EU 'demands' we start exit procedures NOW

quarky

We started exit procedures when we decided not to adopt the Euro. This is just a continuation along that path of the EU going one direction (ever closer union and a superstate run from Brussels), and us going another (devolved power decided by the people who will be affected by it, and a view that looks out towards the world. not an insular European centric view).

Change is difficult, and the EU is a comfort blanket, but we have been going in different directions for a long time.

quarky

Myranda said:

What needs to happen is someone has to say what will happen to the people who are here already - and make it law, so that they're either safe, or know they have to leave and have a time-line for doing so.

And a law to say that people with ginger hair ( @sambostar ) won't be evicted? No one in any position of power has said anyone from either group will be evicted so why would we need a law saying that? That would be crazy irrational scare-mongering.

Fretwired

quarky said:

We started exit procedures when we decided not to adopt the Euro. This is just a continuation along that path of the EU going one direction (ever closer union and a superstate run from Brussels), and us going another (devolved power decided by the people who will be affected by it, and a view that looks out towards the world. not an insular European centric view).

Change is difficult, and the EU is a comfort blanket, but we have been going in different directions for a long time.

^^
Totally agree ..

Emp_Fab

I can't help thinking this 'bregret' is like arguing with your partner for ages and then having 'that' conversation and finally agreeing to split - and in the morning the reality of what's just happened hits you and you feel rather lonely and a bit scared about the future.

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

Listened to R4 this morning - an EU Commissioner was speaking. There's a growing realisation that the UK won't be leaving. Cameron has resigned deliberately to create a vacuum - come October he hopes May is PM. By then the rumbling about the result will have reached Westminster and May could call a GE next Spring on the Referendum result on a mandate to stay in  - the Tories could win a landslide victory and ignore the referendum. I get a sense we're not going anywhere.

What else could he have done? He had people calling for him to quit even if Remain won. You had MPs like Steve Baker on the Brexit side going from calling for his head to signing that letter asking him to stay to going back to execution within the space of a week. Guys like Andrew Bridgen bounced from position to position, alternately backing then sacking Cameron when it was politically convenient. Cameron going was exactly the right thing. Irrespective of whether you like or dislike Cameron, to be shat upon just a year after delivering the most unexpected GE victory for decades was a poor show. Why the hell should he stay as PM simply to take the heat off of the Leavers when most of them had damned him to high heaven?

Toby Young's article the other day suggesting a new party of disaffected pro-EU Tories and Labour intelligentsia is quite on the mark especially now Labour are bleeding all over the place. 

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/a-new-home-for-old-labour-with-the-tory-right/

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:

Listened to R4 this morning - an EU Commissioner was speaking. There's a growing realisation that the UK won't be leaving. Cameron has resigned deliberately to create a vacuum - come October he hopes May is PM. By then the rumbling about the result will have reached Westminster and May could call a GE next Spring on the Referendum result on a mandate to stay in  - the Tories could win a landslide victory and ignore the referendum. I get a sense we're not going anywhere.

What else could he have done? He had people calling for him to quit even if Remain won. You had MPs like Steve Baker on the Brexit side going from calling for his head to signing that letter asking him to stay to going back to execution within the space of a week. Guys like Andrew Bridgen bounced from position to position, alternately backing then sacking Cameron when it was politically convenient. Cameron going was exactly the right thing. Irrespective of whether you like or dislike Cameron, to be shat upon just a year after delivering the most unexpected GE victory for decades was a poor show. Why the hell should he stay as PM simply to take the heat off of the Leavers when most of them had damned him to high heaven?

Toby Young's article the other day suggesting a new party of disaffected pro-EU Tories and Labour intelligentsia is quite on the mark especially now Labour are bleeding all over the place. 

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/a-new-home-for-old-labour-with-the-tory-right/

He means Tory left doesn't he ... the Tory right employs manual workers but won't want to be in a party with them .. :-)

I'm more convinced that if the Lib Dems dump Tim 'nice but dim' they could see a resurgence with an influx of Blairite Labour people and maybe a few Tories. May will shift right and Corbyn's to the left. The Lib Dems (or whatever they call themselves) could grab the centre.

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

I'm more convinced that if the Lib Dems dump Tim 'nice but dim' they could see a resurgence with an influx of Blairite Labour people and maybe a few Tories. 

In 11 days time the Chilcot Report will be published. Let's see how the Blairites look after that before thinking they'll be popular in another party.

Clarky

Heartfeltdawn said:

@Clarky What LBC show was this? I'll have a listen tomorrow. 

I think it was Christo…

I didn't catch the entire show cos the reception was poor on parts of the motorway…

some woman phoned in though and left him totally speechless 

Clarky

thomasross20 said:

For the record, I think the referendum was a bad idea. 

Same for Scottish Independence. 

Not because of the outcomes. 

Because there weren't enough hard facts. 

For both I was spoiled vote, basically. That must be an astonishing revelation for some I'm not a big nasty leave voter!

Now the UK is divided as well as Scotland. 

It's like tribalism, and we can see it on this forum right now (disappointingly). 

Leaders are meant to steer the ship and keep us together instead of creating divides. 

I agree… I don't think this should have happened..

btw - I'm not saying that all out voters are stupid and all in voters are wise..

it just seems to me the a lot of people that voted did not fully understand what out actually means..

and includes me, even though I voted to remain

quarky

I voted to leave, think we should leave, but also don't think the vote should have happened..

Ro_S

We'll invoke Article 50 when we damn well want to.

Teresa May has said Brexit will mean full Brexit if she becomes PM.   She seems the most likely person to win the Tory leadership election.  If she doesn't win, then it will be a full-on Brexit campaigner (unlike Boris).  Crabb won't make the final two.    

So we will be invoking Article 50 and getting a full Brexit.

I think the most likely outcome of the Tory leadership election is that May becomes PM and she makes Leadsom her Brexit minister.

Fretwired

The EU should thank us - looks like we've saving it. After the mess the UK finds itself in voters in Denmark are now far more pro EU ... :-)

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/denmark-keen-to-avoid-british-mess-following-referendum/05/07/

Evilmags

I think May will win the MP vote and Ledsome will thrash her in the members vote.

Sporky

Fretwired said:

The EU should thank us - looks like we've saving it. After the mess the UK finds itself in voters in Denmark are now far more pro EU ... :-)

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/denmark-keen-to-avoid-british-mess-following-referendum/05/07/

Does that mean that we're guaranteed a decent price on Lego, Brexit or not?

Fretwired

Sporky said:

Fretwired said:

The EU should thank us - looks like we've saving it. After the mess the UK finds itself in voters in Denmark are now far more pro EU ... :-)

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/denmark-keen-to-avoid-british-mess-following-referendum/05/07/

Does that mean that we're guaranteed a decent price on Lego, Brexit or not?

Probably means will get Referendum 2 - the return of Boris from the wilderness after 20 minutes in which he has a Damascene conversion to Remain.

And cheap Lego ....