Custom Shop Fenders

Strangefan

Opinion only ahead.........

Now I totally get hand made guitars, I love Andersons, suhrs etc but..... 
I think the whole custom shop thing is laughable, 

Fenders  were  never ever originally designed to be a hand made item,  it was mass produced.

It's like Roland releasing a hand built version of a vintage tr 909...just because the originals have gone up in value, I owned a custom shop strat and it was...... A good strat,  that is it. 

I would totally understand them hand making new guitars with mad designs but custom shop reissues.. .. 
 A complete waste of money and to be honest nothing like an original at all because it was built worlds apart,...... Marketing at its finest. 


What do you think? 

richardhomer

No.

The best Fenders made since the pre-CBS days. 

octatonic

They are generally fine but it smacks of mass-produced, pseudo-bespoke manufacturing and I'm not into it.
I'm more into the Anderson/Suhr thing myself, although it should be said they are not handmade.
They just have slightly smaller CNC routers.

Trotter

My master built tele is by some margin the best tele i've ever played, including numerous vintage pieces worth considerably more. definitely not a waste of money in my experience. 

guitars4you

easy to say I'm biased as I sell so many C/Shop models - but I've seen so many mediocre vintage Strats and Teles - some old ones are good many are just okay - These days you see so few mediocre C/Shop models - You have a look how many of our guitar hero's today, plus many session based pro players, now use C/Shop models

and as @richardhomer states, the best Fender's since the pre-CBS days - and better than many pre-CBS models

Anderson and Suhr's have there fan club and make great guitars

Incidentally, what was mass produced in the 50's and 60's for Fender was fairly hands on labour intensive - And Suhr and Anderson today use plenty of CNC as per Fender

octatonic

I hand make guitars and I aspire to have a CNC router, something I should achieve within a year or two.
There is nothing inherently wrong with CNC and many benefits- the number one of these is safety and the second is repeatability.

guitars4you

octatonic said:

I hand make guitars and I aspire to have a CNC router, something I should achieve within a year or two.
There is nothing inherently wrong with CNC and many benefits- the number one of these is safety and the second is repeatability.

and accuracy 

octatonic

guitars4you said:

octatonic said:

I hand make guitars and I aspire to have a CNC router, something I should achieve within a year or two.
There is nothing inherently wrong with CNC and many benefits- the number one of these is safety and the second is repeatability.

and accuracy 

That is really what I mean by repeatability- all the necks and bodies are exact copies, if you wish them to be.
When I hand make a neck there is always going to be a degree of difference between them, no matter how much I try to make them the same.

guitars4you

I think additionally that whilst the build quality of Suhr's and Anderson's is top quality with a slick playing action, they do have a tendency to be pure and lacking in character regarding tonal quality compared to a more 'organic' voice of a vintage replica - IMO

octatonic

guitars4you said:

I think additionally that whilst the build quality of Suhr's and Anderson's is top quality with a slick playing action, they do have a tendency to be pure and lacking in character regarding tonal quality compared to a more 'organic' voice of a vintage replica - IMO

I don't agree with this.

CS Strats looks old on a surface level but they aren't and you know they aren't.
It is a bit like the new 'retro' styled motorcycles from Triumph or BMW- they look authentic right up until you put them side by side to the 'real thing' and then they look a bit mickey mouse.

I'm of the opinion that the player does most the work anyway and that any good player can get the tones they need out of an instrument they have confidence in.

musteatbrain

I'm sure some of the heavy relics are made on the original 50s factory equipment using the same methods? I think the custom shop make guitars from good to exceptional. I've found there is a significant difference between them and the standard ranges

richardhomer

octatonic said:

guitars4you said:

I think additionally that whilst the build quality of Suhr's and Anderson's is top quality with a slick playing action, they do have a tendency to be pure and lacking in character regarding tonal quality compared to a more 'organic' voice of a vintage replica - IMO

I don't agree with this.

CS Strats looks old on a surface level but they aren't and you know they aren't.
It is a bit like the new 'retro' styled motorcycles from Triumph or BMW- they look authentic right up until you put them side by side to the 'real thing' and then they look a bit mickey mouse.

I'm of the opinion that the player does most the work anyway and that any good player can get the tones they need out of an instrument they have confidence in.

I think it's true to say that Andersons and Suhrs tend to sound quite different from vintage style CS guitars. I'm not saying better/worse - but definitely not the same. I suspect this is largely down to the two post Gotoh trem with solid saddles and differently voiced pick-ups - rather than any inherent tonal difference between the brands.

Bridgehouse

One of these days I would love to try a Custom Shop 1964 Anniversary Precision Heavy Relic.

All the pictures I've seen of them look so very similar to mine that I would just love to do a side by side comparison and see how it stacks up against the original. It's the same colour, same tort on the guard, same fingerboard nut width, the lot.. 

Most of all, I would love to know if you can tell by feel and tone alone which one is which...

thebreeze

I agree with richardhomer and guitars4you, I think in the future some, or even many, of these Custom Shop guitars will be regarded as some of the best guitars ever made.  I've been thinking long and hard about this as I've recently decided to buy a vintage guitar.  As a result I'm selling some of my collection, most of which are custom shops.  We all buy guitars for different reasons, to play or to collect - I'm a bit of both.  In purely playing terms they are superb instruments and it's easy in my eyes, fingers and ears to tell the difference pretty quickly when playing one against any other model.

I own a CS 60th anniversary 1954 Strat (which will also have to be sold).  I played an original (refin'd) 1954 Strat in Denmark Street.  Hand on heart I couldn't discern any difference in playability and sound.  The reproduction is absolutely spot on.  Incredibly impressive. Maybe a '54 is easier to replicate than other years but I was bowled over by similarity.

I can understand OP's thinking but if you rate original models then the Custom Shop models do hold up, they just need to age a little.

RandallFlagg

The 2 Fender Relic Custom Shop Strats I have owned have been superb sounding and feeling guitars. Both have had hand wound pickups that have sounded truly excellent.

I take objection to the OPs comment that they are a complete waste of money. Great guitars at a premium price, not at all a waste of money. If you can afford the best then buy the best if it makes you happy. I can and do.

Strangefan

I think my problem is you can only make a strat so good.
The plastic is plastic, the trems still standard trems,  only difference is the wood, but even then it's standard strat wood  covered in paint and lacquer.
If they started to use their skills on more exotic pieces say a strat with rubbed down exotic woods and a bubinga  neck I could totally see it but in all honesty what they're making at the mo  for me  it can't be any better than a great strat, as the other bits are totally industry standard. 
Just buy a usa reissue and you have 99 percent of the custom shop........ And don't  get me started on yabarra pickups!!

Strangefan

RandallFlagg said:

The 2 Fender Relic Custom Shop Strats I have owned have been superb sounding and feeling guitars. Both have had hand wound pickups that have sounded truly excellent.

I take objection to the OPs comment that they are a complete waste of money. Great guitars at a premium price, not at all a waste of money. If you can afford the best then buy the best if it makes you happy. I can and do.

But they're not the best, I have played a lot and I have owned some usa strats  which are equally as good. 

richardhomer

thebreeze said:

I own a CS 60th anniversary 1954 Strat (which will also have to be sold).  I played an original (refin'd) 1954 Strat in Denmark Street.  Hand on heart I couldn't discern any difference in playability and sound.  The reproduction is absolutely spot on.  Incredibly impressive. Maybe a '54 is easier to replicate than other years but I was bowled over by similarity.

I can understand OP's thinking but if you rate original models then the Custom Shop models do hold up, they just need to age a little.

I recently played an original '57 - sadly not through an amp - but like you, the similarity to my Relic (which is a 56) was striking. They definitely capture the feel very convincingly.

I a/b'd mine with the American Vintage Strat I owned before it - the CS guitar sounded a LOT better - which is why I swapped. To be fair, it was 10 years old when I bought it - so it's probably seen plenty of use.

There are plenty of decent playing, decent sounding Strats at all price points - but a good CS one is far closer to the best vintage guitars than (say) an early 70s CBS Strat that these days seem to be more expensive.

I don't doubt Fender make a very handsome profit on each one they sell - but so do makers of any premium product.

Bridgehouse

Strangefan said:

I think my problem is you can only make a strat so good.
The plastic is plastic, the trems still standard trems,  only difference is the wood, but even then it's standard strat wood  covered in paint and lacquer.
If they started to use their skills on more exotic pieces say a strat with rubbed down exotic woods and a bubinga  neck I could totally see it but in all honesty what they're making at the mo  for me  it can't be any better than a great strat, as the other bits are totally industry standard. 
Just buy a usa reissue and you have 99 percent of the custom shop........ And don't  get me started on yabarra pickups!!

Now to be fair (and I know, I know, it's basses but it still applies..) I've tried an American Standard P, and a Custom Shop P, and of course some Vintage P's including a pre-CBS.

The American Standard was good, don't get me wrong, but it was no where near 99% of either the custom shop, or the pre-CBS. I would say the Custom Shop was possibly 95%+ of the pre-CBS. Maybe more. 

The American Standard was just very different. Tone, playability, feel, everything... a very good bass, but discernibly different to either the CS or the pre-CBS

guitars4you

octatonic said:

guitars4you said:

I think additionally that whilst the build quality of Suhr's and Anderson's is top quality with a slick playing action, they do have a tendency to be pure and lacking in character regarding tonal quality compared to a more 'organic' voice of a vintage replica - IMO

I don't agree with this.

CS Strats looks old on a surface level but they aren't and you know they aren't.
It is a bit like the new 'retro' styled motorcycles from Triumph or BMW- they look authentic right up until you put them side by side to the 'real thing' and then they look a bit mickey mouse.

I'm of the opinion that the player does most the work anyway and that any good player can get the tones they need out of an instrument they have confidence in.

I find more so when comparing a C/Shop replica to a 'similar' Suhr/Anderson traditional based classic models that I think they have some 'purity' about them as though they are to perfect - IMO the C/Shop is more organic

I'm not sure what you mean old on the surface but not old 'under the bonnet' - They are not trying to reinvent the wheel or to create something fresh - they have studied enough good old models to see what makes  a good old one magical and the C/Shop guys use these good vintage models as a bench mark as to what they are trying to achieve - I feel they can't improve on a good old one, but many old guitars are not good - Granted chunkier frets and a 9.5" radius enhance the playing performance

I do agree you need confidence in how a guitar feels and plays in order to get the best out of the tone - But just playing a big open E acoustically I feel a C/Shop is more organic and less pure

guitars4you

Strangefan said:

I think my problem is you can only make a strat so good.
The plastic is plastic, the trems still standard trems,  only difference is the wood, but even then it's standard strat wood  covered in paint and lacquer.
If they started to use their skills on more exotic pieces say a strat with rubbed down exotic woods and a bubinga  neck I could totally see it but in all honesty what they're making at the mo  for me  it can't be any better than a great strat, as the other bits are totally industry standard. 
Just buy a usa reissue and you have 99 percent of the custom shop........ And don't  get me started on yabarra pickups!!

But if they made 'exotic woods' models they would not be a replica - Part of Suhr and Anderson's success is producing awesome 'super Strats' (or Teles) by using such woods - I don't think it is Fender's job to do this - Granted they make a few from time to time, but they are not that successful when they make such exotic wood models - there success is awesome replicas - I agree you can only make a guitar so good, but once you know what you are trying to achieve and have the right bench mark in place the goal of the Custom Shop guys is to produce such great guitars on a consistent basis  - I think you said it yourself in that 'they can't be better than a great Strat'  and that is the main job of the Custom Shop guys

maybe I'm spoilt as are Doug at Coda, John at Peach and maybe a few other dealers in that many of our C/Shop models are Limited Edition, Special Run, Custom order models and less 'of the shelf Time Machine models' and as such select woods and other upgrades ensure we get many C/Shop models that are a cut above - Yet even Time Machine models today are higher spec'd than 5 years ago  - IMO C/Shop models are superior in many ways than a AVRI model, as they are superior to a Mex Classic reissue - The grade of wood you use has an impact on the tone and the C/Shopguys get first dibs on the best pieces regarding weight, tonal character and a vibrant acoustic voice

I can only voice my opinion and I can't expect everyone to agree - Suhr and Anderson have their place