A black Henry VIII

axisus

I think it's all utterly dumb and stupid.

What were we talking about again?

WezV

But why jump straight to Idris Elba.

How about you start with actors that are not far away physically. I am going with Uncle Phil from Fresh Prince.

Next maybe we go for the ones who are not an obvious fit, but through costume and skill could pull it off. Hmm.. Forest Whittaker perhaps?

Then maybe I need someone who can do terrible accents for some reason. Maybe we ask Idris if he can actually do British

Chalky

Because Idris is an easy example of a typecast actor :P

I also know that folks who do Casting get irritated by the 'anyone can do it' attitude

Sambostar

It does piss me off to be honest when I see so many brown haired girls dying their hair ginger.  I think it ought to be licenced or something.

And how much fake tan can a ginger apply before they are accused of racism?

It's a fine line eh.

octatonic

http://www.slightlyqualified.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/ginger4.jpg

Fretwired

Chalky said:

Audience suspension of disbelief begins with Casting. Some actors are chameleons. Character actors who easily and believably slip between key roles in disparate productions, film and tv. But many if not most actors are not like that. H8 is difficult precisely because you need a strong male lead portraying weaknesses not normally associated with those types of actors. Which is why we tend to do them better than Hollywood.

^^

This.

WezV

Chalky;1096894" said:

Because Idris is an easy example of a typecast actor :P

I also know that folks who do Casting get irritated by the 'anyone can do it' attitude

I did not realise idris had frequently played fat British kings. Learn something new everyday!!

Your second comment is a bit odd considering my theoretical casting was a response to your theoretical casting???

Plus I do realise Phil Avery is dead. makes him perfect for the role because so is Henry

WezV

Sambostar;1096895" said:

It does piss me off to be honest when I see so many brown haired girls dying their hair ginger.  I think it ought to be licenced or something.And how much fake tan can a ginger apply before they are accused of racism?It's a fine line eh.

You definitely don't want to want to watch Cloud Atlas. Korean Gingers!!!

Sambostar

WezV said:

Sambostar;1096895" said:

It does piss me off to be honest when I see so many brown haired girls dying their hair ginger.  I think it ought to be licenced or something.And how much fake tan can a ginger apply before they are accused of racism?It's a fine line eh.

You definitely don't want to want to watch Cloud Atlas. Korean Gingers!!!

And I am supposed to be tolerant of this, yet dressing up as a Gollywog Minstrel is banned?

There are some serious double standards at play here.  I'd wager there are more 'Black' (Whatever that means) people in the UK than there are people with natural born ginger hair.

Sambostar

Last time I checked sellotaping your eyes up and wearing a conical straw hat was banned too.

axisus

Sambostar said:

Last time I checked sellotaping your eyes up and wearing a conical straw hat was banned too.

Axisus backs up quietly before anyone notices, cursing the Prince Phillip book of international etiquette ....

Chalky

WezV;1096938" said:

[quote="Chalky;1096894"]Because Idris is an easy example of a typecast actor :P

I also know that folks who do Casting get irritated by the 'anyone can do it' attitude

I did not realise idris had frequently played fat British kings. Learn something new everyday!!

Your second comment is a bit odd considering my theoretical casting was a response to your theoretical casting???

Plus I do realise Phil Avery is dead. makes him perfect for the role because so is Henry [/quote]

Apologies - my comment was ambiguous so let me rephrase -

Folks who do Casting get irritated by the 'any actor can do it' attitude. Very much like musical directors get irritated by the 'any sad music will do for the death scene' attitude. Very much like second unit directors get irritated by the 'any shot of the bad guy falling off the building will do'.

Bit like telling you 'any bit of wood and any oil finish will do for the body'. It is deskilling and undermines the importance and contribution of that aspect in the finished product.

Twats will still think their 'off the wall' input is better...

10thumbs

I believe that if an actor is portraying a character who actually existed , they should be the race and gender of the original.

Would people be happy with Gwyneth Paltrow playing Mohammed Ali in a new biopic , or Abraham Lincoln portrayed as a raving Hispanic queen ?

But also as described in books , so no , I don`t want a chinese Robin Hood , a female  Sherlock Holmes , a male Cleopatra,

 or a black or femaleJames Bond.

Maybe its just me ,but It just smacks of pandering to artistic types and so called,"minorities"

Open season on Dr Who though. 

WezV

Chalky said:

WezV;1096938" said:

[quote="Chalky;1096894"]Because Idris is an easy example of a typecast actor :P

I also know that folks who do Casting get irritated by the 'anyone can do it' attitude

I did not realise idris had frequently played fat British kings. Learn something new everyday!!

Your second comment is a bit odd considering my theoretical casting was a response to your theoretical casting???

Plus I do realise Phil Avery is dead. makes him perfect for the role because so is Henry [/quote]

Apologies - my comment was ambiguous so let me rephrase -

Folks who do Casting get irritated by the 'any actor can do it' attitude. Very much like musical directors get irritated by the 'any sad music will do for the death scene' attitude. Very much like second unit directors get irritated by the 'any shot of the bad guy falling off the building will do'.

Bit like telling you 'any bit of wood and any oil finish will do for the body'. It is deskilling and undermines the importance and contribution of that aspect in the finished product.

Twats will still think their 'off the wall' input is better...

as long as you are calling yourself a twat as well as me I think  we can agree casting is best left to those who have some experience doing it     I am assuming neither of us do casting professionally and could claim to be qualified in this area?   

on the bit of wood and oil analogy - I do believe almost any wood and any oil will do.... but they will all take a different method and amount of labour to make them successful.  The skill comes from understanding the different methods  and materials and choosing the appropriate one .... but that is a whole different debate!!

seany65

But watch the sh*t hit the fan if there was a white actor in the lead role of Cetshwayo in a play about the rise of the zulu nation.

UnclePsychosis

What is learned so far from this discussion is that sambostar is willing to do his best to ruin every thread going.

Back on topic, I don't have a problem with it so long as it's done for acting/stylistic reasons. I'm not so down with changing genders simply because you then have to reframe lots of relationships.

Henry VIII being white is fairly irrelevant to his "story", so having a black actor playing him is fine with me. Similarly, Nelson Mandela being Black *is* important to his life so having a white actor playing him would be silly.

Dr Who can do whatever they want and so long as James Bond is cool, badass, and British I don't care what colour he is. I tend to think that Bonds gender is an integral part of the character though so don't think I'd be all that supportive of a Jane Bond.

Clarky

I think the actor chosen should be all about who has the best most convincing fit for the role

especially if it has historical significance

it'd be all wrong if Optimus Prime was cast as a girl

Chalky

Clarky;1099265" said:

I think the actor chosen should be all about who has the best most convincing fit for the roleespecially if it has historical significance

it'd be all wrong if Optimus Prime was cast as a girl

The key phrase is 'most convincing'. But its also weasel-wording. Two main problems:

To convince an audience requires not only an actor to deliver with conviction but also an audience to suspend disbelief and accept that conviction. Casting is as much about understanding audience acceptance.

Convincing in which ways? For example, it is no good being utterly convincing as the evil bad guy if there is nothing in the actor's portrayal that is either redemptive or attractive. The audience will not engage.

quarky

UnclePsychosis said:

Henry VIII being white is fairly irrelevant to his "story", so having a black actor playing him is fine with me. Similarly, Nelson Mandela being Black *is* important to his life so having a white actor playing him would be silly.

Great post, and I think you summed up my thoughts pretty well.

+1 wis.

ICBM

Chalky said:

Convincing in which ways? For example, it is no good being utterly convincing as the evil bad guy if there is nothing in the actor's portrayal that is either redemptive or attractive. The audience will not engage.

I don't agree. Ralph Fiennes was brilliantly convincing as Amon Göth in Schindler's List - a historical character with no redeeming or attractive characteristics at all.

Likewise Bruno Ganz as Hitler in Downfall - and he portrayed him as as much of a human being as he possibly could rather than a pure monster. He came unsettlingly close to making him a sympathetic character in some ways, but he still couldn't really… because Hitler wasn't.