Line 6 Spider V

guitarfishbay

hugbot said:

I remember hearing that the spider range is one of the best selling amps in the world but I might be pulling that out of my arse.

They're selling them in Costco with a sticker to the effect of '1 million guitarists can't be wrong'

ICBM

hugbot said:

I remember hearing that the spider range is one of the best selling amps in the world

It is - the best, not one of.

I'll admit that initially I hated them due to playing through a couple of the original ones in rehearsal rooms or being the bassist while the guitarist struggled with one - at full band volume, for classic rock sounds, they just sound nasty… harsh, artificial and with no dynamics. That's still true right up to the IV series, so we will have to see about the new ones.

But I had my mind changed by a friend who uses one for instrumental guitar solo gigs, with backing tracks… "guitar karaoke" for want of a better description. He'd always struggled with 'real' amps because they're too dynamic and it's difficult to get a good mix with the backing tracks - but the Spider is *perfect*. Because it sounds something like a recording of a guitar amp, it works perfectly with a recording of a band, and in that context it doesn't just sound acceptable, it sounds great.

They're excellent at lower volume for practicing and jamming too. There are certainly bad sounds in them, but there are decent ones too if you take the trouble to dial them in.

guitarfishbay

ICBM said:

hugbot said:

I remember hearing that the spider range is one of the best selling amps in the world

It is - the best, not one of.

I'll admit that initially I hated them due to playing through a couple of the original ones in rehearsal rooms or being the bassist while the guitarist struggled with one - at full band volume, for classic rock sounds, they just sound nasty… harsh, artificial and with no dynamics. That's still true right up to the IV series, so we will have to see about the new ones.

But I had my mind changed by a friend who uses one for instrumental guitar solo gigs, with backing tracks… "guitar karaoke" for want of a better description. He'd always struggled with 'real' amps because they're too dynamic and it's difficult to get a good mix with the backing tracks - but the Spider is *perfect*. Because it sounds something like a recording of a guitar amp, it works perfectly with a recording of a band, and in that context it doesn't just sound acceptable, it sounds great.

They're excellent at lower volume for practicing and jamming too. There are certainly bad sounds in them, but there are decent ones too if you take the trouble to dial them in.

That specific dynamic response spawned musical production styles, Joey Sturgis is known for saying he preferred to use Line 6 plugins instead of valve amps specifically because they're more consistent (or something along those lines) - basically their limited dynamic range sits them where he wanted much more easily than a valve amp.

ICBM

I also have to say that despite the huge numbers of them out there, I very rarely see them for repair. I can only remember two or three - and one of those had been bought in the US and then plugged into the UK mains without the owner thinking about the voltage, which you can't blame the amp for.

Some of the earlier Line6 models weren't as good, but they seem to have been pretty thorough in ironing out the faults in these ones. There's a Spider (II I think) head in one of the practice rooms I do maintenance for and despite the abuse it must get it's never failed in all the time they've had it.

Fretwired

guitarfishbay said:

Fretwired said:

Low price market? The Helix isn't in the low price market.

This is technology - Yamaha's buying power (for processors etc), manufacturing skills and tech resources can help Line 6 to produce an Axe FX destroyer at a much lower price point. Line 6 created Helix on their own .. the next generation tech will be made with help from Yamaha. I could see the Axe FX as a dead product unless a company like Roland buys them.

The Spider is in the lower end of the market, as are multiple other products from L6 and Yamaha.  Fractal only do high end.  Agree that the Helix is high end - and the AX8 is Fractals competing product in the price bracket, not the Axe FX 2.

The portion of the market that Fractal and Kemper aim at - pro recording/pro touring, does support high end products.  Helix is L6's first foray into it in several years, proof will be in the pudding if those people switch to L6 units.  I haven't seen it happening in any large numbers yet but that isn't to say it won't happen in time.

If L6 Yamaha make that quality at a lower price point then it isn't just Fractal who are in trouble, most traditional amp companies would be too.  This is just going to be the evolution of equipment in general and it isn't necessarily L6/Yamaha who'll get there first.

Line 6 is clever with the Spider range - they essentially recycle existing tech with a few added bells and whistles. They got great mileage out of the original POD tones. This new range will sell well .. a 240 watt stereo amp .. :-)

The Axe FX is expensive as the company does sell many. It's the flagship system to beat and Line 6 doesn't have anything to touch it right now. However it's just tech - a big company like Yamaha could replicate something like it at a lower price point. For example, the processors in the Axe FX will be expensive as not many units are sold. However, Yamaha are big in the digital keyboard market making high-end synths and digital pianos and the pro audio market. Theoretically they could get economies of scale in production to produce great sounding systems at the competitive £1K+ price point. Would they be as good as an Axe FX? I don't know.

A lot of the early Helix adopters were Line 6 HD users who saw Helix as a natural upgrade so there's clearly a market at that price point. I doubt anyone traded in their Axe FX 2 for a Helix - different markets. But tech improves - the PODxt was an improvement over the POD 2 yet cost about the same when it was released.

guitarfishbay

It isn't just hardware though. The skill of the people programming it is still one of the most important factors. You only have to look at the recording plugin market to see that in action - the 'cult of cliff' is the cult of Steven Slate/Fabrice Gabriel in that world - more so as those guys do lots of video PR, with single arm judo chop action (watch any new Slate product release)

Fretwired

guitarfishbay said:

It isn't just hardware though. The skill of the people programming it is still one of the most important factors. You only have to look at the recording plugin market to see that in action - the 'cult of cliff' is the cult of Steven Slate/Fabrice Gabriel in that world - more so as those guys do lots of video PR, with single arm judo chop action (watch any new Slate product release)

I don't disagree and I'm not knocking Cliff and co. Line 6 also have clever people and I use quite a few Yamaha plugins which are top notch so the talent is there - great news for guitarists. It will be interesting to see what happens. Of no interest to me right now as I've gone old school with an amp and pedals.

Wished some of this stuff had been around when I was starting out ... a 15 year old me would have loved a Spider amp.

ennspek

It's easy to be sniffy about these but most of aren't really the target market. If you're 16 and this is your first amp I'd imagine it's heaven on earth.
They will sell by the absolute shed load and probably quite rightly.

DrJazzTap

It'll sound better than the trace Elliot supertramp 80w combo I had when I was 16!

guitarfishbay

I had a 1x15 bass amp and a Digitech RP100, until I got a Line 6 Flextone 2 2x12

bingefeller

ennspek said:

It's easy to be sniffy about these but most of aren't really the target market. If you're 16 and this is your first amp I'd imagine it's heaven on earth.
They will sell by the absolute shed load and probably quite rightly.

I bet if you dialled it in right it would sound good.  The tone on that YT vid sounds terrible.  

I can imagine a lot of jazz players will love this amp.  

rossyamaha

Hi chaps!

Right I'm currently balls deep in launch day shennanigans but will get back to this later.

Firstly, yes the video is a bit corporate. Pretend it doesn't exist. The amps are much better in person. Obviously it's a significant upgrade from the 4 and the wireless connectivity lets you do something pretty cool to say the least. There will be a head version too but we won't see that until Jan next year. Demos (good ones) will be out shortly. 

See you in a bit. ;-)

paul_c2

So......when are they sending a model to review to Glenn Fricker (Spectre Sound Studios)?

EricTheWeary

Having seen guitarists use Spiders in bands they are so lost in the mix . However, I think that's partly to do with using more complex tones that make you sound like Brian May at home but just don't work in many band settings. Having used a couple in rehearsal rooms there didn't seem to be an issue if you kept to basic tones. Quite a nice clean, IIRC, probably lacking in dynamic range as has been said but how many folk stick a compressor on their clean tones to get that punch the Spider delivers. 

Not great on the aesthetics though...

tampadragon

I'm quite excited about this as my Christmas present this year looks to be a new modelling practice amp, or a MFX with on board amp sims. I currently use a THR10C at home and love it, but want more tonal variety etc and have been looking at buying a Marshall Code 25, but this could well be a contender instead as I've had Line 6 Stuff before (Audio Interface, Pod, Pod Farm 2) and have liked them.
I was just going to order a Code, but now I may have to seek out a local store and try out both. I'm a below average player and crap at tone finding, so something with presets and shit loads of online tones absolutely suits me.

professorben

guitarfishbay said:

bingefeller said:

The youtube demo sounds.......not so good.

Maynehead said:

All that money spent on development and still sounds worse than a Metal Zone.

It sounds exactly like a Metalzone.

I honestly think this video should be pulled.  Sorry to whoever worked on it, but it really doesn't sound good and won't help sell to this target market

We are hardly the target market, it's sounds just like it's supposed to, they will sell thousands.......
honestly, look how many guys on here rate Lazy J.......
players like ourselves fall FAR outside the Spider demographic.

Jetfire

Im interested to hear what this sounds like in he flesh .. if theyve dropped the "CRAZY" metal settings or whatever it was and are heading straight into the Fender Mustang amp range, this could be very interesting... 

menamestom

I don't think there is a definitive market for these kind of things anymore.  They have grown up a little and could easy partner somebody's Two Rock/Lazy J/Carr etc as the lightweight amp that can do a bit of everything and has silent practice facilities.  Roll in acoustic options and there's a whole new market.   

Re the video, doesn't put me off in the slightest and I'm sure Line 6 will know most of us hard to please folks will buy by either trying the amp in a shop or looking on youtube for people playing something a bit more tasteful on them.  By it's definition an amp that can do lots of things can have lots of target markets and I wouldn't expect a short launch day promo video to represent all these or even try to.

Luminous

Another vote here for the Spiders having an undeserved bad rep. I'm  thinking a lot of them are dialed in badly. If I go into a rehearsal room I will plug into the spider way before I'd plug into a Marshall.

Plectrum

Jetfire said:

Im interested to hear what this sounds like in he flesh .. if theyve dropped the "CRAZY" metal settings or whatever it was and are heading straight into the Fender Mustang amp range, this could be very interesting... 

From what I hear it's that awful, crazy metal sound which sells it. Bad as it is, teenage boys love it and they're the target audience really.