If 'The Origin of Species' is correct then why?

ICBM

Chimps aren't far behind at all - less than a 2% difference in genetic makeup. But that little difference has huge consequences. As already said, there were other proto-humans who were even closer, which are now extinct - almost certainly because we eliminated them as unwelcome competition - the most recent was Neanderthal Man.

ToneControl

Sporky said:

RandallFlagg said:

So has our accelerated metal ability upset the theory of evolution as we now can change the environment around us so dramatically?

It will have shifted the selection criteria, so we're less restricted by natural selection and more by other factors.

However, as pretty much everyone can have kids now you're right that evolution probably isn't doing much for us. Bear in mind though that it operates over very, very long periods of time - longer than civilisation has existed, fer example.

One other reason why no other species has hit the same heights as us is that it may not be advantageous. Being conscious must have helped us survive and pass on our genes. It might be a hindrance for other species in other environments.

Apparently, the reason the Dutch are now all much taller than  their neighbours is down to a preference for very tall partners, and tall people having more kids, which is the opposite of typical  behaviour

So  conscious  actions are now the dominant force in human evolution, part of that being medical interventions

TheMarlin

It's a theory.  It's taught as fact, but it's still a theory. 

ToneControl

ICBM said:

Chimps aren't far behind at all - less than a 2% difference in genetic makeup. But that little difference has huge consequences. As already said, there were other proto-humans who were even closer, which are now extinct - almost certainly because we eliminated them as unwelcome competition - the most recent was Neanderthal Man.

5% of non-African DNA is Neanderthal , they reckon.  Plenty of interbreeding, Some theories are they were assimilated.
My Jamaican mate thought this amusing, I think since we have always used "neanderthal" as an insult
but since then they've postulated that Neanderthals were also intelligent:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/8898321/Neanderthals-were-too-smart-for-their-own-good.html
 

stimpsonslostson

TheMarlin said:

It's a theory.  It's taught as fact, but it's still a theory. 

Please let's not go there. 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

Hertz32

TheMarlin said:

It's a theory.  It's taught as fact, but it's still a theory. 

The theory of gravity is still a theory...
I aknowledge your right to not trust theories as fact and await your forum posts for help as you are thrown from the earths surface by colossal centripetal forces as our entire solar system dissolves into an uncoordinated mess and our gas giants dissolved into nothing... 


Dont go there, few things make me genuinely angry but wilful ignorance is one.

ToneControl

http://phys.org/news/2012-03-evidence-neanderthals-boats-modern-humans.html

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/defy-stereotypes.html

and read the transcript of this show (or use VPN to watch it):
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/decoding-neanderthals.html

ICBM

ToneControl said:

5% of non-African DNA is Neanderthal , they reckon.  Plenty of interbreeding, Some theories are they were assimilated.

My Jamaican mate thought this amusing, I think since we have always used "neanderthal" as an insult
but since then they've postulated that Neanderthals were also intelligent:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/8898321/Neanderthals-were-too-smart-for-their-own-good.html
 

Neanderthals actually had slightly larger brains on average than modern humans, not smaller - although that doesn't necessarily mean they were more intelligent.

I don't doubt at all that they died out partly by assimilation - that's typical modern human behaviour when one group wins a war against another as well.

octatonic

This thread is a wonderful display of anti-science 'my ignorance is as valuable as your knowledge' type thinking.
Some of you need to go back to school.

RandallFlagg

ToneControl said:

RandallFlagg said:

So has our accelerated metal ability upset the theory of evolution as we now can change the environment around us so dramatically? Rather than it taking millions of years for us to adapt to the environment we can change the environment to suit us in a very short space of time, how does the human continue to evolve and in what direction if we keep changing the environment we are in?

my metal ability has waned as I've mellowed with age 

dementia?

Reverend

octatonic said:

This thread is a wonderful display of anti-science 'my ignorance is as valuable as your knowledge' type thinking.
Some of you need to go back to school.

Something something entitled to my opinion something something

Sambostar

It's only because of a shared history, memory and language and decent nutrition and logistics systems.  I'd challenge anyone who was brought up in the woods by wolves to do anything more than set a few traps, that is if they survived to adulthood at all. 

With education being drummed and expectation and social and communal order drummed into us at such an early age we do take collective memory, be it medicine, technology, tooling and books for granted.  Hence why some people believe we are higher beings.  We are no more intelligent than we were a thousand years ago, just that we have a massive head start and are well fed.

When the first English settlers arrived in what is now Virginia, the native Americans towered above them in height because they had far superior nutrition.  Most of the colonising settlers died although the native Americans did help a load of them.

I think if you think that humans are vastly more capable I would say you are far too wrapped up in the moment and believing of modern culture. 

You have to step aside, remember your history and think objectively about what we have really achieved and what it really amounts to.  Nothing much has changed in the world in thousands of years, just that the mechanisms for delivery have been updated, are more efficient and more reliable. 

But if you still want to believe we are higher beings with your insular blinkers on, then go ahead, you are free to do so, like those silicon valley scientists who theorize that the whole world is just a simulation. 

Free your mind.

I can quite imagine the Dutch selectively breeding for height characteristics, after all the place is so bloody flat.

Modern technology and communications and culture has done far more to destroy the numbers and prolong the suffering of other humans than it has any other animals.

Sambostar

We still rely on fossil fuels, electricity and internal combustion engines.  If you really believe the tech hype get off your Xbox or whatever it is.  Working class men doing national service in REME in the early '50's aged 17 were leagues ahead in terms of education than your typical man in his 40's these days and yet there is still famine and poverty and only notions of free choice and freedom in society.

So next time you see a wild chimpanzee rip the arms off a baby chimpanzee and eat it or a bunch of ants, don't be so quick to assume we are leagues above them.  We are just animals the same.  Paedophilia, killing, torture, genocide, exploitation, cruelty.   It's all still with us and an integral part of our primate evolution.  Think about what motivates you and how willing your really are to share and how you justify the importance of your own existence over overs.  Don't believe the cleanliness is godliness brigade.  Hitler had it sussed and remember he served in WW1.

ICBM

Sambostar said:

When the first English settlers arrived in what is now Virginia, the native Americans towered above them in height because they had far superior nutrition.  Most of the colonising settlers died although the native Americans did help a load of them.

A serious tactical mistake, with hindsight...

Sambostar

Lol.......Lol

ToneControl

RandallFlagg said:

ToneControl said:

RandallFlagg said:

So has our accelerated metal ability upset the theory of evolution as we now can change the environment around us so dramatically? Rather than it taking millions of years for us to adapt to the environment we can change the environment to suit us in a very short space of time, how does the human continue to evolve and in what direction if we keep changing the environment we are in?

my metal ability has waned as I've mellowed with age 

dementia?

just got more chilled from early 20s

hywelg

Very minor changes in physical attributes gave us huge advantages. opposing thumbs for one. We then learnt how to use tools to increase our advantage and we're able to pass that on to successive generations.  

The biggest advantage came from the ability to record things for future generations so that they each had an advantage in knowledge. That has increased exponentially in the last 2000 years. 

Sporky

TheMarlin said:

It's a theory.  It's taught as fact, but it's still a theory. 

Evolution is both an observed fact and a thoroughly proven scientific theory that explains that observed fact. The only arguments now are about tiny details.

Emp_Fab

ICBM said:

Chimps aren't far behind at all - less than a 2% difference in genetic makeup. But that little difference has huge consequences. As already said, there were other proto-humans who were even closer, which are now extinct - almost certainly because we eliminated them as unwelcome competition - the most recent was Neanderthal Man.

Maynehead

There has been at least 4 different species of humans (the genus homo) according to fossil records, and modern humans are an amalgamation of 3 of them, according to DNA analysis, so it not as clear cut as one species being superior to every other.

Besides, life has existed on earth for 3.5 billion years, and it is only within the last 3.5 million years that ancestors of man started to use stone tools. We are already seeing tool use in apes, so if humans didn't exist, a few million years from now apes could well be the ones making iPads and flying to Mars.