High End, Super-chimy Amps?

IvisonGuitars

slacker said:

miserneil said:

A used Bad Cat Black Cat is where the smart money is, SERIOUS amp for not a great deal of outlay. The newer models have the K Master which is apparently awesome and they have reverb too. I saw a couple not long ago barely fetch £900 on eBay. A Crime.

I have a very early Bad Cat Black Cat and I honestly don't think i'll part with that one.

Matchless Lightning too, that'll get you exactly where you want to be.

My Black Cat combo has Matchless components and was £899 used. A lot of amp for that money. It doesnt leave the house much. THe LIghtning head is a lot more portable. 

Mine too although I got mine in a trade. It's the very early one with the double 110v outlets on the back too. I actually converted my 2x12 into a head and use a Matchless 4x10 cab which make it much more gig friendly than the monster 2x12 combo.

@rocktrout has my first Bad Cat Black Cat - bloody LOVED the colour scheme on that one!

I also had an early Bad Cat Cub II for a few months, the original one, I couldn't wait to get shut of it. I hear the newer models are much better though.

slacker

Mine has the outlets too. The previous owner put massive castors on it. Makes it easier for horizontal movement but stairs have me reaching for the inhaler. 

ICBM

Moe_Zambeek said:

How about sticking a 12" blue in a cab and trying that with the Laney...?

Seconded... a lot of the Vox 'chime' is the speakers.

Cheaper than a new amp too, even though it's expensive for a speaker.

stickyfiddle

Ok, so I've watched a bunch of the Champions of Chime videos and a lot of them aren't what I'm after at all. Notwithstanding the fact that most don't have master volumes so are out anyway, they go too far into that raspy Vox thing that's actually not very nice. So maybe "chime" is not quite the right word to describe what I want.

What I'm craving is that compressed edge-of-clean/crunch thing that good Voxes and Fender Deluxes do, but a fuller midrange when wound beyond that. TBH I've always used pedals for gain beyond that clean/crunch point, and will continue to do so, so I just need an amp that doesn't get raspy.

The EF86 channel of the Badcat Cub III sounds perfect from demos and from what people have said I'm pretty confident it'll be what I'm after. I have a tab open with a 23-page TGP thread that I'll wade through too then we'll see...

Moe_Zambeek

camf said:

If I had the money and the lifting muscles I'd have snaffled your matchless, @Moe_Zambeek

Very portable, mine is, @camf

daddyash

stickyfiddle said:

lustycourtier said:

Surely a AC15hw fits the bill?

Tone wise, absolutely, but no master volume means it's out of the question for home playing in an apartment. 

The Bad Cats sounds fantastic from demos and I know from experience they're great sounding amps, but obviously it's a big chunk to spend without trying one first!

The newer vox ac15hw do have a master volume. 
Works great for home playing. 
Brill amps, I love mine. 

4114Effects

stickyfiddle said:

Ok, so I've watched a bunch of the Champions of Chime videos and a lot of them aren't what I'm after at all. Notwithstanding the fact that most don't have master volumes so are out anyway, they go too far into that raspy Vox thing that's actually not very nice. So maybe "chime" is not quite the right word to describe what I want.

What I'm craving is that compressed edge-of-clean/crunch thing that good Voxes and Fender Deluxes do, but a fuller midrange when wound beyond that. TBH I've always used pedals for gain beyond that clean/crunch point, and will continue to do so, so I just need an amp that doesn't get raspy.

The EF86 channel of the Badcat Cub III sounds perfect from demos and from what people have said I'm pretty confident it'll be what I'm after. I have a tab open with a 23-page TGP thread that I'll wade through too then we'll see...

Tweed deluxe sounds about right for your needs. 

stickyfiddle

4114Effects said:

stickyfiddle said:

Ok, so I've watched a bunch of the Champions of Chime videos and a lot of them aren't what I'm after at all. Notwithstanding the fact that most don't have master volumes so are out anyway, they go too far into that raspy Vox thing that's actually not very nice. So maybe "chime" is not quite the right word to describe what I want.

What I'm craving is that compressed edge-of-clean/crunch thing that good Voxes and Fender Deluxes do, but a fuller midrange when wound beyond that. TBH I've always used pedals for gain beyond that clean/crunch point, and will continue to do so, so I just need an amp that doesn't get raspy.

The EF86 channel of the Badcat Cub III sounds perfect from demos and from what people have said I'm pretty confident it'll be what I'm after. I have a tab open with a 23-page TGP thread that I'll wade through too then we'll see...

Tweed deluxe sounds about right for your needs. 

Yeah, quite possibly -i'm certainly open to suggestion!  Are there any good ones with MV or power-scaling? I guess this is where the Cornell Romany+ might come in nicely but I'm a bit scared of amps with only a single tone control.

stickyfiddle

daddyash said:

stickyfiddle said:

lustycourtier said:

Surely a AC15hw fits the bill?

Tone wise, absolutely, but no master volume means it's out of the question for home playing in an apartment. 

The Bad Cats sounds fantastic from demos and I know from experience they're great sounding amps, but obviously it's a big chunk to spend without trying one first!

The newer vox ac15hw do have a master volume. 
Works great for home playing. 
Brill amps, I love mine. 

Thanks, I didn't realise that. Not actually sure if the AC15 is quite the sound I'm after but will google...

stickyfiddle

Another option is a Maz 8, which I realise is a bit more Marshall-flavoured than all the above, but they do sound really really nice in demos, and I loved @Timmyo's Maz18 at a gearfest a few years ago.

4114Effects

@stickyfiddle Get someone to build you one with those options. Power scaling is easy enough to add to most amps.

Not sure MV would work too well with a tweed deluxe as a lot of the drive is from the power section. 

Gassage

THere's a few Hiwatt 20's on ebay. Chime city.

stickyfiddle

4114Effects said:

@stickyfiddle Get someone to build you one with those options. Power scaling is easy enough to add to most amps.

Not sure MV would work too well with a tweed deluxe as a lot of the drive is from the power section. 

That of course is another option. Might talk to Mr MJW before making any firm decisions in other directions.

The Maz sounds fantastic here at 2:20

stickyfiddle

Gassage said:

THere's a few Hiwatt 20's on ebay. Chime city.

Awesome amps but louder than God

llew

Maz 18 all day long for me.

thomasross20

How does this K master thingyamajig compare and relate to power scaling?

thomasross20

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/21601-bad-cat-unveils-the-k-master-volume-circuit

ICBM

stickyfiddle said:

Ok, so I've watched a bunch of the Champions of Chime videos and a lot of them aren't what I'm after at all. Notwithstanding the fact that most don't have master volumes so are out anyway, they go too far into that raspy Vox thing that's actually not very nice. So maybe "chime" is not quite the right word to describe what I want.

What I'm craving is that compressed edge-of-clean/crunch thing that good Voxes and Fender Deluxes do, but a fuller midrange when wound beyond that.

In that case I'd still go for the Blue speaker (or possibly a Gold, if you want more mids), and an attenuator. You won't get the compression without pushing the power stage hard, even with a master volume to create overdrive - that will give more of the raspy Voxy thing. So I would start with those and your Laney, and only change the amp if that doesn't work since you will still need them (at least the attenuator) with any other amp you get.

For me power scaling doesn't do it - you don't get the 'bounce' because the power supply isn't under the same load when the amp is producing less power. Only attenuation does that.

thomasross20

I really need to differentiate between master volume amps, k master,power scaling etc. 

ICBM

thomasross20 said:

I really need to differentiate between master volume amps, k master,power scaling etc. 

thomasross20 said:

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/21601-bad-cat-unveils-the-k-master-volume-circuit

That sounds remarkably like what you can do with the FX loop on the Mesa Dual Rectifier/Trem-o-verb, and some other amps… a valve send/return circuit that's designed to match the amp to a variety of effects, but can also be used to cut or boost the signal between the preamp and the power amp (drastically, if you want).

Basically:

Master Volume - a volume control at the end of the preamp. This enables you to get preamp distortion at low volume, with the power stage running clean. There are at least a couple of different types, which work slightly differently.

Power scaling - controlling the actual output power of the amp by altering the power supply voltages. This does give power-stage overdrive at low volume, but still without the sag/compression from the power *supply* being loaded heavily.

Attenuation - lowers the power reaching the speaker, without affecting the amp. You would think this would be the best (and in my opinion it can be) but it tends to affect the way the speakers interact with the amp so it isn't always.

My preference is for a mixture of master volume and attenuation. I've never heard an amp with power scaling that I think sounds natural when it's turned down - but I know many people think the exact opposite.