Goodbye Apple, I'm off to the dark side!

Bidley

Danny1969 said:

I'm an electronics engineer, if it's a shit design I notice it.

Thing is though, you're trying to tell me that you and Apple are right, and pretty much everyone else is wrong. If micro USB was truly that shit, then it wouldn't be standard on millions of devices.

I'm not saying it's the jesus of device connections, just using a bit of logic.

Anyway, the point I was originally making was that micro USB isn't an obscure, unreasonable connection like the post I was quoting was trying to make it out to be.

Bidley

Danny1969 said:

on some the micro USB port is soldered directly to the mainboard and replacing it is a bit of a nightmare .... I do a lot of them with a hot air gun but in some cases it's not possible and the customer needs a new £189 motherboard because a £1.24 connector is broke

Sure, that is stupid as hell. But that's not down to the micro USB or Android, is it?

Drew_TNBD

octatonic said:

That is essentially who that image is poking fun at, I think.

I just think it's a bit of a strawman to be honest Jim.

Danny1969

Bidley said:

Danny1969 said:

I'm an electronics engineer, if it's a shit design I notice it.

Thing is though, you're trying to tell me that you and Apple are right, and pretty much everyone else is wrong. If micro USB was truly that shit, then it wouldn't be standard on millions of devices.

I'm not saying it's the jesus of device connections, just using a bit of logic.

Anyway, the point I was originally making was that micro USB isn't an obscure, unreasonable connection like the post I was quoting was trying to make it out to be.

No you are right, the micro USB isn't uncommon at all. It is a more common connector than the Apple one. It's just strange how sometimes bad connectors do get established and used despite their shortcomings. I think it's a case of use what's all ready there, like the 1\4 jack we use for everything guitar related was originally a post office connector for patching calls. 

octatonic

Danny1969 said:

Bidley said:

Danny1969 said:

I'm an electronics engineer, if it's a shit design I notice it.

Thing is though, you're trying to tell me that you and Apple are right, and pretty much everyone else is wrong. If micro USB was truly that shit, then it wouldn't be standard on millions of devices.

I'm not saying it's the jesus of device connections, just using a bit of logic.

Anyway, the point I was originally making was that micro USB isn't an obscure, unreasonable connection like the post I was quoting was trying to make it out to be.

No you are right, the micro USB isn't uncommon at all. It is a more common connector than the Apple one. It's just strange how sometimes bad connectors do get established and used despite their shortcomings. I think it's a case of use what's all ready there, like the 1\4 jack we use for everything guitar related was originally a post office connector for patching calls.

USB exists in 4 dimension space, as we all know.



Give me Ethercon, Speakon or BNC any day of the week.

BigBearKris

octatonic said:

BigBearKris said:

octatonic said:

It's lacking rotary dials so I'm sorry, but I'm out.

They are top right.

For volume and tuning. I want to dial a number on rotary!

Axe_meister

The micro and mini USB were developed by a committee just like scart another god awful standard.

crunchman

The great thing about the mini USB (like it or not) is that I can use any charger with anything.  If I can't find the charger for my Nook then not a problem, I just plug it into the phone charger, or vice versa.  I can charge my personal phone from my work crapberry charger or vice versa.

Sometimes things are standard for a reason.  All of Apple's non-standard connections are an absolute pain.

When I lost the charger for my old (glad to see the back of it) Macbook they wanted £65 for a new one which is outrageous.  They just seem to use these non-standard connectors as a way of gouging people for money - look at these new airpods.

Flink_Poyd

It would be far better if the Lightning style charger was the standard, just so it could be plugged in face up or face down unlike most USB (at the mo) which is one way and has a slot inside of a plug. Backwards thinking in terms of usablity.

bob21

Anyway, the point I was originally making was that micro USB isn't an obscure, unreasonable connection like the post I was quoting was trying to make it out to be.

Obscure - no, quite, I agree. But that wasn't the point, was it? The point I was making is that the market penetration of lightning-connector-ed devices in this industry is far, far higher.

Unreasonable? Well, yes, I personally think it's a stupid connector. It's shite, they wear out, it's not twin-faced, and it's not all one standard, as everyone makes out, there are various schemes for 'fast charging' that do not necessarily transfer phone-to-phone or cable-to-cable..

Just because something is the most common connector, does not make it the best connector.. Why do we all use 1/4" jacks on guitars, and then loop them through the strap so they can't be pulled out when we stand on the lead.. Why not use a locking connector? Why do we use an unbalanced system, when we could balance the output at the guitar, and not have to suffer cable-induced hum? etc etc...

As always, there are far more factors driving a connector choice than it being the 'best' - cost, applicable patents, standards, size, competitor's choices etc etc. Apple don't tend to worry about those things too much! 

Take the Magsafe connector on the MacBooks for instance.. Yes, it is non standard (though when was the last time you could 'borrow' someone else's laptop charger that didn't have the same make as yours), and yes, it's chuffing expensive. However, the magnetic safety has saved my (>£1k) laptop from hitting the floor several times.. and when I had to for out £50 for a new charger, I (begrudgingly) remembered that fact!

ThePrettyDamned

I'm waiting for the next Google phone to come out to hopefully lower the price of the Nexus 6p. I still use my Nexus 4 which is over 3 years old and has been absolutely abused. Runs as smoothly as my friend's Samsung galaxy s6, despite the lower grade hardware. Obviously won't play the latest games but who cares? It has only just started being a bit dicky but I did crack the back of the case when I dropped it.

I am looking at photo editing computers and as much as I try to convince myself an iMac or Mac pro or even macbook pro is a good idea, I can spec a PC with windows 10 pro, 512gb Samsung 950 m.2 drive, 1tb sandisk main ssd ,nvidia gtx 1060 6gb, 2x16gb ram with 2 spare slots, blue ray drive and an i7 6700k all on an MSI or Asus premium (overkill) mobo for... 600 quid less than the base Mac pro, or about the same as a macbook pro with less speed, storage and far less ability to play games (okay,its only occasional gaming I'd do but still). Even if I didn't build myself it would be a good £500 or so cheaper. Which is the price of a decent, wide gamut benq or del 27 inch monitor at 1440p. 

And that's a really, really overkill setup in a quiet fractal case. I could easily reduce the m.2 drive by half, use a lower graphics card and use slower ram (still 32gb) and it would be absolutely killer, probably lasting 5 years of work with only hard drive and ram upgrades that don't cost many hundreds of pounds like they do in a Mac.

And yet, I still weigh it against a Mac pro... just for the lighter OS. I'd have a slightly slower processor but not a big deal. Dual firepro graphics means a 30 bit workflow is possible but that's largely a waste of time anyway, and firepro graphics are shite for games. I'd have half as much pci-e storage unless I pay through the nose to upgrade,same for ram (just 1/4 the amount unless I pay a few hundred quid to upgrade -really, apple, a few hundred quid for a couple of sticks of ram?). But how much does that matter? 

I'm with @stickyfiddle though. Our arguments for and against any camp are proof that we live in an amazing age of technology. Pci-e m.2 cards the size of a stick of gum can transfer absolutely monster amounts of information in seconds and processors are getting cooler and faster every generation. Graphics cards are capable of driving 4k games at max settings and 30 bit colour workflow is (very very slowly) becoming more affordable. Windows and Mac, android and iOS are all very stable systems that are well established, fast and safe. 

And your new mobile phone probably has about the same power as my 4 year old laptop. Which is, frankly, incredible.

crunchman

For laptop power connectors someone needs to agree a standard.  You have organisations like BSI, ANSI, ISO etc.  Bang heads together and agree on standard so that laptop chargers are interchangeable.  Some kind of magnetic thing like magsafe should be built into the standard.

If Apple are idiots and refuse to license it then they should be forced to by the government.

Wolfetone

I've had Androids as a personal phone and iPhones for work.

The best phone I ever had was a Sony Z3 which was just awesome as I take loads of photo's and video. The iPhone was very reliable but not a patch on the performance of the Z3. Android all the way for me. I have an S6 at the moment and I am heading back to Sony when I get the opportunity.   

Danny1969

crunchman said:

For laptop power connectors someone needs to agree a standard.  You have organisations like BSI, ANSI, ISO etc.  Bang heads together and agree on standard so that laptop chargers are interchangeable.  Some kind of magnetic thing like magsafe should be built into the standard.

If Apple are idiots and refuse to license it then they should be forced to by the government.

There's too many variables to make a standard charger that works with every laptop. Apple, Dell. HP etc have all got their own version of the one wire circuit which talks to the battery and charger and reports back it's serial number and capabilities before deciding it can be used for charging.  This is a clever but more expensive circuit that people like Asus, Acer, Novatech etc aren't interested in because it makes the notebook better protected voltage \ current \ reverser polarity wise  but  more expensive 

Handsome_Chris

If the earphones are wireless, how do they get power?  Are the earphones going to have some sort of battery pack like a hearing aid?

crunchman

Danny1969 said:

crunchman said:

For laptop power connectors someone needs to agree a standard.  You have organisations like BSI, ANSI, ISO etc.  Bang heads together and agree on standard so that laptop chargers are interchangeable.  Some kind of magnetic thing like magsafe should be built into the standard.

If Apple are idiots and refuse to license it then they should be forced to by the government.

There's too many variables to make a standard charger that works with every laptop. Apple, Dell. HP etc have all got their own version of the one wire circuit which talks to the battery and charger and reports back it's serial number and capabilities before deciding it can be used for charging.  This is a clever but more expensive circuit that people like Asus, Acer, Novatech etc aren't interested in because it makes the notebook better protected voltage \ current \ reverser polarity wise  but  more expensive 

Build the polarity protection into the laptop.  People put protection on guitar pedals against wrong polarity.  It can be done on a laptop.

Just specify something simple like 12V so you can use any 12V supply it could be the computer equivalent of the centre negative 9V supply we use with our pedals.  It's not optimum for every circuit but if a pedal needs more headroom the manufacturer will put a charge pump inside the pedal because that is the standard supply.  Just do the same with the computer.  Have all the gubbins inside it.

TimmyO

Handsome_Chris said:

If the earphones are wireless, how do they get power?  Are the earphones going to have some sort of battery pack like a hearing aid?

They come with a (white plastic obviously ;-) ) carry case - the carry case is also a battery pack, so they charge when they are in there. The case plugs in to charge up and itself holds multiple charges worth for the ear pods. 

Danny1969

crunchman said:

Danny1969 said:

Build the polarity protection into the laptop.  People put protection on guitar pedals against wrong polarity.  It can be done on a laptop.

Just specify something simple like 12V so you can use any 12V supply it could be the computer equivalent of the centre negative 9V supply we use with our pedals.  It's not optimum for every circuit but if a pedal needs more headroom the manufacturer will put a charge pump inside the pedal because that is the standard supply.  Just do the same with the computer.  Have all the gubbins inside it.

Actually everything in the laptop needs a lower voltage than the 19V ish that comes in from the charger, so you have various buck converters over the board that convert to what ever voltage is needed, CPU core might need 1.5V, harddrive needs 5V and such. You could use 12V but if you did then the 12V charger would have to supply a higher current that a 19V one to provide the same power. As higher currents require thicker cable and better connectors it's actually better to start with something like 24V not 12

A standard simple single supply like a pedal power supply won't work as for modern optimum charging you need the charger and battery to talk to the charging chip  ...... if you look carefully at a Dell \ HP  Apple connector your see they have + volts, ground and what's known as the one wire pin ... on a Dell  \ HP charger it's the thin pin in the centre. On an Apple it's the small pin in the middle of the Magsafe.  This connection is power and data and allows the charger to be identified in the bios and charging will only start if everything is correct in terms of load versus available power etc. Then there are many models of laptop will different power requirements. An owner of a Dell Latitude XT that needs less than a 40 watt charger doesn't want to cart around a bulky 120 watt charger that could serve 90% of Dell models

As Bob mentioned above. There is no real standard for USB charging. The source is supposed to identify it's self by wherever the data pins are high or shorted .... then if a dedicated USB chip like a Maxim 88xx is used the chip will deduce what power is safe to draw and charge accordingly. In practice though manufactures of both chargers and tablets \ phones haven't adhered to the guidelines and charging is hit and miss.Things  will generally charge as even a suspended USB port will allow a few mA;s but as charging wasn't originally part of the USB spec charging time is a lottery

TimmyO

Maybe we could introduce some sort of simple charging interface, perhaps a jack plug?... :-) 

Handsome_Chris

Does each earphone have its own battery?