If 'The Origin of Species' is correct then why?

viz

RandallFlagg said:

ToneControl said:

RandallFlagg said:

So has our accelerated metal ability upset the theory of evolution as we now can change the environment around us so dramatically? Rather than it taking millions of years for us to adapt to the environment we can change the environment to suit us in a very short space of time, how does the human continue to evolve and in what direction if we keep changing the environment we are in?

my metal ability has waned as I've mellowed with age 

dementia?

Brain Dead?

hywelg

Sporky said:

However, as pretty much everyone can have kids now you're right that evolution probably isn't doing much for us. Bear in mind though that it operates over very, very long periods of time - longer than civilisation has existed, fer example.

That's not entirely true. It has been shown that evolutionary change can occur within three generations. IIRC it was done in an experiment with wolves changing their behaviour to become more like dogs. 

Evolution in humans has slowed because the pressures on change are not from the changes in the physical environment. Human intervention in survivability is removing the culling of the weakest. The ability  to procreate is not dependant on being  the strongest either physically or mentally and human morality is probably interfering with the ability of the species to develop. 

martinw

You think human beings are advanced?
The species that gives us Donald Trump, the people that would vote for him, shopping at B&M, mass obesity, creationists, religious fanatics, rejection of science, an ability to destroy the planet yet an inability to address simple issues, greed.....I could go on. And on.
Meanwhile most other species live in harmony with their environment.
Actually, I'd vote for Trumpy. The sooner he kicks off WWIII and gives the planet a fresh start with a truly superior species, the better. Some sort of peace-loving dolphin maybe.
And OMG I'm not even joking. Literally.

ToneControl

Sambostar said:

When the first English settlers arrived in what is now Virginia, the native Americans towered above them in height because they had far superior nutrition.  Most of the colonising settlers died although the native Americans did help a load of them.

an amazing article:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2004/04/05/the-height-gap

ICBM

Maynehead said:

We are already seeing tool use in apes, so if humans didn't exist, a few million years from now apes could well be the ones making iPads and flying to Mars.

http://apemania.com/AUTHENTIC_RESTORATIONS/Milo/M10.jpg

martinw

ICBM said:

Maynehead said:

We are already seeing tool use in apes, so if humans didn't exist, a few million years from now apes could well be the ones making iPads and flying to Mars.

http://apemania.com/AUTHENTIC_RESTORATIONS/Milo/M10.jpg

Yep. After we blow it up, damn us all to hell. 

ToneControl

martinw said:

You think human beings are advanced?
The species that gives us Donald Trump, the people that would vote for him, shopping at B&M, mass obesity, creationists, religious fanatics, rejection of science, an ability to destroy the planet yet an inability to address simple issues, greed.....I could go on. And on.
Meanwhile most other species live in harmony with their environment.
Actually, I'd vote for Trumpy. The sooner he kicks off WWIII and gives the planet a fresh start with a truly superior species, the better. Some sort of peace-loving dolphin maybe.
And OMG I'm not even joking. Literally.

your sales might go down, but  some dolphins can play bass:

http://image.shutterstock.com/z/stock-vector-illustration-of-dolphin-playing-guitar-276757223.jpg

Sambostar

Non daywalking tall, fair skinned Redheads and Strawberry Blondes have the most Neanderthal DNA along with Brazilians.  Word is that the first colonisers of the UK were tall with Redhair and fair skin.

So if you meet a Redhead with a Brazilian, exercise extreme caution.

Anyway, last time I checked we still hadn't sorted out sustainable energy, population control, war, famine, equality, democracy or going to Mars or even landing on the moon (Again?).  Cue the conspiracy theorists.  As a species we are held back by our basic primate needs and drive, we won't evolve, it will all end in tears.  We have become niche and specialised.

People see technological evolution as a premise for human evolution, all I see is a bunch of deluded people around a pond fishing for the moon.

If you are objective, then you be hard pushed to spot the difference between Hitler's ultimate aims for Europe and the aims of the Kalgeri Plan for a European project or even the objectively and rational scientific analysis offered up by Agenda 21 in the early '90's. 

Young liberals buy into this, but they effectively don't realise is they are buying into Nazism and globalisation, nor the implications for humanity, nor how it goes against their core liberal belief of cultural, ethnic and racial, or should I say genetic diversity.   Hitler was the first to register and regulate private gun ownership. 

The human race will effectively amount to nothing, but we do need genetic diversity in order to keep it alive until the day the giant meteor wipes it out.

axisus

Some of you are forgetting, a monkey made it into space 12 years before us humans. I think that says something.

viz

^

Sambostar

ToneControl said:

Sambostar said:

When the first English settlers arrived in what is now Virginia, the native Americans towered above them in height because they had far superior nutrition.  Most of the colonising settlers died although the native Americans did help a load of them.

an amazing article:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2004/04/05/the-height-gap

Interesting, although I don't think that height alone is necessarily a good thing for a primate that still hasn't properly evolved to hold it's guts in from the effects of gravity and still has a spine that is basically evolved to be horizontal.

EricTheWeary

The classic experiment was Russian red foxes, took multiple generations of selective breeding to arrive at a pet fox. Three is a bit optimistic.
Selective breeding is a fairly common process, although it doesn't always work out as intended ( you can't breed labradoodles for example although people have been trying to get that to work for decades). 


hywelg said:

Sporky said:

However, as pretty much everyone can have kids now you're right that evolution probably isn't doing much for us. Bear in mind though that it operates over very, very long periods of time - longer than civilisation has existed, fer example.

That's not entirely true. It has been shown that evolutionary change can occur within three generations. IIRC it was done in an experiment with wolves changing their behaviour to become more like dogs. 

Evolution in humans has slowed because the pressures on change are not from the changes in the physical environment. Human intervention in survivability is removing the culling of the weakest. The ability  to procreate is not dependant on being  the strongest either physically or mentally and human morality is probably interfering with the ability of the species to develop. 

quarky

RandallFlagg said:

If The Origin of Species is correct why have we got one species that has evolved to a far higher level of capability that any other buy such a huge amount?

There were several other human species such as Neanderthals, they were just wiped out.

Danny1969

There was a guy, Dutch I think,  who wrote a series of books about aliens actually kicking off the human species on this planet. I like to think he's right as it explains a lot

I mean kicking off as starting off, not literally 

Sambostar

hywelg said:

Evolution in humans has slowed because the pressures on change are not from the changes in the physical environment. Human intervention in survivability is removing the culling of the weakest. The ability  to procreate is not dependant on being  the strongest either physically or mentally and human morality is probably interfering with the ability of the species to develop. 

Exactly.  Case in point, I have no children (That I'm aware of).

We are already developing an Indian cast system in this country through selective breeding driven by money and class rather than physical or mental attributes.

We have academic or intellectual tall skinny people with skinny arms, skinny legs, large brains, pot bellies and double chins and a class of agricultural fitters and self seekers.

Ner, I honestly don't really believe that crap to be honest.  Genetic diversity is a wonderful thing and it's more nuture and lifestyle over nature and the pool is probably as mixed in all incomes, as for the richest selecting designer babies with blonde hair from the same donor, well Werner Goldberg was a great example of how the delusion of racial purity has nothing to do with genetics.

But we have to keep it varied, otherwise we'll all die from malaria or from Vitamin D deficiency.  The powers that be don't want this though, they want a monotype.  Monotypes fail even if you pump them full of pesticides.

And why do gingers keep popping up everywhere every few decades?

Ha Ha

Myranda

Sambostar said:

ToneControl said:

Sambostar said:

When the first English settlers arrived in what is now Virginia, the native Americans towered above them in height because they had far superior nutrition.  Most of the colonising settlers died although the native Americans did help a load of them.

an amazing article:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2004/04/05/the-height-gap

Interesting, although I don't think that height alone is necessarily a good thing for a primate that still hasn't properly evolved to hold it's guts in from the effects of gravity and still has a spine that is basically evolved to be horizontal.

But, in nature one group being taller is how evolution happens... some sort of food shortage at ground level with only food at high levels means the taller group survives ... same as a bird with a bigger beak is better at breaking harder nuts does better where only tougher nuts exist ...

the things that have made us succcesful is our hand shape - being able to use a very wide range of things to overcome our environmental restraints and our brain in combination with our vocal capabilities (we can think through things AND communicate it... and that can be remembered) ... 

There are creatures with bigger brains (dolphins for example) but they lack the same vocal range to communicate higher reasoning problems. Plenty of animals use tools, but lack the manual dexterity to use more complicated tools or the cognition to build better tools, or the communication skills to pass on to another how to design a better tool. There are species that form better communities with complex communication and socialisation, but lack the cognition to do higher reasoning and also lack hands to use tools (bees and ants).

We're unique only in having the handful of abilities that make our environment much less significant for our survival which could make recognisable speciation seem unlikely ...  

As far as other species though - we're not as fast as a LOT of animals, not as strong as a LOT of animals, can't survive temperatures as hot as many reptiles, can't do as well in drought as a host of plants, can't see as well as many creatures, can't smell as well as many many animals, can't jump high, can't swim very deep or for long at depth. Can't see infra-red or ultra-violet... don't have great teeth/claws/pincers for hunting/fighting ... we just overcome our many poor qualities with tools and group activity

RandallFlagg

Sambostar said:

hywelg said:

Evolution in humans has slowed because the pressures on change are not from the changes in the physical environment. Human intervention in survivability is removing the culling of the weakest. The ability  to procreate is not dependant on being  the strongest either physically or mentally and human morality is probably interfering with the ability of the species to develop. 

Exactly.  Case in point, I have no children (That I'm aware of).

Well that is something we can all be relieved to hear

Sambostar

RandallFlagg said:

Well that is something we can all be relieved to hear

Nazi. 

Drew_TNBD

For godsake people... can you not even start the criticism at the right fucking place?!

How about this...

NO-ONE EVER SAID THAT THE ORIGIN OF SPECIES IS CORRECT! NOT EVEN SCIENCE!

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/ist/?next=/science-nature/what-darwin-didnt-know-45637001/

There were big gaps in Darwin's knowledge. He did not know anything about 'inheritance' for example. There are mistakes in the Origin of Species and that is what science even to this very day are working on improving.

It's not a fucking bible!!

RandallFlagg

Sambostar said:

It's only because of a shared history, memory and language and decent nutrition and logistics systems.  I'd challenge anyone who was brought up in the woods by wolves to do anything more than set a few traps, that is if they survived to adulthood at all. 

With education being drummed and expectation and social and communal order drummed into us at such an early age we do take collective memory, be it medicine, technology, tooling and books for granted.  Hence why some people believe we are higher beings.  We are no more intelligent than we were a thousand years ago, just that we have a massive head start and are well fed.

When the first English settlers arrived in what is now Virginia, the native Americans towered above them in height because they had far superior nutrition.  Most of the colonising settlers died although the native Americans did help a load of them.

I think if you think that humans are vastly more capable I would say you are far too wrapped up in the moment and believing of modern culture. 

You have to step aside, remember your history and think objectively about what we have really achieved and what it really amounts to.  Nothing much has changed in the world in thousands of years, just that the mechanisms for delivery have been updated, are more efficient and more reliable. 

But if you still want to believe we are higher beings with your insular blinkers on, then go ahead, you are free to do so, like those silicon valley scientists who theorize that the whole world is just a simulation. 

Free your mind.

I can quite imagine the Dutch selectively breeding for height characteristics, after all the place is so bloody flat.

Modern technology and communications and culture has done far more to destroy the numbers and prolong the suffering of other humans than it has any other animals.

You appear to have gone beyond my initial question and taken it upon yourself to bang about humankind and your general dissatisfaction with it.

The point I am considering is why no other species developed the same accelerated mental capacity alongside this one human species. I'm not asking whether we are better or whether what we have done with that ability is right, wrong, good or bad.

Why just one species?