Custom Shop Fenders

CloudNine

Agree with ICBM. Never noticed any real difference personally. There is a level of attention to detail that will make a guitar good, and the CS Team Builts easily hit that level, diminishing (to pretty much zero) returns after that. There are no super duper magic woods that go into the Masterbuilt guitars, just super duper marketing bullshit.

mburekenge

Strat54 said:

mburekenge said:

@Strat54 thanks it's called '50's tele' black, white guard and Birdseye maple neck.

Very nice, been looking for a blonde one of those but there are very few in the UK, in fact they made very few of these full-stop in that period as they were mostly Relic's. Your guitar is identical in spec to the Cunetto Nocaster of that period....like an N.O.S version of it. Lovely.

Thanks for the info. I knew nothing about this guitar before I bought it. In fact, it's the only one I've ever bought without playing it first. Happily for me, it's a great guitar!

Strat54

ICBM said:

SickSquid said:

[/can of worms] There is Custom Shop, then there is Master Built, which is in a whole different league
Once you get deep into that, the different builders are then of varying quality
so there are those that are more desirable

Don't agree. Of the ones I've played there is no difference in quality between a 'team built' and a 'master built'. If anything I think the 'team built' have been better, on average.

The lines have been blurred, especially after John Page left and so did all the really great builders like J.W.Black, John Suhr, Alan Hamel , Gene Baker, Fred Stuart. Not helped by the need for the next wave of builders to significantly up their build numbers to meet demand. Nowadays they have a team of assistants. I sometimes see a little more attention to detail on the relic work, Dale Wilson's work at times looks amazing but if you ordered a standard N.O.S Strat from one of the masterbuilders and compared it to a Teambuilt guitar then the benefits would be marginal for your £2k (est) upcharge. 
I've probably played and owned around sixty of the old school masterbuilt guitars and they were amazing. I have a few still that I've owned for a long time and they are going nowhere. The big difference to me were the neck profiles which were quite like no other stock CS Fender I ever played. Of course neck pocket fit, fretwork  and general finish are top drawer too. The later post 2000 Masterbuilt guitars I've gradually sold off one by one. Had an early John Cruz Masterbuilt Esquire that I bought from a Guitar Center in NYC and it was dreadful when it arrived.....the wet cardboard box tone. Took it to a well known tech and he said nothing could be done for it short of stripping it and starting again....like deadwood. Worst thing was I had an email from John prior to buying the guitar telling me how great the guitar was and how sad he was to see it leave his bench! Oh well....

matone

Looked at a few at the NE Show today,eye watering prices,less than convincing relicing .I`ll stick to putting stuff together using quality parts from Warmoth,Jameson`s etc for a fraction of the cost !

guitars4you

Certainly diminishing returns syndrome between a good Custom Shop and Masterbuilt - Difference is far more subtle than say AVRI to C/Shop in my mind

I think on a blind fold test we can all say we prefer guitar a or b or c for what ever reason that might be, when we compare a few side by side - But I bet it would be more of a guess as to picking out a good C/Shop or M/Built on a similar test - I think there is still something in there but more minimal - Yet I sell plenty of both as well

Rox

It's also worth remembering that it costs more to try and replicate something accurately (we'll skip how accurate they are ) which is why reproductions of things are always expensive.  Building a pre-CBS strat the first time round, it didn't matter what the body carve was - if it was sanded a little too far, if the wrong paint was ordered, the logo a little wonky, etc.

People want a reproduction of the mythical pre-CBS perfect masterbuilt guitar, hand caressed by Leo Fender himself, imbuing the mojo magic that flowed through a tiny artisan workshop full of skill professionals.

What they don't want is a copy of a mass-produced guitar with variances, designed to be modular, the neck disposable when the frets wear out... the paint prepared in a dangerous, unprofessional way.  4 or 5 piece bodies, variable neck carves, etc.

SickSquid

Strat54 said:

 Had an early John Cruz Masterbuilt Esquire that I bought from a Guitar Center in NYC and it was dreadful when it arrived.....the wet cardboard box tone. Took it to a well known tech and he said nothing could be done for it short of stripping it and starting again....like deadwood. Worst thing was I had an email from John prior to buying the guitar telling me how great the guitar was and how sad he was to see it leave his bench! Oh well....

Like I said, some master builds are more desirable than others
John Cruz wasn't a guitar builder before starting with Fender
he started as a finish tester, strumming in the sound proof booth

Teetonetal

SickSquid said:

[/can of worms] There is Custom Shop, then there is Master Built, which is in a whole different league
Once you get deep into that, the different builders are then of varying quality
so there are those that are more desirable

I have a mb guitar. My mim and mii fenders are both better playing and nicer sounding.

The real difference is the quality of the paint work. The actual guitar underneath is pretty much the same.

No one will ever convince me that Fender CS and MB guitars are worth the extra money... unless you are looking for a particular finish - which is the only reason I have one.

My mates custom built Patrick Eggle blows my mb out of the water. And it was half the price.

Fellix

While I can't argue about the merits and justification of the historic C/S guitars Fender builds, but I am curious about the differences of a modern era C/S build.

I own a '93 Strat Plus Deluxe, it's my dream Strat and after being allowed to randomly strum on one in a guitar shop back in 1995, made me want to learn and play the guitar (Nirvana was the other main reason). Now my Strat is an amazing guitar, as are all of the Strat Pluses, as they were the flagship American made factory built guitars (I think back in '87 when the first pluses came out, the C/S didn't exist or was just being put together).

So what makes a C/S better over a top spec American made guitar, when they are both built as current models? 

Strangefan

Fellix said:

So what makes a C/S better over a top spec American made guitar, when they are both built as current models?




Absoloutely nothing, Psuedo-craftmanship?

richardhomer

Fellix said:

I own a '93 Strat Plus Deluxe, it's my dream Strat and after being allowed to randomly strum on one in a guitar shop back in 1995, made me want to learn and play the guitar (Nirvana was the other main reason). Now my Strat is an amazing guitar, as are all of the Strat Pluses, as they were the flagship American made factory built guitars (I think back in '87 when the first pluses came out, the C/S didn't exist or was just being put together).

So what makes a C/S better over a top spec American made guitar, when they are both built as current models? 

Mid-90s American Standards, Pluses and derivatives were made of block-board - with laminates on the front and back to hide how many pieces of wood they were made from.

I'm not suggesting that automatically makes a poor guitar - but it is an example of a difference....

guitars4you

Fellix said:

While I can't argue about the merits and justification of the historic C/S guitars Fender builds, but I am curious about the differences of a modern era C/S build.

I own a '93 Strat Plus Deluxe, it's my dream Strat and after being allowed to randomly strum on one in a guitar shop back in 1995, made me want to learn and play the guitar (Nirvana was the other main reason). Now my Strat is an amazing guitar, as are all of the Strat Pluses, as they were the flagship American made factory built guitars (I think back in '87 when the first pluses came out, the C/S didn't exist or was just being put together).

So what makes a C/S better over a top spec American made guitar, when they are both built as current models? 

look at a picture, or a Strat on the dealers wall and they can all look similar - The difference is how it feels, plays and sounds - Materials and build quality will/should have an influence on this 

crunchman

Fellix said:

While I can't argue about the merits and justification of the historic C/S guitars Fender builds, but I am curious about the differences of a modern era C/S build.

I own a '93 Strat Plus Deluxe, it's my dream Strat and after being allowed to randomly strum on one in a guitar shop back in 1995, made me want to learn and play the guitar (Nirvana was the other main reason). Now my Strat is an amazing guitar, as are all of the Strat Pluses, as they were the flagship American made factory built guitars (I think back in '87 when the first pluses came out, the C/S didn't exist or was just being put together).

So what makes a C/S better over a top spec American made guitar, when they are both built as current models? 

The Custom Shop does get first choice of wood, but having said that, if a really resonant piece turns up in the Mexico factory they aren't going to say "This is too good for us.  Let's send it to the US for the Custom Shop."

I think the Custom Shop finishes might be a bit different.  For a start they are nitro, and there aren't many models from the main factory that are.  The AVRIs are nitro but I think the nitro is sprayed on top of a poly base coat with those.  It's probably a thicker finish than the Custom Shop guitars.  There have been a few "thin skin" guitars from the main actory like the Eric Johnson signature and a few special runs but they are few and far between.

I don't know of any other actual differences in construction.  In theory there should be slightly more attention to detail in the Custom Shop from more experienced workers.

Edit: the other thing you can do with Custom Shop is actually spec up a guitar yourself (within limits) and get something that may not be part of the regular line.

Fellix

Thanks for all the answer guys. With regards to my Strat Plus Deluxe, it's one of the Ash bodied guitars with a trans blue finish 





I know it's hard to really compare these old Strats due to them having so many quirky parts on them. I guess the  modern version was the Strat Deluxe? 

So really the C/S is the whole kid in a candy shop situation, where is you have the money you can pretty much ask them to build the most crazy design lurking in the customers brain? I will need some confirmation with this, but does the C/S turn out "modern" style guitars to make sure a set quota is met and they just ship them to any guitar shop that wants to have a modern C/S guitar to give their customers more options in the store? 

My own personal feelings about C/S Strat's is I think the whole  "historic" models they produce are worth the money and there is plenty of people who have compared them and a normal "bedroom" player would never hear much of a difference if any. I really love the special runs of famous Strat's like the David Gilmour (my all time number one guitar hero) "The Black Strat". If it was just a "random" built C/S guitar where something was just specced up by the shop, then I guess I wouldn't see the point in spending that money. Because I've never played on a C/S Fender, I can't see what would make that guitar stand out next to a top production line US Strat?

richardhomer

Fellix said:

Because I've never played on a C/S Fender, I can't see what would make that guitar stand out next to a top production line US Strat?

Fender are very good at not making awful guitars. The quality of a modern Squier isn't 'that' far away from a Mexican - or US Professional model. Please note - I'm not saying they are as good - but probably better than the price would suggest they should be.

This carries on through the range - the small details get better (generally) the more you spend, right up to the Custom Shop.

Whether the level of improvement warrants the price differential, is down to personal taste - and whether you can afford (or are willing) to spend that much.

I paid less for my used CS Strat, than I did for a new Pure Vintage (not CS) 59 Strat. The CS is significantly better - particularly in terms of sound. It was bought on merit - not because of the badge.

Try some and see what you think. Try some Suhrs and Andersons too - but do remember - there's nothing wrong with being happy with the guitar you've got....

guitars4you

Fellix said:

So really the C/S is the whole kid in a candy shop situation, where is you have the money you can pretty much ask them to build the most crazy design lurking in the customers brain? I will need some confirmation with this, but does the C/S turn out "modern" style guitars to make sure a set quota is met and they just ship them to any guitar shop that wants to have a modern C/S guitar to give their customers more options in the store? 

@richardhomer - one of the best quotes I've heard - there's nothing wrong with being happy with the guitar you've got....

Ref your comments above regarding Fender Custom Shop and a more 'modern Strat' - this might give you some help info and ideas http://www.fendercustomshop.com/how-to-order/ - Effectively many options are available, so if you want a modern or vintage based Strat with 22 frets, locking tuners a vintage trem or modern 2 point assembly you can have it - I believe you can still order a Strat with Lace Sensor pick-ups - There are many options on a neck profile but I know the exact profile on your Strat Plus is not available, but there are options that are similar - satin finish on the neck or gloss - Nitro or poly etc

Over the years the Custom Shop team have released a few 'modern' based Strats, often around a custom Deluxe format, so essentially the Deluxe was the replacement for the Strat Plus, as the Strat Elite has now replaced the Strat Deluxe - so they would build a Custom Shop Strat Elite with various tweaks as required - compound radius, 7.25, 12" etc - different pick-ups - different finishes - new shiny gloss, or aged etc

Any C/Shop dealer or customer can spec accordingly from the options list - Hope that helps you a bit more

crunchman

Was just looking at that options list.  It doesn't look very "custom".

If I want to order a Tele with a decent arrangement and placement of controls it doesn't look possible.  I want a switch that's not too close to the volume knob, and I'd like the volume knob closer to me.  Not Strat close so I knock it with my little finger, but closer than the standard Tele layout.

It looks like it's whatever they can do without having to manually rout something or reprogram the CNC.

Teetonetal

crunchman said:

Was just looking at that options list.  It doesn't look very "custom".

If I want to order a Tele with a decent arrangement and placement of controls it doesn't look possible.  I want a switch that's not too close to the volume knob, and I'd like the volume knob closer to me.  Not Strat close so I knock it with my little finger, but closer than the standard Tele layout.

It looks like it's whatever they can do without having to manually rout something or reprogram the CNC.

That's because, as I said earlier, fender custom shop really means we do nice paintwork.

crunchman

Teetonetal said:

crunchman said:

Was just looking at that options list.  It doesn't look very "custom".

If I want to order a Tele with a decent arrangement and placement of controls it doesn't look possible.  I want a switch that's not too close to the volume knob, and I'd like the volume knob closer to me.  Not Strat close so I knock it with my little finger, but closer than the standard Tele layout.

It looks like it's whatever they can do without having to manually rout something or reprogram the CNC.

That's because, as I said earlier, fender custom shop really means we do nice paintwork.

I've got a copy of The Dream Factory at home.  From some of the guitars in there they used to do a lot more interesting stuff.  It seems that the bean counters have taken over and decreed that they stick to standard designs so that they can churn out more guitars more quickly.

Whitecat

I think they sometimes let the builders go wild, because they can make calendars and take 'em to trade shows and do whatever they need to do with them to use them as marketing tools, not instruments. And if you're a million-selling artist on tour I'm sure you can have something off-the-grid too.

But for us plebs off the street, it's pretty much "choose specs and parts that we already have bins full of and put them together, but not in any way that might defeat the CNC machine. And don't go too crazy on the colour." 

But I guess MOST people are traditionalists and just want their idealised version of a Strat from any given year rather than some new-fangled nonsense...