A black Henry VIII

Chalky

You're talking about the characters. I was talking about the audience. If the portayal is neither redemptive (I want to see how evil is beaten, how he gets his comeuppance) nor attractive (I want to see more of this character and what he will do) to the audience, then they won't engage.

ICBM

Chalky said:

You're talking about the characters. I was talking about the audience. If the portayal is neither redemptive (I want to see how evil is beaten, how he gets his comeuppance) nor attractive (I want to see more of this character and what he will do) to the audience, then they won't engage.

Both those examples I gave the audience engages with - Ganz's Hitler in particular. I've heard a lot of people say that the most disturbing thing about that film is how you almost sympathise with Hitler. His portrayal isn't redemptive or attractive - Hitler comes across as a domineering monster who will destroy everyone around him - but it's absolutely compelling to watch.

It takes a great actor to do that.

I'd also argue the case for Johnny Depp in Sweeney Todd - easily his best performance, exactly because he makes no attempt to soften the character but you still end up sympathising with him.

BigLicks67

I don't think it matters one way or the other, the idea is to suspend belief and if the actor playing the part is good you will do.

Clarky

Chalky said:

Clarky;1099265" said:

I think the actor chosen should be all about who has the best most convincing fit for the roleespecially if it has historical significance

it'd be all wrong if Optimus Prime was cast as a girl

The key phrase is 'most convincing'. But its also weasel-wording. Two main problems:

To convince an audience requires not only an actor to deliver with conviction but also an audience to suspend disbelief and accept that conviction. Casting is as much about understanding audience acceptance.

Convincing in which ways? For example, it is no good being utterly convincing as the evil bad guy if there is nothing in the actor's portrayal that is either redemptive or attractive. The audience will not engage.

I doubt I'd be quite so convinced of the super evilness of Darth Vader if he had the voice of Paul Gascoine

lloyd

Some people losing it over a black Hermoine in the stage Harry Poter, here's a pretty clear cut case of it not being important.

Fictional, literary character.

ICBM

Clarky said:

I doubt I'd be quite so convinced of the super evilness of Darth Vader if he had the voice of Paul Gascoine

Or David Prowse, for that matter...

quarky

lloyd said:

Some people losing it over a black Hermoine in the stage Harry Poter, here's a pretty clear cut case of it not being important.

Fictional, literary character.

Are they right or wrong though?

Chalky

ICBM;1099702" said:

Chalky said:

You're talking about the characters. I was talking about the audience. If the portayal is neither redemptive (I want to see how evil is beaten, how he gets his comeuppance) nor attractive (I want to see more of this character and what he will do) to the audience, then they won't engage.





Both those examples I gave the audience engages with - Ganz's Hitler in particular. I've heard a lot of people say that the most disturbing thing about that film is how you almost sympathise with Hitler. His portrayal isn't redemptive or attractive - Hitler comes across as a domineering monster who will destroy everyone around him - but it's absolutely compelling to watch.

It takes a great actor to do that.

I'd also argue the case for Johnny Depp in Sweeney Todd - easily his best performance, exactly because he makes no attempt to soften the character but you still end up sympathising with him.

But Ganz portrayal IS attractive - the audience wants to see more of this character and what he will do.

ICBM

I'm not sure you'd call that "attractive".

Sporky

Clarky said:

I doubt I'd be quite so convinced of the super evilness of Darth Vader if he had the voice of Paul Gascoine

Joe Pasquale?

Chalky

ICBM;1099965" said:

I'm not sure you'd call that "attractive".

Attractive is not limited to likeable. The popularity of crime drama, true crime and other documentaries of violence, even the kill scenes in wildlife programmes, all rely on being attractive in a non-likeable way.

Clarky

ICBM said:

Clarky said:

I doubt I'd be quite so convinced of the super evilness of Darth Vader if he had the voice of Paul Gascoine

Or David Prowse, for that matter…

good spot…. wis awarded

Clarky

Sporky said:

Clarky said:

I doubt I'd be quite so convinced of the super evilness of Darth Vader if he had the voice of Paul Gascoine

Joe Pasquale?

that I'd love to see… lmao

Fretwired

lloyd said:

Some people losing it over a black Hermoine in the stage Harry Poter, here's a pretty clear cut case of it not being important.

Fictional, literary character.

Read the books .. her background and colour were never revealed. The film directors cast a white actor but the author never specified her colour or ethnicity. And besides, it's a stage play - open to artistic interpretation. All the actors could be black.

TheBlueWolf

Fretwired;1100292" said:

lloyd said:

Some people losing it over a black Hermoine in the stage Harry Poter, here's a pretty clear cut case of it not being important.



Fictional, literary character.





Read the books .. her background and colour were never revealed. The film directors cast a white actor but the author never specified her colour or ethnicity. And besides, it's a stage play - open to artistic interpretation. All the actors could be black.

Fretwired beat me to it

It doesn't bother me at all that Hermione was given to a black actress for the stage play and as Fret said her ethnicity was never divulged.

While I agree with the actor or actress cast having to portray a character well enough to convince the audience for a couple of hours I'm not in favour of just any old actor being given a part of a real life figure simply because they happen to be a better actor for reasons already mentioned

Drew_TNBD

In the upcoming Dark Tower movie, Roland Deschain will be played by Idris Elba.

What they're gonna do with the whole split-personality-racist Detta Holmes who ends up falling in love with a white Roland Deschain despite her best wishes, is anyone's game.

This stuff isn't really clear cut.

lloyd

quarky said:

lloyd said:

Some people losing it over a black Hermoine in the stage Harry Poter, here's a pretty clear cut case of it not being important.

Fictional, literary character.

Are they right or wrong though?

Who? The casters or the people moaning about it?

I think that's pretty clear in my post no?

quarky

Yep, your opinion is pretty clear, but I guess it was a general question. A lot of people obviously felt that it was wrong to cast a black Hermione, just as they would about HVIII. I know there posts here saying that it is different because Hermione is fictional and is not described as being black/white or whatever, but to my it shouldn't really matter in either case.