Was I unreasonable?

rlw

To negotiate price, shipping, or payment options, please send a message or make an offer.

Perhaps this is what leads me to believe I should have heard from the buyer.  This is what is says in my "shop".

rlw

professorben said:

I think the buyer was having 'real life fun' too. 
Buying a nice guitar for a great price. 

Who mentioned fun ?

rlw

Ok.  One final question for you all.  You've seen a guitar you fancy on a website.  It's being sold by an individual, not a shop.  If you don't like it, you won't get your money back.

Do you contact the seller or just send a four figure sum to the seller, sight unseen, and hope it's OK?

And ignore whether or not it might have faults - it doesn't.

professorben

In your first post you said you had refunded the buyer. 

A while later you post an email from t'he buyer' showing 'buyers remorse' and offering you £10 for your trouble. 

So which was it?
Did you refund him first as you said?
Did the poor sod then have to send you £10 back?! Lol

stimpsonslostson

rlw said:

Ok.  One final question for you all.  You've seen a guitar you fancy on a website.  It's being sold by an individual, not a shop.  If you don't like it, you won't get your money back.

Do you contact the seller or just send a four figure sum to the seller, sight unseen, and hope it's OK?

And ignore whether or not it might have faults - it doesn't.

In the case that you simply "don't like it" you probably won't get a refund, but that's why you sometimes get a bargain.  I've bought loads of things (guitars and otherwise) via eBay etc, some I've not bonded with and ended up selling on. That's part & parcel of buying privately second hand.
The extra money you would pay to a retailer (by this I mean someone like GAK/Andertons/GuitarGuitar) is the ability to try a guitar and have the option of returning it "in it's original condition" if you decide it's not for you. Well, that and for the warranty should it break.

But on ebay/reverb you WILL get your money back if there's something wrong: damaged/fake etc- not saying this is you- merely that if an item is not as advertised.
. That's the whole point of these sites and the reason you pay PayPal fees- so that you can buy with confidence that if things aren't as they should be you have recourse to appeal. 

TimmyO

rlw said:

To negotiate price, shipping, or payment options, please send a message or make an offer.

Perhaps this is what leads me to believe I should have heard from the buyer.  This is what is says in my "shop".

He didn't want to negotiate on any of those things - he was happy with the terms you have up in your 'shop'

It seems to me that you just didn't pay close enough attention when you set up the ad. It also seems that this is also the prevailing view. and given the premise of the thread was to seek clarification on what people thought about your view, we're done here right? 

rlw

Phew...

How could I refund him first when I didn't even know I'd got the money.   

Timescale.

Saturday afternoon.

He sends me money.
He suffers buyers remorse.
He sees a way out of the situation.
He is now happy with his purchase.

Sunday morning

I discover, quite by chance, a lot of money in my paypal account and wonder WTF.
I find that a bloke I've never heard of, or from, has bought my LP without asking a single question or discussing shipping.
I refund him and incur further charges so he is not out of pocket.  

(Foolishly), I seek clarification  - not absolution, not approval, not anything else in fact - of what I perceive as an odd way of buying a guitar.

meltedbuzzbox

rlw said:

MattFGBI said:

Excellent thread. 

Glad you like it :-)

I'm trying to get my VAT return done, very unsuccessfully at the moment.... 

Take amount earnt and deduct 20 percent.

That's your vat...

IvisonGuitars

rlw

meltedbuzzbox said:

rlw said:

MattFGBI said:

Excellent thread. 

Glad you like it :-)

I'm trying to get my VAT return done, very unsuccessfully at the moment.... 

Take amount earnt and deduct 20 percent.

That's your vat...

No it isn't.  On that basis it's 16.67 percent.

And what about the expenses..................

meltedbuzzbox

rlw said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

rlw said:

MattFGBI said:

Excellent thread. 

Glad you like it :-)

I'm trying to get my VAT return done, very unsuccessfully at the moment.... 

Take amount earnt and deduct 20 percent.

That's your vat...

No it isn't.  On that basis it's 16.67 percent.

And what about the expenses..................

Deducting 20 percent from a total is 16.67?!?!

I can see why you are having issue

WezV

The buyer had remorse, but realised he was being a dick so decided to honour the offer he had made.  That is a good buyer.


You talk about offers being made...you made the opening offer when you listed the guitar.  If the buyer had made a counter offer you would have had the option to accept or reject.  Instead he accepted your opening offer.

rlw

meltedbuzzbox said:

rlw said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

rlw said:

MattFGBI said:

Excellent thread. 

Glad you like it :-)

I'm trying to get my VAT return done, very unsuccessfully at the moment.... 

Take amount earnt and deduct 20 percent.

That's your vat...

No it isn't.  On that basis it's 16.67 percent.

And what about the expenses..................

Deducting 20 percent from a total is 16.67?!?!

I can see why you are having issue

meltedbuzzbox said:

rlw said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

rlw said:

MattFGBI said:

Excellent thread. 

Glad you like it :-)

I'm trying to get my VAT return done, very unsuccessfully at the moment.... 

Take amount earnt and deduct 20 percent.

That's your vat...

No it isn't.  On that basis it's 16.67 percent.

And what about the expenses..................

Deducting 20 percent from a total is 16.67?!?!

I can see why you are having issue

If the total sales are £100 the VAT is £16.67, not £20.  Sorry, I'm not the one with the problem here.

20% is added to the net total but 16.67% is deducted from the gross total.

professorben

rlw said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

rlw said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

rlw said:

MattFGBI said:

Excellent thread. 

Glad you like it :-)

I'm trying to get my VAT return done, very unsuccessfully at the moment.... 

Take amount earnt and deduct 20 percent.

That's your vat...

No it isn't.  On that basis it's 16.67 percent.

And what about the expenses..................

Deducting 20 percent from a total is 16.67?!?!

I can see why you are having issue

meltedbuzzbox said:

rlw said:

meltedbuzzbox said:

rlw said:

MattFGBI said:

Excellent thread. 

Glad you like it :-)

I'm trying to get my VAT return done, very unsuccessfully at the moment.... 

Take amount earnt and deduct 20 percent.

That's your vat...

No it isn't.  On that basis it's 16.67 percent.

And what about the expenses..................

Deducting 20 percent from a total is 16.67?!?!

I can see why you are having issue

If the total sales are £100 the VAT is £16.67, not £20.  Sorry, I'm not the one with the problem here.

20% is added to the net total but 16.67% is deducted from the gross total.

Nicely diverted. 

TonyR

@rlw have you been drinking?!

I seriously don't understand what you problem is:

1. You advertised a guitar for sale on the Internet at a price you were happy with.
2. PayPal was one of the payment options you were happy to accept.
3. Somebody who you don't know (because the guitar was advertised on the Internet) buys the guitar - at your asking price.
4. You are somehow unhappy...

From the buyer's perspective there is no negotiation required, they have paid your asking price and paid via a method you accepted - what's to negotiate?

If you list something on eBay as a Buy-It-Now and somebody buys it would you expect them to negotiate with you?

It would seem pretty much anyone that's commented here is of a similar opinion.

Today has obviously not been a good day for you. If I were you I'd chalk this one down to experience and move on.

Tomorrow is another day - just make sure you don't wake up with a hangover!

fretmeister

rlw said:

OK.  Seems I'm in the wrong here so that is taken on board.  Lesson learned.

I'm still surprised that I got no choice to accept or decline the offer though.   When I sold my PRRI last week, there was an email from reverb that said I had an offer which I could accept/decline/counter, whether the full price was offered, which it was, or not.

I chose to accept in that instance.  I wasn't given the option in this.   Anyway, there you go.

You realise you have completely ruined your first sentence now?

YOU made the offer to sell. He accepted and sent you the money.

Most online used sales platforms are not traditional shops in that they are not an "invitation to treat"

He accepted your offer in the terms that you presented you moan about it? There was no need for negotiation because there wasn't any! He accepted all of your terms. You don't get to change them after it has been accepted. You don't negotiate on settled terms!

fretmeister

rlw said:

Ok.  One final question for you all.  You've seen a guitar you fancy on a website.  It's being sold by an individual, not a shop.  If you don't like it, you won't get your money back.

Do you contact the seller or just send a four figure sum to the seller, sight unseen, and hope it's OK?

And ignore whether or not it might have faults - it doesn't.

You mean just like on an eBay Buy It Now sale?

Happens millions of times every day.

rlw

TonyR said:

@rlw have you been drinking?!

I seriously don't understand what you problem is:

1. You advertised a guitar for sale on the Internet at a price you were happy with.
2. PayPal was one of the payment options you were happy to accept.
3. Somebody who you don't know (because the guitar was advertised on the Internet) buys the guitar - at your asking price.
4. You are somehow unhappy...

From the buyer's perspective there is no negotiation required, they have paid your asking price and paid via a method you accepted - what's to negotiate?

If you list something on eBay as a Buy-It-Now and somebody buys it would you expect them to negotiate with you?

It would seem pretty much anyone that's commented here is of a similar opinion.

Today has obviously not been a good day for you. If I were you I'd chalk this one down to experience and move on.

Tomorrow is another day - just make sure you don't wake up with a hangover!

No to the first question, but I might in a minute.

Anyway, very wise words and, clearly, I'm in the wrong.  

I do, however, still have a very nice LP for sale........................ :-)

rlw

fretmeister said:

rlw said:

Ok.  One final question for you all.  You've seen a guitar you fancy on a website.  It's being sold by an individual, not a shop.  If you don't like it, you won't get your money back.

Do you contact the seller or just send a four figure sum to the seller, sight unseen, and hope it's OK?

And ignore whether or not it might have faults - it doesn't.

You mean just like on an eBay Buy It Now sale?

Happens millions of times every day.

Surely not?

TonyR

rlw said:

I do, however, still have a very nice LP for sale........................ :-)

Sorry fella, not my thing, but GLWTS.