How do YOU play guitar ?¿?

Blueingreen

Elx said:

@Octatonic,I have listened to everything these two guys in particular have ever recorded, just because I am curious and I have never limited myself to one style. Also, if Lukather says Larry is the man you take note and you go and listen to it. Sadly, apart from Steely Dan, it simply doesn't do anything for me.

Edit: the solo works of course, who knows how many records Larry has done as a session musician

I agree with that, in fact I think it's pretty true of all of the guys Steely Dan used (except Knopfler, or Rosenwinkel if you include Fagen's solo stuff).  I'm not that much of a rock guitar fan (or even much of a rock music fan really) but if I had to list my 20 favourite rock guitar solos about half would come from SD tracks.  All these great players, and yet any time I've tried to check out their solo repertoire, there just seems to be nothing there.

Q: Can you call someone a great player if he can only produce great work under the guidance of a superior artist?

Elx

Q: Can you call someone a great player if he can only produce great work under the guidance of a superior artist?

I think so, yes, they still had to deliver it...

octatonic

Blueingreen said:

Elx said:

@Octatonic,I have listened to everything these two guys in particular have ever recorded, just because I am curious and I have never limited myself to one style. Also, if Lukather says Larry is the man you take note and you go and listen to it. Sadly, apart from Steely Dan, it simply doesn't do anything for me.

Edit: the solo works of course, who knows how many records Larry has done as a session musician

I agree with that, in fact I think it's pretty true of all of the guys Steely Dan used (except Knopfler, or Rosenwinkel if you include Fagen's solo stuff).  I'm not that much of a rock guitar fan (or even much of a rock music fan really) but if I had to list my 20 favourite rock guitar solos about half would come from SD tracks.  All these great players, and yet any time I've tried to check out their solo repertoire, there just seems to be nothing there.

Q: Can you call someone a great player if he can only produce great work under the guidance of a superior artist?

Just listen to it.



It is just perfect.

While I am at it- have a listen to Gadd's drum work on this track, especially at the end:

Elx

I have to make one exception, Carlton/Ford Live in Tokyo, I like that, been listening to it on and off for 3 months now

stratman3142

Elx said:

I have to make one exception, Carlton/Ford Live in Tokyo, I like that, been listening to it on and off for 3 months now

I saw them together at the Jazz Cafe a few years back. A great gig.

Sassafras

3 chords and some twiddly bits. Job done.
Glad I could help.

Blueingreen

octatonic said:

Blueingreen said:

Elx said:

@Octatonic,I have listened to everything these two guys in particular have ever recorded, just because I am curious and I have never limited myself to one style. Also, if Lukather says Larry is the man you take note and you go and listen to it. Sadly, apart from Steely Dan, it simply doesn't do anything for me.

Edit: the solo works of course, who knows how many records Larry has done as a session musician

I agree with that, in fact I think it's pretty true of all of the guys Steely Dan used (except Knopfler, or Rosenwinkel if you include Fagen's solo stuff).  I'm not that much of a rock guitar fan (or even much of a rock music fan really) but if I had to list my 20 favourite rock guitar solos about half would come from SD tracks.  All these great players, and yet any time I've tried to check out their solo repertoire, there just seems to be nothing there.

Q: Can you call someone a great player if he can only produce great work under the guidance of a superior artist?

Just listen to it.



It is just perfect.

While I am at it- have a listen to Gadd's drum work on this track, especially at the end:

 You are absolutely preaching to the converted, I learned the solos on KC many years ago and still occasionally stick on a backing track and run through them, albeit somewhat rustily from lack of practice.  It's a great solo, no doubt (or two great solos) although Denny Dias's solo on Your Gold Teeth 2 probably edges it as my favourite SD solo. 

I wouldn't be so niggardly as to deny the description "great player" to Carlton.  And of course he was more than a guitar player with SD - as far as I can gather he was practically an MD on some of their stuff in terms of coming up with instrumental arrangements, co-ordinating other musicians etc.  And he has multi production credits with major artists. So phenomenal skills.

And yet you come up against the problem that the most celebrated thing he's done under his own name is probably the one-notch-above-muzak Mr 335.  The highlight of his live shows is an instrumental version of Josie. Any amount of artists with a fraction of his sophistication have made lots of music under their own name that I love hearing. I'm not sure he's made any.

PolarityMan

If I'm soloing in the standard way I the,he to be thinking in patterns. Now I'm trying to get more into solos that use sound / fx etc creatively.

when I'm writing I have some ingrained knowledge of notes and intervals but what I'm really thinking in is accent patterns, "busyness level" and relative level of focus with the other instruments.


and how cool it sounds

ChrisMusic

Hmmm, interesting, tell me more guys...

pintspiller

I have had a few "road to Damascus" moments over the years. Early ones were realising that you don't need all five fingers to play an A Barre, just index ring and tbumb. Another was learning the 5th 6th Chuck Berry boogie. Another was playing with tons of volume/od makes you sound better. Another was learning to control feedback

ChrisMusic

I was hoping there might be a little more input on the subject of intervallic playing, but I guess that's not such a common approach, although it is the fundamental principle behind creating emotional shifts in music IMO.

Voxman

ChrisMusic said:

Do you play notes, intervals or patterns ?

I thought it would be interesting to gauge how people on here approach playing, how you "see/feel" music and the guitar in particular...

And what do you feel the strengths and weaknesses of each approach are, etc ? (if you have an opinion on it, of course)   ~O)

I would answer this...if only I understood the question!    I've been playing for over 40 years...and I have no idea what an interval is...other than the break between 2 sets at a gig...seriously!   

Barney

ChrisMusic said:

I was hoping there might be a little more input on the subject of intervallic playing, but I guess that's not such a common approach, although it is the fundamental principle behind creating emotional shifts in music IMO.

The only intervalic things i do are string by skipping i imagine not having a certain strings for a couple of days...could be the B string and D string for example .....it makes me think differently..
I started with Blues scales ..pentatonics ect and moved on to full scales in all positions both 3 note and standard and finally joinng 3nps scales together ...
Recenty iv been working a lot on arpeggios over various chords..a lot of 2 5 1 progressions and getting to the point i know what i am playing at any part of what i play ...so really im thinking more about the chords and chord tones..
A good book for scales and intervalic playing is The serious jazz practise book by Barry Finnerty ...life times worth of material in it 

koneguitarist

Blueingreen said:

octatonic said:

Blueingreen said:

Elx said:

@Octatonic,I have listened to everything these two guys in particular have ever recorded, just because I am curious and I have never limited myself to one style. Also, if Lukather says Larry is the man you take note and you go and listen to it. Sadly, apart from Steely Dan, it simply doesn't do anything for me.

Edit: the solo works of course, who knows how many records Larry has done as a session musician

I agree with that, in fact I think it's pretty true of all of the guys Steely Dan used (except Knopfler, or Rosenwinkel if you include Fagen's solo stuff).  I'm not that much of a rock guitar fan (or even much of a rock music fan really) but if I had to list my 20 favourite rock guitar solos about half would come from SD tracks.  All these great players, and yet any time I've tried to check out their solo repertoire, there just seems to be nothing there.

Q: Can you call someone a great player if he can only produce great work under the guidance of a superior artist?

Just listen to it.



It is just perfect.

While I am at it- have a listen to Gadd's drum work on this track, especially at the end:

 You are absolutely preaching to the converted, I learned the solos on KC many years ago and still occasionally stick on a backing track and run through them, albeit somewhat rustily from lack of practice.  It's a great solo, no doubt (or two great solos) although Denny Dias's solo on Your Gold Teeth 2 probably edges it as my favourite SD solo. 

I wouldn't be so niggardly as to deny the description "great player" to Carlton.  And of course he was more than a guitar player with SD - as far as I can gather he was practically an MD on some of their stuff in terms of coming up with instrumental arrangements, co-ordinating other musicians etc.  And he has multi production credits with major artists. So phenomenal skills.

And yet you come up against the problem that the most celebrated thing he's done under his own name is probably the one-notch-above-muzak Mr 335.  The highlight of his live shows is an instrumental version of Josie. Any amount of artists with a fraction of his sophistication have made lots of music under their own name that I love hearing. I'm not sure he's made any.

I think the true mark of a great guitarist is playing what's right for the song, Steely Dan always had great songs. A great solo is just that a great solo, however a great solo in a great song is the icing on the cake. You can have a great song without a great solo, but a great solo doesn't make a great song.

MatthewShreddery

This thread is SOOOOOO guitarist. I mean, I can not imagine players of any other instrument having these sorts of discussions. We're a weird bunch, very egotistical and insecure all at the same time. We need to get over ourselves and lighten up. 

octatonic

Drummers talk like this all the time.
So do bassists.
They also bitch and moan about guitarists.

Rowby1

Serve the song.....that's it. If you can do that without theory then fine. If you need to learn more theory to achieve that then go learn some theory. 

I've heard a lot of players (both those strong on theory and those are totally ignorant of theory) who don't do that. They're too busy playing the guitar to play the song.

richardhomer

Rowby1 said:

Serve the song.....that's it. If you can do that without theory then fine. If you need to learn more theory to achieve that then go learn some theory. 

I've heard a lot of players (both those strong on theory and those are totally ignorant of theory) who don't do that. They're too busy playing the guitar to play the song.

'Wis'd' - completely agree - all the true greats serve the song. Some - Andy Summers is a good example - have incredible chops and harmonic knowledge. Others - George Harrison & Mike Campbell spring to mind - play from a much more limited palette - but with an 'ear' for the perfect part to enhance the track. 

But they each 'serve the song'.

koneguitarist

The song is king. Playing right notes for solo is great, knowing what they are is a bonus.
but it's the choice of notes and feel needed to lift song that's most important.
Great players like Gilmour, Clapton, Beck and Harrison knew what notes to play, despite their often lack of theorey knowledge, that's not a knock on players who have the knowledge just one example of being a musician first guitarist second.
Players like Carlton, Peluso, Ford and Lukather also play great solos that are right for the song, knowledge doesn't mean no feel or a lack of empathy for song, just means you have the tools or vocabulary to voice them. 

Barney

I think the feel aspect of playing and phrasing is what creates a great solo...most rock and pop is probably over a diatonic chord progression as in one key ...and some of the players above are my favourites with great feel ...i think things come unstuck a bit is when there are a few key changes and thats probably where you would need to know where your at and what notes will work over the given chords ...then add the feel and phrasing

I do think though that theory is important when practising because it will give ideas ..notes ..scales ect that will work plus it gives new ideas that can become part of your playing ...

But at the end of the day no one needs theory  to communicate with people...the way i look at it theory dosnt do any harm and can help iff used with in my opinion good feel and phrasing ...

Have your cake and eat it...thats what i say