Why don't they paint wind generators sky blue?

ICBM

ToneControl said:

we have nearly the highest tidal range in the world,  7m I think, up to 15m

worldwide average is 2m or 3m
also we lots of coast per person, most countries have little or none
Even then ,  tide and wave are only  a small amount compared to what we need in the UK

Yes, but you're not thinking big enough.

The total solar energy falling on the Earth, the heat energy available from the Earth's core and the gravitational energy in the tides all vastly exceed any possible human energy consumption by orders of magnitude. The only problem is working out how to extract them. OK many of the means are currently beyond our technology - or more usually, politics and the will to do anything about it - but so was nuclear power a hundred years ago.

For what it's worth I personally think that fusion power on Earth will never work either. I think it's an expensive and pointless dead-end that is diverting resources and intellect away from developing better ways of harnessing the perfectly good fusion reactor that's working all by itself 93 million miles away.

robgilmo

Nuclear waste, the facts and what we, or more to the point, the only thing we can do about it.


Its called ''Into Eternity'', and its a must watch. Scary shit.

 

stickyfiddle

Renewables are the answer. This year we hit a massive milestone of solar vecoming cheaper than fossil fuels on an industrial scale. Granted it's only in those places where solar is most viable (Middle East, child, etc) but ta a huge step. 

Elon Musk has it right- the answer is efficient solar combined with better storage. Once you have those two things no one will want to have anything else. Why would they?

ICBM

stickyfiddle said:

Renewables are the answer. This year we hit a massive milestone of solar vecoming cheaper than fossil fuels on an industrial scale. Granted it's only in those places where solar is most viable (Middle East, child, etc) but ta a huge step. 

Elon Musk has it right- the answer is efficient solar combined with better storage. Once you have those two things no one will want to have anything else. Why would they?

This is it, exactly. Once economics takes over there will be no need for 'climate agreements' or moralising about 'carbon footprints' - cost will drive fossil fuel into the history books.

The people who run the oil economies of the middle east aren't stupid and will be at the forefront, too - they won't want their only source of income to disappear without using some of it to invest in the replacement.

Sporky

mart said:

So, one minute it's all water vapour and then the next it's not all water vapour but it is "perfectly safe" and "clean enough" according to some EA standard that has been negotiated with the power companies.

You do understand that Nitefly and RandallFlag aren't the same person, right?

robgilmo

We use 230 volts, we dont need 230 volts, its not about producing more energy, its about using less. 

Chalky

robgilmo said:

We use 230 volts, we dont need 230 volts, its not about producing more energy, its about using less. 

My feed is never lower than 241-247volts. Am I a wastrel? 

ICBM

robgilmo said:

We use 230 volts, we dont need 230 volts, its not about producing more energy, its about using less. 

We would actually use less if the voltage was higher so the transmission losses were lower and each house had their own stepdown transformer.

mart

Sporky said:
...

You do understand that Nitefly and RandallFlag aren't the same person, right?

Yes.

RandallFlagg

Sporky said:

mart said:

So, one minute it's all water vapour and then the next it's not all water vapour but it is "perfectly safe" and "clean enough" according to some EA standard that has been negotiated with the power companies.

You do understand that Nitefly and RandallFlag aren't the same person, right?

And EA standards are not negotiated with the power companies

mart

And knighthoods etc are given out purely on the basis of merit and never croneyism.

Sporky

mart said:

Sporky said:
...

You do understand that Nitefly and RandallFlag aren't the same person, right?

Yes.

So why are you conflating their comments as if they are the same person?

RandallFlagg

mart said:

And knighthoods etc are given out purely on the basis of merit and never croneyism.

How is that relevant to this discussion?

It is my understanding that UK emissions targets are set by the Climate Change Act 2008

Nitefly

mart said:

Nitefly said:

That stuff in the sky above Drax is just water vapour.  The big structures are cooling towers, to cool the steam which has just driven the turbines that generated the electricity.
....

So they manage to burn 9 million tonnes of coal per year and produce only ... water vapour? Wow, that's some impressive technology that manages to clean the output so much.

@mart - Yes, impressive, isn't it?  

The residual stuff from burning the coal is turned into fly-ash (which is used by the construction industry to make concrete blocks) and gypsum(also used by the construction industry to make plasterboard).

There was a very interesting article about Drax in the Railway Magazine, August 2016 issue, if you're interested.

mart

RandallFlagg said:

And EA standards are not negotiated with the power companies

RandallFlagg said:

mart said:

And knighthoods etc are given out purely on the basis of merit and never croneyism.

How is that relevant to this discussion?

It is my understanding that UK emissions targets are set by the Climate Change Act 2008

The statement about knighthoods is as touchingly naive as the statement that power companies do not influence/dictate emissions standards. Not much in parliament is decided without a lot of lobbying from industry interests.

Strangefan

I think siraxeman need to come and clarify a few points for us 

mart

Nitefly said:

@mart - Yes, impressive, isn't it?  

The residual stuff from burning the coal is turned into fly-ash (which is used by the construction industry to make concrete blocks) and gypsum(also used by the construction industry to make plasterboard).

There was a very interesting article about Drax in the Railway Magazine, August 2016 issue, if you're interested.

It is commendable that power stations are so much cleaner than they used to be. 

But it doesn't change the original point I made - I would rather live near a windmill than a power station.

ICBM

Nitefly said:

The residual stuff from burning the coal is turned into fly-ash (which is used by the construction industry to make concrete blocks) and gypsum(also used by the construction industry to make plasterboard).

What about the carbon dioxide?

Rocker

You should give living beside a 'windmill' a try @mart. Say for six months...

Chalky

Rocker said:

You should give living beside a 'windmill' a try @mart. Say for six months...

You still haven't said how near to it you are to be "beside" it or "in its shadow"....