Spiritual but not religious?

Cirrus

goat said:

Best plan IMO is to get humanity spread out a bit so a catastrophe on Earth wont end the species and maybe we'll get a grasp on it in a few millenia. Also, if at all possible, dont be a dick.

I vote we leave Drew on earth with Sambostar. But first we must find sambostar and bring him to earth.

Wazmeister

For me, there are forces outside of the scope and size of just me...

There seems to be a 'natural' order to the world; 'natural' rules/consequences/outcomes, again that are outside my simple positive thinking.

e.g.) the universal truth - you reap what you sow.

The degree to which you live by these, swim in these streams (or whatever analogy you wish to use) determines how the world and your world evolve... maybe...

I believe in an external force, which I call God.

All hard to describe and as ever, ymmv.

Reverend

Drew_TNBD said:

I don't need a god. At one point in my life I did need Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible though.

Its a 60's self help book. 

with cool outfits. 


and boobs if needed. 

ourmaninthenorth

I strive for the comfort of faith...it remains an ambition, though no longer a distant one.

My lived experience poses questions. 

Megii

Reverend said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I don't need a god. At one point in my life I did need Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible though.

Its a 60's self help book. 

with cool outfits. 


and boobs if needed. 

Sounds quite good, can you still get it?

ourmaninthenorth said:

I strive for the comfort of faith...it remains an ambition, though no longer a distant one.

My lived experience poses questions. 

...he said enigmatically...  But can we really choose what to believe? And should we if so? You stated ambition does seem to raise those questions for me.

And then going on, I do wonder, in my case at least, how having a belief in a God would help - I guess for some it does provide a sense of meaning and comfort, but I would still want to know what the actual point of God was - indeed, can anything, including God, ultimately be said to have any meaning at all?

I suppose I'm getting towards existentialism or something here. And just to add that it was definitely not my intention when starting this thread to provoke any kind of God vs Science argument - more just a bit of philosophical discussion.

Drew_TNBD

I really hate the logic of 'my experience leads me to questions' - just because you cannot answer something doesn't mean the answer is automatically of a spiritual or supernatural nature.

Sporky

Drew_TNBD said:

I really hate the logic of 'my experience leads me to questions' - just because you cannot answer something doesn't mean the answer is automatically of a spiritual or supernatural nature.

That's a relief. I was about to start asking a higher power for help with the GCHQ puzzle book.

fretmeister

Sporky said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I really hate the logic of 'my experience leads me to questions' - just because you cannot answer something doesn't mean the answer is automatically of a spiritual or supernatural nature.

That's a relief. I was about to start asking a higher power for help with the GCHQ puzzle book.

I remember feeling that way when about 10 years ago I had a look at NASA's astronaut application stuff for a bit of fun.

Chalky

@Megii said "But can we really choose what to believe? And should we if so?"

Of course you can. Even people who believe in science are making that choice.  Science is not only a belief system, but a very recent one too.  It is the latest truth. When you consider modern man has existed for about 200,000 years and civilisation for 7,000 years, its amazing that we got all the way to a few hundred years ago without any science!

fretmeister

Science is not a belief system. It's a testing system that provides results you either expected or didn't expect.

What you do with the results might be part of a belief system, but the testing method is not. And it's not recent. Every time someone thought "I wonder" and tested it, or did something twice and got different results and wondered why - that's science.

goat

Agree with fretmeister. Science is either provable experimentally or its a theory (a possible explanation), either way, "belief" doesnt come into it. Thats kind of the whole point.

Chalky

fretmeister said:

Science is not a belief system. It's a testing system that provides results you either expected or didn't expect.

What you do with the results might be part of a belief system, but the testing method is not. And it's not recent. Every time someone thought "I wonder" and tested it, or did something twice and got different results and wondered why - that's science.

Oh dear, a science nutter! You do know science is not a mystical entity, just a term constructed by some people to mean a particular area of study?

Sporky

Chalky said:

Oh dear, a science nutter! You do know science is not a mystical entity, just a term constructed by some people to mean a particular area of study?

You do know that science refers to two things, right? The scientific method, and the body of knowledge derived through that method? You can look both up on the inferweb (which wouldn't exist without both).

goat

Reminds me of this:

ourmaninthenorth

Drew_TNBD said:

I really hate the logic of 'my experience leads me to questions' - just because you cannot answer something doesn't mean the answer is automatically of a spiritual or supernatural nature.

Why, doesn't your existence lead you to question anything? Spiritual and supernatural are your words, not mine. 

Rather than enigmatically, let me state emphatically, there are things in my lived experience, nobody else's, that I choose to assign to the "faith" category. It has become relevant to me. However I'm not a double glazing salesman, I'm not trying to convince anybody of nothing...merely sharing my experiences. Hate the logic ( again your word ) it makes not a blind bit of difference that you don't share my position..why should it? 

Unless of course you're God...then I'm fucked. 

Chalky

Sporky said:

Chalky said:

Oh dear, a science nutter! You do know science is not a mystical entity, just a term constructed by some people to mean a particular area of study?

You do know that science refers to two things, right? The scientific method, and the body of knowledge derived through that method? You can look both up on the inferweb (which wouldn't exist without both).



I do know, thank you. But the line

"Every time someone thought "I wonder" and tested it, or did something twice and got different results and wondered why - that's science" is preposterously claiming all inquisitive activity since the dawn of time is the domain of science.  Go check on your "inferweb" about Kepler's motivation for his work and his dung-cart conclusions. 

But then don't - your "Science is not a belief system" arrogance would probably tell Kepler he was wrong about his thinking...

fretmeister

Chalky said:

Sporky said:

Chalky said:

Oh dear, a science nutter! You do know science is not a mystical entity, just a term constructed by some people to mean a particular area of study?

You do know that science refers to two things, right? The scientific method, and the body of knowledge derived through that method? You can look both up on the inferweb (which wouldn't exist without both).



I do know, thank you. But the line

"Every time someone thought "I wonder" and tested it, or did something twice and got different results and wondered why - that's science" is preposterously claiming all inquisitive activity since the dawn of time is the domain of science.  Go check on your "inferweb" about Kepler's motivation for his work and his dung-cart conclusions. 

But then don't - your "Science is not a belief system" arrogance would probably tell Kepler he was wrong about his thinking...

You are confusing the reason for wanting an answer (inspiration) with method.

Sporky

Chalky said:

your "Science is not a belief system" arrogance would probably tell Kepler he was wrong about his thinking...

You're so busy being angry you didn't notice that it wasn't me that said that (though fret is right, of course).

Besides which, saying "science is not a belief system" isn't arrogance, it's a statement of fact, with which you agreed earlier in your post. You feeling all right?

Drew_TNBD

ourmaninthenorth said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I really hate the logic of 'my experience leads me to questions' - just because you cannot answer something doesn't mean the answer is automatically of a spiritual or supernatural nature.

Why, doesn't your existence lead you to question anything?

No. I already have all the answers.

ourmaninthenorth

Drew_TNBD said:

ourmaninthenorth said:

Drew_TNBD said:

I really hate the logic of 'my experience leads me to questions' - just because you cannot answer something doesn't mean the answer is automatically of a spiritual or supernatural nature.

Why, doesn't your existence lead you to question anything?

No. I already have all the answers.

Ok, what number am I thinking of..?