Terry Morgan 59 Reissue

Trotter

Sporky said:

Trotter said:

unless you are on the board at Gibson, I'm not sure why you would be so worried about a guitar you are clearly not Interested in buying?

I wonder if there's a correlation with how one makes one's living.

 Care to elaborate @Sporky ? little confused by your comment.  

guitars4you

I thought this would be at the bottom of the shelf by now and covered in dust !!!!

Blaendulais

Can we summarise!

Sporky

Trotter said:

Sporky said:

Trotter said:

unless you are on the board at Gibson, I'm not sure why you would be so worried about a guitar you are clearly not Interested in buying?

I wonder if there's a correlation with how one makes one's living.

 Care to elaborate @Sporky ? little confused by your comment.  

I suspect there may be a correlation between people who see all counterfeits as wrong and people who produce material goods for a living, in the same way that I wonder if there's a correlation between people who see piracy (of media, software, fillums etc) as wrong and people who produce intellectual property for a living.

Not a dig at anyone, just to be clear.

Evilmags

Pharmacy companies all have limited time frames protecting products after which they compete with generics. An antibiotic costs a lot more to research and test than a guitar yet gets much less legal protection in terms of product.

Bridgehouse

I don't produce anything trademarked. I also don't have a problem with the "shape and form" being copied - indeed, just like pharmacies, guitar shapes like Les Pauls are old enough now...

However, my problem is a builder using the actual Gibson logo - as a fake in itself it's harmless, but if it could be sold as genuine for a lot more money to con someone, well that's different

usedtobe

Bridgehouse said:

I don't produce anything trademarked. I also don't have a problem with the "shape and form" being copied - indeed, just like pharmacies, guitar shapes like Les Pauls are old enough now...

However, my problem is a builder using the actual Gibson logo - as a fake in itself it's harmless, but if it could be sold as genuine for a lot more money to con someone, well that's different

This. 

crunchman

Bridgehouse said:

I don't produce anything trademarked. I also don't have a problem with the "shape and form" being copied - indeed, just like pharmacies, guitar shapes like Les Pauls are old enough now...

However, my problem is a builder using the actual Gibson logo - as a fake in itself it's harmless, but if it could be sold as genuine for a lot more money to con someone, well that's different

This is the problem for me.

There is a local auction house that has sold "Gibson" and "Fender" guitars at silly knockdown prices.

My mother-in-law once told me that they had some in a sale so I went and had a look.  They were utterly dreadful.  The "Fender" didn't even have a truss rod.  Where you normally have the rosewood plug of the truss rod on a vintage style Fender they just had a bit of brown paint!

The problem is that the manager of Chandlers told me that they had someone bringing one of these guitars into their workshop under the impression that it was a genuine Fender.

There was someone at the auction the day I went who was phoning his friend who played guitar.  I think I told him they were faker than Jordan's boobs.

More recent listings have protected themselves with "Gibson Style" and "Fender Style" in the catalogue listing but these things should be burnt.

I get the appeal of the really high quality TM style "tributes" to the originals, and the fact they actually sell for more than CS Les Pauls says how good they are, but I really don't think that you can put the Gibson logo on them.  To go further, even if the LP shape has become generic, there probably ought to be some distinguishing mark so that some unscrupulous person can't put a Gibson logo on a few years down the line.

Sassafras

I wonder if any Terry Morgans have found their way into the Harrison duo's hands?

Strat54

Sassafras said:

I wonder if any Terry Morgans have found their way into the Harrison duo's hands?

Possibly fake Terry Morgan's.....

richardhomer

Sassafras said:

I wonder if any Terry Morgans have found their way into the Harrison duo's hands?

There's a YouTube video of Mike Caswell demonstrating a 'genuine' '59 Les Paul, which was supplied by Phil Harris.

According to another vintage dealer (he stated this on Facebook) the guitar is definitely a Terry Morgan.

Clearly I have no idea whether this is true - and if it is - whether Harris was fooled by it, or actually knew it wasn't the real thing....

guitars4you

richardhomer said:

Sassafras said:

I wonder if any Terry Morgans have found their way into the Harrison duo's hands?

There's a YouTube video of Mike Caswell demonstrating a 'genuine' '59 Les Paul, which was supplied by Phil Harris.

According to another vintage dealer (he stated this on Facebook) the guitar is definitely a Terry Morgan.

Clearly I have no idea whether this is true - and if it is - whether Harris was fooled by it, or actually knew it wasn't the real thing....

not sure if someone like @Ossyrocks or others can recall a story on an LP forum - can't recall which and about 3-4 years ago (maybe a bit longer) - About someone selling a 59 that was allegedly original - Strong stories linking it to a TM model (note TM was not selling it) - It even had an original 59 loom and paf p/ups - I recall some LP forum member stating he actually sold the 59 pafs and loom to the owner of the LP that was up for sale, and as such he was supporting the stories of it a fake - But it was big 59 money - Forum talked went on for ages

mgaw

guitars4you said:

richardhomer said:

Sassafras said:

I wonder if any Terry Morgans have found their way into the Harrison duo's hands?

There's a YouTube video of Mike Caswell demonstrating a 'genuine' '59 Les Paul, which was supplied by Phil Harris.

According to another vintage dealer (he stated this on Facebook) the guitar is definitely a Terry Morgan.

Clearly I have no idea whether this is true - and if it is - whether Harris was fooled by it, or actually knew it wasn't the real thing....

not sure if someone like @Ossyrocks or others can recall a story on an LP forum - can't recall which and about 3-4 years ago (maybe a bit longer) - About someone selling a 59 that was allegedly original - Strong stories linking it to a TM model (note TM was not selling it) - It even had an original 59 loom and paf p/ups - I recall some LP forum member stating he actually sold the 59 pafs and loom to the owner of the LP that was up for sale, and as such he was supporting the stories of it a fake - But it was big 59 money - Forum talked went on for ages

and there lies the problem, in many other walks of life TM would be looking at jail time. 

ennspek

Mark you know what you are buying. When you sell it the buyer will know what they're buying.
There is obviously a market for these, if it bothered Gibson that much they would have stopped it.

guitars4you

guitars4you said:

richardhomer said:

Sassafras said:

I wonder if any Terry Morgans have found their way into the Harrison duo's hands?

There's a YouTube video of Mike Caswell demonstrating a 'genuine' '59 Les Paul, which was supplied by Phil Harris.

According to another vintage dealer (he stated this on Facebook) the guitar is definitely a Terry Morgan.

Clearly I have no idea whether this is true - and if it is - whether Harris was fooled by it, or actually knew it wasn't the real thing....

not sure if someone like @Ossyrocks or others can recall a story on an LP forum - can't recall which and about 3-4 years ago (maybe a bit longer) - About someone selling a 59 that was allegedly original - Strong stories linking it to a TM model (note TM was not selling it) - It even had an original 59 loom and paf p/ups - I recall some LP forum member stating he actually sold the 59 pafs and loom to the owner of the LP that was up for sale, and as such he was supporting the stories of it a fake - But it was big 59 money - Forum talked went on for ages

Found it

10 pages - if you have time to read it then do so - Interesting to say the least

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?167488-A-real-1958-Les-Paul-in-a-no-reserve-ebay-auction

underdog

That thread is that the one that includes a lot of input from Jo Bo ? Or am I thinking of a different fake LP thread

guitars4you

underdog said:

That thread is that the one that includes a lot of input from Jo Bo ? Or am I thinking of a different fake LP thread

when I was hunting for this I came across a few stories on line that were similar - dare say many stories inter lock - I got it wrong in that it was  a 58 not a 59 but as I said I was trying to remember something that I read a long while ago but the jist stayed with me

capo4th

Those fake Les Paul threads make great bedtime reading

Iamnobody

grappagreen said:

I have a Terry Morgan guitar and it's the best guitar I own (and I have a few). Unusually it is absolutely obvious that is made by him as it is a Garrick Custom. Terry made it for me in 2003 and I cannot overstate how great it is. It's a shame that he only made/sold a couple of these as it kicks most set neck mahogany/maple guitars I've played/heard out of the park. 

I spoke to Terry a lot during the build etc and what came across to me was a man who desperately wanted to be recognised for his luthier skills but had basically trapped himself into doing what he was doing; people were desperate for him to make the LP stuff and he simply couldn't make a living out of not doing it. I'm not saying I agree with it at all as I don't but it seemed a shame that one of our best guitar makers is pretty much unknown to most people in the UK.

Si

I don't believe that for one minute - being a luthier is a tough business but the best come through with a sustainable business that isn't based on copies. I'll also concede that a great luthier with no business sense is doomed to failure. 

What he probably means is if he went legit he would earn less, have to invest in design and marketing and have the stress of running a business that lives and dies by its products.

Or he can stay under the radar and not have to do any of that and reap the higher rewards.

capo4th

Fair play to him I say. The man clearly builds a great instrument and fills a gap in the market.
Would love to see some blind tests / side by side comparisons with Gibson guitars. Who would know?