Gibson, Maybach, Tokai, Eastman (among others) Lesters

Danielsguitars

Teyeplayer said:

It is definitely the vintage route that we all aspire to isn't it (echoing a thread on the conservativism of guitarists). Your prices seem extremely reasonable @customkits, ;particularly considering the time and the labour intensive one off aspect of your work. They also seem quite competitive when placed against the big boys.

If you don't mind, can I ask the thought proccess you go through when you see or pick up these other brands, particularly as someone who builds something similar? Do you fault spot or is it more a case of recognising where corners have beet cut to keep pricing down? In turn are there any particular brands that are lower down the pecking order but blow you away for what they are?

I can't be bothered to read all that other stuff, I'm here to talk about les Paul's which are what I love the most, the best looking too after a nice fade or two

I only pick up guitars to try that are around, I don't generally go looking because I like to look at vintage ones the most and that's what I've been doing

Getting a new one to feel like these old ones is the way forward for me and I'm in the ballpark, very similar necks to the old ones as that's what stands out for me plus weight, my les paul has to be under 9lb non chambered

I tried an aged custom shop gibson that was alot of money and while it was good like set up etc the tone was the worst of any Lp I've tried, didn't play it more than 5 mins

My best bargain was a £45 strat style brand new, it's light and rings like a bell it's even got rolled fret edges with a fatter neck
I'll be doing a project on it because its basswood so probably a tone block and cap like an Anderson or music man
We'll see if I can get custom shop tone for not alot of money

I'm going to try some collings, Huber, and Anderson to see what they're like
I know they're not cheap

Gassage

Ahhh....banned as I was opening the popcorn.

Teyeplayer

Flipping heck, just checked in after work...and wow a grenade went off! 

@mgaw for the record dude, I don't know @RichardsGuitars just as I don't know you, so to clarify this thread was and is in no way an advert as you had wondered.

I wanted an open discussion about the qualities of the many varieties of Les Paul and Les Paul copies (because like most of us here I'm some extreme degree of guitar geek). With that in mind I invited Richard to be involved as I knew he'd have opinions about the Eastman guitars (read my opening gambit again if you are unsure), and as I've not got the history some of you have with the guy, his opinion was as valid as anyone else's to my mind. I'm a welcoming soul and that's all there is to it. 

Anyway, enough of all the waffle...back to guitars, les Paul's copies to be precise...

Teyeplayer

mgaw said:

p90fool said:

There seems to be a bit of history about this particular guitar dealer which I've missed and I can't be arsed to read all the ramblings tbh, but there seems to be a massively overlooked point here.

The reason those Eastmans seem overpriced is not because of like-for-like features compared to more famous brands, they seem overpriced because almost nobody wants them.

You can almost predict the eBay used ads word for word, the desperate "kicks Gibsons ass", "better than the real thing" type stuff, all culminating in the dreaded "reserve not met".

However competitive your feature set and however high your raw materials costs, you cannot just chose to ignore the public demand aspect, and implying that the countless players both unknown and famous are stupid to buy a Gibson guitar is not the way to break a new competitor into a crowded market.

well said that man.....some of this thread (and I suspect it was the initial intention of it) reads like an  advertorial for @RichardsGuitars and a poor one at that.

It wasn't my intention at least, but I'll agree this thread was starting to look a bit hijacked or off focus atleast -particularly reading back over some of it.

I think I agree with you @p90fool, there certainly seems to be a trend setting in of higher quality far eastern builds being priced way above what we'd associate with that geographic market and as a result one has to question if the demand for them is really there?

I mentioned Auden earlier in the thread who have done a similar thing with acoustics although they are perfectly good guitars. Guild have recently reappeared, gone are their USA built guitars, but the pricing remains what it was a couple of years back. Maybe markets are changing and as I have admitted my geographic prejudices need addressing, but the pricing seems off, the marketing suggests a bigger market than they have (standard marketing I know) and I am simply not seeing them when I am out and about gigging. I've encountered the odd d'Angelico but otherwise everyone is still using the same old gear -hence Being interested to hear from folk that have bought them, there just doesn't seem that many about.

Teyeplayer

customkits said:

Teyeplayer said:

It is definitely the vintage route that we all aspire to isn't it (echoing a thread on the conservativism of guitarists). Your prices seem extremely reasonable @customkits, ;particularly considering the time and the labour intensive one off aspect of your work. They also seem quite competitive when placed against the big boys.

If you don't mind, can I ask the thought proccess you go through when you see or pick up these other brands, particularly as someone who builds something similar? Do you fault spot or is it more a case of recognising where corners have beet cut to keep pricing down? In turn are there any particular brands that are lower down the pecking order but blow you away for what they are?

I can't be bothered to read all that other stuff, I'm here to talk about les Paul's which are what I love the most, the best looking too after a nice fade or two

I only pick up guitars to try that are around, I don't generally go looking because I like to look at vintage ones the most and that's what I've been doing

Getting a new one to feel like these old ones is the way forward for me and I'm in the ballpark, very similar necks to the old ones as that's what stands out for me plus weight, my les paul has to be under 9lb non chambered

I tried an aged custom shop gibson that was alot of money and while it was good like set up etc the tone was the worst of any Lp I've tried, didn't play it more than 5 mins

My best bargain was a £45 strat style brand new, it's light and rings like a bell it's even got rolled fret edges with a fatter neck
I'll be doing a project on it because its basswood so probably a tone block and cap like an Anderson or music man
We'll see if I can get custom shop tone for not alot of money

I'm going to try some collings, Huber, and Anderson to see what they're like
I know they're not cheap

Your guitars certainly sound pretty awesome, both in the way you describe them and the sound clips you have posted @customkits, your comparison with the Custom shop model in particular no doubt raises the old idea that there are good and bad guitars in every batch -which is always avoidable when building in small batches as you are.  I do hope I get to try one-off yours sometime, they really do sound superb, thanks again for your input.

earwighoney

Teyeplayer said:

I mentioned Auden earlier in the thread who have done a similar thing with acoustics although they are perfectly good guitars. Guild have recently reappeared, gone are their USA built guitars, but the pricing remains what it was a couple of years back. 

Guild USA guitars are back.  After Fender f*cked/sold Guild they closed the New Hartford factory.  

It took a while for the new owners to start a new factory in California and get things running but there are new USA built acoustics on the market.

Teyeplayer

earwighoney said:

Teyeplayer said:

I mentioned Auden earlier in the thread who have done a similar thing with acoustics although they are perfectly good guitars. Guild have recently reappeared, gone are their USA built guitars, but the pricing remains what it was a couple of years back. 

Guild USA guitars are back.  After Fender f*cked/sold Guild they closed the New Hartford factory.  

It took a while for the new owners to start a new factory in California and get things running but there are new USA built acoustics on the market.

I'd missed that one, any sign of them doing US electrics (or have I missed that one too)?

Danielsguitars

Teyeplayer said:

customkits said:

Teyeplayer said:

It is definitely the vintage route that we all aspire to isn't it (echoing a thread on the conservativism of guitarists). Your prices seem extremely reasonable @customkits, ;particularly considering the time and the labour intensive one off aspect of your work. They also seem quite competitive when placed against the big boys.

If you don't mind, can I ask the thought proccess you go through when you see or pick up these other brands, particularly as someone who builds something similar? Do you fault spot or is it more a case of recognising where corners have beet cut to keep pricing down? In turn are there any particular brands that are lower down the pecking order but blow you away for what they are?

I can't be bothered to read all that other stuff, I'm here to talk about les Paul's which are what I love the most, the best looking too after a nice fade or two

I only pick up guitars to try that are around, I don't generally go looking because I like to look at vintage ones the most and that's what I've been doing

Getting a new one to feel like these old ones is the way forward for me and I'm in the ballpark, very similar necks to the old ones as that's what stands out for me plus weight, my les paul has to be under 9lb non chambered

I tried an aged custom shop gibson that was alot of money and while it was good like set up etc the tone was the worst of any Lp I've tried, didn't play it more than 5 mins

My best bargain was a £45 strat style brand new, it's light and rings like a bell it's even got rolled fret edges with a fatter neck
I'll be doing a project on it because its basswood so probably a tone block and cap like an Anderson or music man
We'll see if I can get custom shop tone for not alot of money

I'm going to try some collings, Huber, and Anderson to see what they're like
I know they're not cheap

Your guitars certainly sound pretty awesome, both in the way you describe them and the sound clips you have posted @customkits, your comparison with the Custom shop model in particular no doubt raises the old idea that there are good and bad guitars in every batch -which is always avoidable when building in small batches as you are.  I do hope I get to try one-off yours sometime, they really do sound superb, thanks again for your input.

Thanks for the nice comments

As all these other guitars get more expensive it can only help the small makers imo, especially with cites and rosewood legal crap

I do hope that people get stuff hand made as the price difference isn't that different if you go fender or gibson custom shop

My problem with that cs les paul was it was 9k new 6.5k secondhand
It was way off and I wouldn't ever want it

The other thing I was going to say if I was buying a les paul I'd buy an mij one because they're quality is really good for less money, the vintage ones fetch serious money as in replica territory and i know what I'd have

I looked at a couple of navigators that a guy had before i made him one and while they were superbly made lacked mojo for want of a better word and it was the necks again for me
Played great though 

I'm sure I'd let you try one of mine one day ☺, just ask 

Teyeplayer

Thanks @customkits I'll have to make sure I have enough money in the bank to not want to give it back before I let myself try one of your guitars (and take the wife on a bloody good holiday first)! :-)

Danielsguitars

Teyeplayer said:

Thanks @customkits I'll have to make sure I have enough money in the bank to not want to give it back before I let myself try one of your guitars (and take the wife on a bloody good holiday first)! :-)

lol 

Have a nice holiday, Margates cheap leaving more for guitars

Gassage

#freetheRichardone.

steviebee74

I'd like to offer something of an opinion on the Eastman Guitars. 

A few few years ago, I finally treated myself to a lovely cherry red Gibson ES335 but I could not (for the life of me) get along with it. I tried and tried for several years persevering with different setups, strings, hardware etc but nothing worked for me. 

One day, I get a phone call from a local shop owner and friend with the obligatory "we've got something you might like" so I went along and they had a lovely Jap Tokai "L5" in stock so I bought it and it instantly became my main jazzer! 

The Gibbo was soon gone and the Tokai started going out with me on every gig. I play in a small "Jazz" trio and the Tok was soon "into credit" in terms of money. I honestly thought I had found my guitar for life and nothing changed for about 5 years. 

About two two years ago however, I discovered Eastman guitars in Foulds music (Derby) whilst trying out amps. It was here, I fell for the AR371CE model (Catchy name I know!). They were retailing for about £900 at the time and I just couldn't justify another semi at that time but I mentioned it to the same friend who had sold me the Tokai and got the "leave it with me speech". 

A week later, another phone call came saying he had sourced me a used AR371 from a collector and "serial flipper" who also uses the shop. I went along and wasn't too enamoured with this one but for the price (£550) I took a punt on it. Next, I took it to my local tech who, for a further £50 made it into the guitar I have used exclusively since! I cannot fault this Eastman for playability, feel, weight, looks, tuning stability and sound. After a year or so, I swapped out the pickup for a higher quality H-Size P90 (personal preference over humbuckers) and also the whole wiring loom whilst I was at it. It is now a "monster" and has been used on literally every jazz gig since. Remember, this is the lowest-price archtop that Eastman make! 

Eastmans are fantastic guitars for the money. You could argue that I got mine used and have since spent money on it etc but the fact remains that I now have a great guitar that has paid for itself at least 10 times over. It performs exactly as it should and earns its keep repeatedly. 

Of course there is the kudos and bragging rights of owning the "real thing" but I have bonded with this guitar more than most I have ever owned. 

Sure, my Tokai is also a fantastic bit of kit but the Eastman definitely has the edge and has all but replaced it professionally. I can also relate to the "Tokai Sound" mentioned by others in this thread - there is a certain softer, more generic sound about them but they are very consistent and usually deliver what they are supposed to. 

I guess my point is that I bought a guitar to d a job and the Eastman has most definitely done that job exactly as I wanted it to. 

I'm also a firm believer in spending a bit of money making sure a guitar is right for me. Of course, I have a great relationship with my local tech who knows exactly what I want from a guitar and I think also that you need to give an instrument a length of time to connect with it. 

Incidentally, I have been looking for a Gibson J45 for a number of years for use as a "house" guitar and not for gigs as I don't tend to play acoustic gigs. To me, the slope-shouldered dreads are the coolest lolling of all acoustics. 

You guessed it though, I've never found one I'm prepared to spend over £1600 on so I started looking at the Eastman E20SS. Now, these are not cheap at almost £1300 but they are so nice that the headstock name is irrelevant. 

A week or two back, I found one used on another forum for just less than half the retail price. Immediately, the frets were too tall for me and I didn't like the feel of them at all but again, a £50 setup and fret-dress have made this into the acoustic of my dreams. 

I've had others (my Martin and Taylor are both now for sale on these very pages) but this one is for me! 

Another point to remember is this - just how much of a guitar actually has to be "made" in the USA in order for it to carry the "Made In The USA" tag? 

Cheers

Teyeplayer

Really interested to hear about that @steviebee74 . One of the factors behind this thread was not entirely dissimilar.

Last year I did some sessions on an album and after chatting away to the producer he passed me his es335, let's just say I became a bit attached and it ended up in the whole album -I'd turned up with half a dozen guitars and they all stayed in their cases.

At the end of the second week and having built a substantial bond with this beauty, I had also been coming to terms that this was an original '64 and wasn't coming home with me. As a result I tried every 335 I came across last summer, new, secondhand, customshop. Tried them all. None sounded or felt close.

One day in frustration I start trying other brands, picked up a Taylor T3B and there was the sound -it does the clarity and fitnesse of an early 335 better than any modern Gibson (imo). I'm not knocking Gibsons, I have a 90s les Paul special that is a wonderful guitar. I have owned a fantastic sg in the past and also have clearly played a life changing Gibson, one that I would give a limb to play week in week out. But there are other options that are often better for the gig. My Loar is another one that just keeps going and does the acoustic gigs beautifully. 

So yeah, that's why I asked people's opinions, if I'm honest I'm yet too pick up a les Paul standard that sends that shiver down my spine and up my arm, but I love the look, it's all about finding the right one (even though I do flip every five or so years)! :-) TBH I'm tempted to try these Eastmans out, with an open mind and just see.

Danielsguitars

Slightly off topic 

My friend has a 63 es335 small blocks cherry and it's a fantastic and hardly any checking

I also played an immaculate 59 335 unbelievable condition, lovely guitar

That led me down the I'll have to make one path from a replica kit with proper laminates they're being made by someone in the state's 

Oh well one day ill get round to it

Teyeplayer

customkits said:

Slightly off topic 

My friend has a 63 es335 small blocks cherry and it's a fantastic and hardly any checking

I also played an immaculate 59 335 unbelievable condition, lovely guitar

That led me down the I'll have to make one path from a replica kit with proper laminates they're being made by someone in the state's 

Oh well one day ill get round to it

I'd been looking at the pgk kits, any experience with them?

gordiji

Tokai make and have made a broad range of LP's at a wide price range. Best not to generalise. Also the amount of different pups are far fewer than in Gibson which may give the impression of a generic sound. (they're often paf 2)
The LS150 upwards (after about 2010) are laquer finish, 1 piece back, narrow long tenon . Upgrading with good pafs makes an excellent option to gibbo reissue. I didn't like the stock pups in mine ( LS150) & completely changed the character of the guitar with some bareknuckles.  

Danielsguitars

Teyeplayer said:

customkits said:

Slightly off topic 

My friend has a 63 es335 small blocks cherry and it's a fantastic and hardly any checking

I also played an immaculate 59 335 unbelievable condition, lovely guitar

That led me down the I'll have to make one path from a replica kit with proper laminates they're being made by someone in the state's 

Oh well one day ill get round to it

I'd been looking at the pgk kits, any experience with them?

no it's a Ken McKay kit which is the most accurate out there, it's not really a kit more like parts and definitely not for a bit of a go at building one

You've got to build it like an accoustic, it only comes with front and back plates plus a centre block and kerfings 

I have to build the body jigs and everything from scratch
You've got to build the neck and fretboard too

They look and sound fantastic though from one i heard 

I will try later this year if I get the chance and it needs that 59 paint job 

Danielsguitars

gordiji said:

Tokai make and have made a broad range of LP's at a wide price range. Best not to generalise. Also the amount of different pups are far fewer than in Gibson which may give the impression of a generic sound. (they're often paf 2)
The LS150 upwards (after about 2010) are laquer finish, 1 piece back, narrow long tenon . Upgrading with good pafs makes an excellent option to gibbo reissue. I didn't like the stock pups in mine ( LS150) & completely changed the character of the guitar with some bareknuckles.  

Pickups are very subjective and i don't like bk mules, not paf like to me 
I even had a neck pup rewound by shed
Night and day difference to me

Teyeplayer

customkits said:

Teyeplayer said:

customkits said:

Slightly off topic 

My friend has a 63 es335 small blocks cherry and it's a fantastic and hardly any checking

I also played an immaculate 59 335 unbelievable condition, lovely guitar

That led me down the I'll have to make one path from a replica kit with proper laminates they're being made by someone in the state's 

Oh well one day ill get round to it

I'd been looking at the pgk kits, any experience with them?

no it's a Ken McKay kit which is the most accurate out there, it's not really a kit more like parts and definitely not for a bit of a go at building one

You've got to build it like an accoustic, it only comes with front and back plates plus a centre block and kerfings 

I have to build the body jigs and everything from scratch
You've got to build the neck and fretboard too

They look and sound fantastic though from one i heard 

I will try later this year if I get the chance and it needs that 59 paint job 

Sounds amazing, looking forward to the thread on this one!!

Deijavoo

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