one party and a different one gets in".

I sometimes wonder whether, given how demonstrably thick the majority of people are, it's really a good idea to conduct referenda on issues more complex than 'cake or death'.

Emp_Fab

P.S.

Emp_Fab said:

How are you guys grabbing the poll image ?  I wanted to post the latest state but it's not actually an image on the page.

ICBM

To be fair to the electorate, the government did rig the PR referendum too, by not making it about PR.

We were given the choice of the bad system we have or a slightly worse one, so it's not entirely right to blame the voters for the result.

Chalky

Talked to many people about this and the overwhelming Remain vote is from people who do not like change and think that "Remain = Nothing Whatsoever In My Life Will Change!"

ICBM

And the overwhelming Leave vote seems to be from people who think that unpredictable change will automatically be better, because Europe is foreigners telling us what to do.

There are valid arguments both ways, but probably at least three quarters of people will vote without understanding any of them... since that's what happens in elections.

chillidoggy

Emp_Fab said:

P.S.

Emp_Fab said:

How are you guys grabbing the poll image ?  I wanted to post the latest state but it's not actually an image on the page.

Click on the link, and the one the says 'view'.

Derrr.

Chalky

ICBM;1088693" said:

And the overwhelming Leave vote seems to be from people who think that unpredictable change will automatically be better, because Europe is foreigners telling us what to do.

There are valid arguments both ways, but probably at least three quarters of people will vote without understanding any of them... since that's what happens in elections.

Agreed. People don't like complexity and will vote by their gut feel. If they vote at all...

eSully

Latest poll results

Emp_Fab said:

P.S.

Emp_Fab said:

How are you guys grabbing the poll image ?  I wanted to post the latest state but it's not actually an image on the page.

- Print screen, crop, upload to imgur

Sambostar

Drew_fx said:

karltone said:

I don't think there is a possibility to reform the EU. The EU has been on a road which was always the same road virtually since its inception, it may of had a few minor diversions, but its still on the same road. The choice is whether you want to go to the that destination or to change path and go in a different direction. 

This is kinda where my head is at too.

And fundamentally, the arguments all flying around are so impenetrable to me, that all I have are the raw principles... and the EU is not a democratic institution, therefore I am swayed by the Leave camp for that reason alone.

Agree too, I'm pro Europe and pro European people.  I am anti EU though.

eSully

Sambostar said:

Drew_fx said:

karltone said:

I don't think there is a possibility to reform the EU. The EU has been on a road which was always the same road virtually since its inception, it may of had a few minor diversions, but its still on the same road. The choice is whether you want to go to the that destination or to change path and go in a different direction. 

This is kinda where my head is at too.

And fundamentally, the arguments all flying around are so impenetrable to me, that all I have are the raw principles... and the EU is not a democratic institution, therefore I am swayed by the Leave camp for that reason alone.

Agree too, I'm pro Europe and pro European people.  I am anti EU though.

For me, one of the most disappointing aspects of the Remain campaign and some of the media coverage is the seedy undercurrent of insinuating people wanting to leave the EU as racist/bigot/little Englanders (insert stereotype as appropriate) - One of the worst examples of this was that shocking Saatchi and Saatchi 'Black vote' poster with the thug pointing at the Asian woman. I'm pro Europe, I'm pro European trade agreements but there's plenty of good arguments for leave that are worth considering and completely valid.

Sambostar

It's the same treatment as if you ever voted UKIP, want independent and accountable politicians and a Parliament that has to work for a living and is democratic you are called a racist.  Like I said I am pro Europe, but we'll never get there by negotiating whilst staying within the EU.  Everyday we lose another part of our democratic freedom and our spineless politicians get weaker.

Bidley

Yeah, if you could stop branding EU sceptics as dumb racists...

https://ineedcoffee.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/office-space-coffee1.jpg

That'd be great.

Fortheloveofguitar

Those who think that we can reform from within are blind

Merkel has her own agenda. She calls the shots and has the final say in everything that the EU passes

She trampled all over Cameron and his so called demands. The U.K looks pretty pathetic and weak right now

chillidoggy

eSully said:

Sambostar said:

Drew_fx said:

karltone said:

I don't think there is a possibility to reform the EU. The EU has been on a road which was always the same road virtually since its inception, it may of had a few minor diversions, but its still on the same road. The choice is whether you want to go to the that destination or to change path and go in a different direction. 

This is kinda where my head is at too.

And fundamentally, the arguments all flying around are so impenetrable to me, that all I have are the raw principles... and the EU is not a democratic institution, therefore I am swayed by the Leave camp for that reason alone.

Agree too, I'm pro Europe and pro European people.  I am anti EU though.

For me, one of the most disappointing aspects of the Remain campaign and some of the media coverage is the seedy undercurrent of insinuating people wanting to leave the EU as racist/bigot/little Englanders (insert stereotype as appropriate) - One of the worst examples of this was that shocking Saatchi and Saatchi 'Black vote' poster with the thug pointing at the Asian woman. I'm pro Europe, I'm pro European trade agreements but there's plenty of good arguments for leave that are worth considering and completely valid.

Where Saatchi and Saatchi went wrong was in not placing a suicide bomber on the other end of the see-saw.

thecolourbox

Fortheloveofguitar;1088781" said:

Those who think that we can reform from within are blind

Merkel has her own agenda. She calls the shots and has the final say in everything that the EU passes

She trampled all over Cameron and his so called demands. The U.K looks pretty pathetic and weak right now

That suggests we need a less shit leader to me more than anything

Fortheloveofguitar

thecolourbox;1088888" said:

[quote="Fortheloveofguitar;1088781"]Those who think that we can reform from within are blind

Merkel has her own agenda. She calls the shots and has the final say in everything that the EU passes

She trampled all over Cameron and his so called demands. The U.K looks pretty pathetic and weak right now

That suggests we need a less shit leader to me more than anything[/quote]


Possibly yes but Merkel won't allow anyone to sway her from her agenda

There's nothing that will stop her even if we leave

At least we will be out of it and leave the rest to crumble in what is already a sinking ship

Ro_S

The poll link won't work for me.

I vote LEAVE.