Spiritual but not religious?

Megii

I hesitate to post about this, maybe because there's a risk I'll look like an idiot, but that may be a certainty anyhow.  I do think about this stuff anyhow, and just wonder if it resonates with any other forum members.

Thing is, I'm pretty much an atheist, or very much at the far atheist end of the agnostic spectrum, and I'm not generally keen on all the "new age" stuff re crystal healing, ESP, belief in the paranormal etc., etc.. I'm an enthusiast for scientific progress and discovery, and also interested in cosmology and philosophy, especially as it relates to the nature of reality and consciousness. (I rather like the mathematical universe position put forward by Max Tegmark, where he argues that everything basically is maths - just as an aside and FWIW.).

But at the same time, I am a musician (albeit just semi-pro) and dare I say I consider myself a kind of artist. As regards music, both listened to and created, I'm concerned with atmosphere, mood, feeling... all these kind of things. The world seems full of stuff - places and events - that resonate with me in that way. And the scientific view of the universe, at least as far as it's got so far, has so little to say about all that. And then there's the question of conciousness, which in light of quantum physics, seems like it may be fundamentally bound up with the nature of reality. Not that we know what reality actually is (if indeed it's even possible that it makes sense to try to answer that question) - it seems that our brains create a kind of  image of reality, but we don't know what reality really is. The colour red for example - I know what I mean by that, and I can visualize it in my head easily, but it's not real. Electromagnetic radiation (whatever that is) of a certain frequency hits the cells in my retina, and that ends up with my brain somehow forming an image with that colour. So it's "in my head" (whatever that means) and not actual reality, and yet it seems so real - I find it very hard to say that "red" is just an illusion. 

So, basically what's it all about please - life, the universe, and everything??  

fretmeister

You really need a wank.

Megii

Thank you, that was the kind of response I thought I might get on here @fretmeister - does no one wish to discuss matters philosophical? 

Drew_TNBD

Megii said:

Thank you, that was the kind of response I thought I might get on here @fretmeister - does no one wish to discuss matters philosophical? 

Mate... you're on a forum full of utter failures... what are you expecting?! Find a poetry forum to join!

octatonic

Try reading "Waking Up: Searching for Spirituality Without Religion" by Sam Harris.

It is a good read.

Megii

Drew_TNBD said:

Megii said:

Thank you, that was the kind of response I thought I might get on here @fretmeister - does no one wish to discuss matters philosophical? 

Mate... you're on a forum full of utter failures... what are you expecting?! Find a poetry forum to join!

Cheers @Drew_TNBD - of course you're right (and I am one such failure) - it's Sunday evening and I'm a bit bored, you know how it is... Not quite sure if I'm ready for poetry forums just yet.

fretmeister

Megii said:

Thank you, that was the kind of response I thought I might get on here @fretmeister - does no one wish to discuss matters philosophical? 

It's a Sunday afternoon.

Always ask such things on a Monday when people are at work, trying to not do work. You'll get loads of answers then.

Chalky

By definition, science is not real. Its only a set of constructs and models, some of which are very accurate and some less so.

Trying to reconcile science with your life experience is like trying to explain a wank using algebra. So try this experiment - follow @fretmeister's advice, then, using only standard notation, describe it....

Megii

octatonic said:

Try reading "Waking Up: Searching for Spirituality Without Religion" by Sam Harris.

It is a good read.

Ok, why not, I will, cheers for that.

fretmeister said:

Megii said:

Thank you, that was the kind of response I thought I might get on here @fretmeister - does no one wish to discuss matters philosophical? 

It's a Sunday afternoon.

Always ask such things on a Monday when people are at work, trying to not do work. You'll get loads of answers then.

Good point.

fretmeister

Chalky said:

By definition, science is not real. Its only a set of constructs and models, some of which are very accurate and some less so.

Trying to reconcile science with your life experience is like trying to explain a wank using algebra. So try this experiment - follow @fretmeister's advice, then, using only standard notation, describe it....

pp
p
f
ff
rall
fffffffffffffff

octatonic

Chalky said:

Trying to reconcile science with your life experience is like trying to explain a wank using algebra. 

Square root?

TheBlueWolf

@Megii ;

I consider myself to be spiritual. It's a part of me I've been working on the last three and a bit years.

Although I believe in God, it's more from a Higher Power Universal Caretaker, rather than a religious deity. I don't call BS on science as it has and continues to prove a lot, but several things have happened in my life that I can't pass off as luck, shit happens, etc. I try and avoid David Wolfe tin foil hat crap too.

This thread may well descend into anarchy, like similar threads, so I'll PM you

octatonic

Megii said:

octatonic said:

Try reading "Waking Up: Searching for Spirituality Without Religion" by Sam Harris.

It is a good read.

Ok, why not, I will, cheers for that.

I'm a hard line atheist type and I got quite a bit out of reading it.
I'm still not what I would call a 'spiritual' person, mind.

Megii

TheBlueWolf said:

@Megii ;

I consider myself to be spiritual. It's a part of me I've been working on the last three and a bit years.

Although I believe in God, it's more from a Higher Power Universal Caretaker, rather than a religious deity. I don't call BS on science as it has and continues to prove a lot, but several things have happened in my life that I can't pass off as luck, shit happens, etc. I try and avoid David Wolfe tin foil hat crap too.

This thread may well descend into anarchy, like similar threads, so I'll PM you

Cheers for that @TheBlueWolf - I would be genuinely interested in what you have to say, although it seems to me unlikely that you will be able to persuade me re the whole God thing, and I say that in full understanding that "God" can mean different things to different people. As to the anarchy I'm inviting, I don't really mind at the moment to be honest, a bit of that's fine.

Sambostar

I dig what he's on about, everyone has a spirit and energy about them, sometimes people all buy bananas on the same day and nobody knows why.  Everyone more or less reacts similarly to insular situations that they are all exposed to, but where the sense of order is suddenly lost.

Basically we're like dogs, pack animals, we have a common feelings, like a sixth sense and energy that connects us all and everything around us and place, it's a bit like Avatar.  That's my analysis.  It is spiritual but there's no god, nor any hierarchy as such as we are so dynamic and complicated it's constantly changing.

Sometimes you can just walk in and light up a room, sometimes nobody wants to be near you.

Sometimes you can understand what others are saying without even having to hear them speak, sometimes they speak so eloquently but you just can't understand a word they are on about.

If you get rat arsed a lot every night down the local pub you basically have more than the equivalent of a Masters and a lifetimes experience in philosophy and psychology.  Lots of acid helps as well, but really only at first before it becomes more boring and recreational than beer.

As for whether it's an illusion or not, that's for you to decide.  Every sees out of their own eyes.

Go out and pick some mushrooms and get far out or have a smoke.

It's a bit like the force too. the more you know about yourself and the world and are experienced with others, the less you need to speak to get things done, but sometimes for some random reason you wake up feeling great and other days like crap and it's nothing you can have and catalogue away because it's constantly changing..

But mostly it's because we're like dogs and are absorbing the energies in the environment and from other living things.

Stoned and inebriated, euphoric and depressed dogs.

Besides, I'm colourblind so I probably can't help you.

TheBlueWolf

@Megii I have no intention of trying to convince you there's a God. I was thinking more along the lines of an exchange of ideas

Megii

octatonic said:

Megii said:

octatonic said:

Try reading "Waking Up: Searching for Spirituality Without Religion" by Sam Harris.

It is a good read.

Ok, why not, I will, cheers for that.

I'm a hard line atheist type and I got quite a bit out of reading it.
I'm still not what I would call a 'spiritual person, mind.

I don't really like the "spiritual" word either - I think it's vague and poorly understood really. I've read the Dawkins God Delusion book a couple of times, and I suppose find him broadly persuasive. Sam Harris seems like a good choice for another author anyhow.

Megii

TheBlueWolf said:

@Megii I have no intention of trying to convince you there's a God. I was thinking more along the lines of an exchange of ideas

And why not - I can only hope my ideas and abilities to express them are up to the job....

AliGorie

when I hear (what I think is) great music I experience - something.
But I couldn't put a name to it.
just sayin

earwighoney

Megii said:

Question - basically what's it all about please - life, the universe.. ?

Answer - Having a wank. 

richardhomer

AliGorie said:

when I hear (what I think is) great music I experience - something.
But I couldn't put a name to it.
just sayin

Yep - same here - that hairs in the arms thing - it seems like some kind of spiritual connection....

I'd actually like to believe in God - I think a religion would help me. The logical part of my mind convinces me there isn't one - though 'agnostic' is probably how I'd describe myself.