Custom Shop Fenders

Fellix

richardhomer said:

Fellix said:

Because I've never played on a C/S Fender, I can't see what would make that guitar stand out next to a top production line US Strat?

Fender are very good at not making awful guitars. The quality of a modern Squier isn't 'that' far away from a Mexican - or US Professional model. Please note - I'm not saying they are as good - but probably better than the price would suggest they should be.

This carries on through the range - the small details get better (generally) the more you spend, right up to the Custom Shop.

Whether the level of improvement warrants the price differential, is down to personal taste - and whether you can afford (or are willing) to spend that much.

I paid less for my used CS Strat, than I did for a new Pure Vintage (not CS) 59 Strat. The CS is significantly better - particularly in terms of sound. It was bought on merit - not because of the badge.

Try some and see what you think. Try some Suhrs and Andersons too - but do remember - there's nothing wrong with being happy with the guitar you've got....

guitars4you said:

Fellix said:

So really the C/S is the whole kid in a candy shop situation, where is you have the money you can pretty much ask them to build the most crazy design lurking in the customers brain? I will need some confirmation with this, but does the C/S turn out "modern" style guitars to make sure a set quota is met and they just ship them to any guitar shop that wants to have a modern C/S guitar to give their customers more options in the store? 

@richardhomer - one of the best quotes I've heard - there's nothing wrong with being happy with the guitar you've got....

Ref your comments above regarding Fender Custom Shop and a more 'modern Strat' - this might give you some help info and ideas http://www.fendercustomshop.com/how-to-order/ - Effectively many options are available, so if you want a modern or vintage based Strat with 22 frets, locking tuners a vintage trem or modern 2 point assembly you can have it - I believe you can still order a Strat with Lace Sensor pick-ups - There are many options on a neck profile but I know the exact profile on your Strat Plus is not available, but there are options that are similar - satin finish on the neck or gloss - Nitro or poly etc

Over the years the Custom Shop team have released a few 'modern' based Strats, often around a custom Deluxe format, so essentially the Deluxe was the replacement for the Strat Plus, as the Strat Elite has now replaced the Strat Deluxe - so they would build a Custom Shop Strat Elite with various tweaks as required - compound radius, 7.25, 12" etc - different pick-ups - different finishes - new shiny gloss, or aged etc

Any C/Shop dealer or customer can spec accordingly from the options list - Hope that helps you a bit more

Again, thanks for both of your comments. You pick out some valid points and the link helped me understand what Fenders CS secret sauce is made of.

Around the end of the summer last year I bought the new American Professional Strat in Cloudburst Blue. It was the most stunning finish I had seen on a normal Strat in years. Also the naked finished neck and the feel of the guitar was something else. But I made a stupid mistake, I had bought the guitar new online. I was so enthralled with just how stunning that cloudburst mist that I didn't think about the other stuff the guitar had. I really don't rate Fenders noiseless pickups, compared to the Lace Sensors. Before I had my Strat Plus , I turned a Mexican Fender body into a replica of a Strat Plus and loaded it up with the TBX boost and 3 Gold Lace Sensors. Even those classic voiced and old designed pups were better with the overall tone, than the latest Fender ones. The other problem was the whole switching system that made the guitar have 10 different positions. 

I like things to be basic and simple with my gear and I just wasn't enjoying the guitar, but the build quality just blew me away. Because everything is CNC'd , I believe (naively) that every body and neck (not fully) are going to be bang on each and every time, because there is no human involvement in cutting and milling the wood. I watched a video about the C/S being 25 and they were showing the luthiers sanding the guitars by hand and they had different templates they could use to guide them. So in a way, if you get a C/S "off the peg" guitar, it might well be the only one that has that profile?

My other guitar is a Les Paul Classic Custom, which is not a "true" LP Custom, but only the customs look like that. I don't know if Fender could do anything like that with the Strat's etc? 

MattFGBI

crunchman said:

Teetonetal said:

crunchman said:

Was just looking at that options list.  It doesn't look very "custom".

If I want to order a Tele with a decent arrangement and placement of controls it doesn't look possible.  I want a switch that's not too close to the volume knob, and I'd like the volume knob closer to me.  Not Strat close so I knock it with my little finger, but closer than the standard Tele layout.

It looks like it's whatever they can do without having to manually rout something or reprogram the CNC.

That's because, as I said earlier, fender custom shop really means we do nice paintwork.

I've got a copy of The Dream Factory at home.  From some of the guitars in there they used to do a lot more interesting stuff.  It seems that the bean counters have taken over and decreed that they stick to standard designs so that they can churn out more guitars more quickly.

You can order anything you want.  The Design Guide is a list of the most popular choices. You could order a Tele with the controls wherever you like but you'd need to chose a Master Builder to do it and go though it with you. 

crunchman

MattFGBI said:

crunchman said:

Teetonetal said:

crunchman said:

Was just looking at that options list.  It doesn't look very "custom".

If I want to order a Tele with a decent arrangement and placement of controls it doesn't look possible.  I want a switch that's not too close to the volume knob, and I'd like the volume knob closer to me.  Not Strat close so I knock it with my little finger, but closer than the standard Tele layout.

It looks like it's whatever they can do without having to manually rout something or reprogram the CNC.

That's because, as I said earlier, fender custom shop really means we do nice paintwork.

I've got a copy of The Dream Factory at home.  From some of the guitars in there they used to do a lot more interesting stuff.  It seems that the bean counters have taken over and decreed that they stick to standard designs so that they can churn out more guitars more quickly.

You can order anything you want.  The Design Guide is a list of the most popular choices. You could order a Tele with the controls wherever you like but you'd need to chose a Master Builder to do it and go though it with you. 

Thanks.  That wasn't too clear from the stuff I looked at.

thebreeze

If anyone is passing GuitaGuitar in Camden there is a 60th Anniversary 1954 heavy relic in there.  I'd be interested to know what people thought of it.  I played it on Friday and thought it was amazing in every way.  There was also a black '60's which wasn't far behind.  To me they were just a world apart from all the other models we tried in there (I went with a friend).

My thoughts go to what BB King said to Billy Gibbons about string size.  "Why make things more difficult for yourself when you don't need to".  I know there's a massive price differential, but if you can stretch to a CS it is worth it (imho).  Everything is made so much easier and so much more enjoyable.

GavRichList

Here's a question. Sort of. Can a good luthier not get a stock guitar pretty close to a CS? - for example, I routinely ask Howard to roll the edges of my boards and frets, I tend to have the necks finish stripped back, a new bone nut cut etc - the guitar then feels immeasurably better than stock. 

Rocker

I have a Fender CS '62 Strat.  And a Tom Anderson.  Both are superb guitars, way too good for my playing standard, but they inspire me whenever I play one or the other.

A good guitar is a good guitar.  Whatever the name on the headstock or how much it cost.  Play it often.

Teetonetal

GavRichList said:

Here's a question. Sort of. Can a good luthier not get a stock guitar pretty close to a CS? - for example, I routinely ask Howard to roll the edges of my boards and frets, I tend to have the necks finish stripped back, a new bone nut cut etc - the guitar then feels immeasurably better than stock. 

Yes. Easily. Have a wisdom.

Rocker said:

I have a Fender CS '62 Strat.  And a Tom Anderson.  Both are superb guitars, way too good for my playing standard, but they inspire me whenever I play one or the other.

A good guitar is a good guitar.  Whatever the name on the headstock or how much it cost.  Play it often.

I suppose this my beef with the CS.  Out of all my guitars it's the cheaper teles that have been setup as Gav''s post suggests that are the ones I reach for.  My mb cost near 4 times as much as these two added together and has more or less become wall art. Only played when I need a big by going on.

Out of the box the rolled edges of the mb was nice. But so little effort gets any decent guitar there. Especially something as simple as a telecaster.

crunchman

GavRichList said:

Here's a question. Sort of. Can a good luthier not get a stock guitar pretty close to a CS? - for example, I routinely ask Howard to roll the edges of my boards and frets, I tend to have the necks finish stripped back, a new bone nut cut etc - the guitar then feels immeasurably better than stock. 

How much does that cost to do?  Looking at the Feline website a new nut is from £50 - and that's probably some kind of plastic.  Add in the other work you are looking at a £150 bill.

It depends what stock guitar you are looking at, but if you take an AV reissue at £1500 and add £150 worth of work to it, with the better resale value of the CS guitar you won't be a lot better off with the AVRI.

dindude

crunchman said:

GavRichList said:

Here's a question. Sort of. Can a good luthier not get a stock guitar pretty close to a CS? - for example, I routinely ask Howard to roll the edges of my boards and frets, I tend to have the necks finish stripped back, a new bone nut cut etc - the guitar then feels immeasurably better than stock. 

How much does that cost to do?  Looking at the Feline website a new nut is from £50 - and that's probably some kind of plastic.  Add in the other work you are looking at a £150 bill.

It depends what stock guitar you are looking at, but if you take an AV reissue at £1500 and add £150 worth of work to it, with the better resale value of the CS guitar you won't be a lot better off with the AVRI.

I think this is true when CS guitars were around the £2k mark, but they're now 2.5k + all day long with the just the odd "bargain" below this.

My beef with CS Fenders, as I do think they are a notch above, is that I want to see more non-relic' finishes. I don't want a relic, even a light / journeyman, and the NOS are usually cheaper by a good few hundred quid, but looking last night the NOS choice in the usual places was quite limited.

Market demands I guess.

Teetonetal

crunchman said:

GavRichList said:

Here's a question. Sort of. Can a good luthier not get a stock guitar pretty close to a CS? - for example, I routinely ask Howard to roll the edges of my boards and frets, I tend to have the necks finish stripped back, a new bone nut cut etc - the guitar then feels immeasurably better than stock. 

How much does that cost to do?  Looking at the Feline website a new nut is from £50 - and that's probably some kind of plastic.  Add in the other work you are looking at a £150 bill.

It depends what stock guitar you are looking at, but if you take an AV reissue at £1500 and add £150 worth of work to it, with the better resale value of the CS guitar you won't be a lot better off with the AVRI.

Then following that logic, you best bet is to find an AVRI that's already been done...

However, 

Looking a Coda, a custom shop Jazzmaster is 2700+ a MB is 4600+
AN AVRI is what 1800 new, so with £200 extra work, you are still 700 in pocket. 
Get one of the MIM Nitro models for 900, that has nitro and AVRI pups and you are a long way off the CS price.

I reckon that the Nitro MIM after £200 of work will be a hell of a guitar.

crunchman

dindude said:

crunchman said:

GavRichList said:

Here's a question. Sort of. Can a good luthier not get a stock guitar pretty close to a CS? - for example, I routinely ask Howard to roll the edges of my boards and frets, I tend to have the necks finish stripped back, a new bone nut cut etc - the guitar then feels immeasurably better than stock. 

How much does that cost to do?  Looking at the Feline website a new nut is from £50 - and that's probably some kind of plastic.  Add in the other work you are looking at a £150 bill.

It depends what stock guitar you are looking at, but if you take an AV reissue at £1500 and add £150 worth of work to it, with the better resale value of the CS guitar you won't be a lot better off with the AVRI.

I think this is true when CS guitars were around the £2k mark, but they're now 2.5k + all day long with the just the odd "bargain" below this.

My beef with CS Fenders, as I do think they are a notch above, is that I want to see more non-relic' finishes. I don't want a relic, even a light / journeyman, and the NOS are usually cheaper by a good few hundred quid, but looking last night the NOS choice in the usual places was quite limited.

Market demands I guess.

You can still get them under £2.5k.  Coda has some CS Strats starting at £2199.  Peach have some NOS finish guitars at £2360.  Andertons have a bunch of CS guitars listed at £2353.  The Andertons stock all seem to be relics though.  I'm with you in that I'd like more NOS or closet classic options.

GavRichList

crunchman said:

GavRichList said:

Here's a question. Sort of. Can a good luthier not get a stock guitar pretty close to a CS? - for example, I routinely ask Howard to roll the edges of my boards and frets, I tend to have the necks finish stripped back, a new bone nut cut etc - the guitar then feels immeasurably better than stock. 

How much does that cost to do?  Looking at the Feline website a new nut is from £50 - and that's probably some kind of plastic.  Add in the other work you are looking at a £150 bill.

It depends what stock guitar you are looking at, but if you take an AV reissue at £1500 and add £150 worth of work to it, with the better resale value of the CS guitar you won't be a lot better off with the AVRI.

A lot less than £150. A LOT less. 

impmann

Frankly if someone asked me for £50 for installing a plastic nut, I'd laugh at them...

Seriously - the last refret (with a new bone nut) which was a pain in the arse for the luthier involved due to the artwork on the fretboard - and certain other well-reknowned luthiers refused to quote for as it was too tricky - cost me less than £200 all up and its a stellar job.

I'm not attacking other people's prices - we all gotta eat - and I guess away from the inflated ground rents of the South East, the rest of us get a better deal. However, having a fingerboard rolled (which frankly isn't tricky - Wez V has even done instructions on doing so), a fret dress (which should automatically include fret ends - if not, its half a job) and even a new, bone nut installed is a worthwhile investment for most guitars - and will lift *playability* right up there to be amoung the best, assuming your tech/luthier isn't a clown. Will it "transform" an AVRI into a CS quality guitar? Erm... maybe, in terms of playability but if the basic guitar is a turd no amount of polish (or rolling in glitter) will change it.

Having spent a wonderful day trying out most of Doug's CS Fenders (and ending up buying a PRS 305...), its not just about playability - thats a factor. Some resonated more, some sounded different and none of them were 'bad' - they all had their own character. Some suited me better than others and it was fractional - but tbh, once you get past a certain point all differences are. Only you can decide if those differences warrant the price of a CS guitar.

crunchman

In London and the South East work on guitars does cost a lot.  I looked at prices of refrets a while back.  I could have saved at least £80 by going to my parents and getting the work done at Mansons compared with reputable shops local to me.

Replacing a nut will involve some kind of a set up afterwards for the new nut as well.  Set ups at most decent places in London start from £50.  If you are getting that plus a new nut installed and cut for less than £50 that strikes me as a very good deal.

GavRichList

crunchman said:

In London and the South East work on guitars does cost a lot.  I looked at prices of refrets a while back.  I could have saved at least £80 by going to my parents and getting the work done at Mansons compared with reputable shops local to me.

Replacing a nut will involve some kind of a set up afterwards for the new nut as well.  Set ups at most decent places in London start from £50.  If you are getting that plus a new nut installed and cut for less than £50 that strikes me as a very good deal.

I am. Who'd have thought living in Leicester would have a perk. 

impmann

crunchman said:

In London and the South East work on guitars does cost a lot.  I looked at prices of refrets a while back.  I could have saved at least £80 by going to my parents and getting the work done at Mansons compared with reputable shops local to me.

Replacing a nut will involve some kind of a set up afterwards for the new nut as well.  Set ups at most decent places in London start from £50.  If you are getting that plus a new nut installed and

Welcome to the world away from the South East... :-)

guitars4you

ref above comments from @dindude and @crunchman regarding NOS v Relic finish - I agree it is a Marmite issue and you very rarely change any ones opinion on this - I have found a few anti relic converts, once they have played them side by side - Yet you can't argue with the sales figures - It is well over 80% aged finish to NOS - Apart from  a few sales of a 56 NOS in Fiesta Red to the Hank fans, nearly every time I buy NOS finishes they are hard to sell and often end up in a sale bin - I get some from time to time but no one has the same selection of NOS to aged - Yet we do custom order a few for various customers from time to time

My 10 penneth for those who are anti relic and think they are somehow 'fake' - I have a thought about a new shiny NOS finish on what is after all a vintage replica of a guitar that is over 50 years old - I agree that all modern guitars should have a shiny finish - Yet who has a 50 year old original Fender with a finish that is still 'AS NEW 100% THE SAME AS A NOS' - they natural fade, mellow and oxidize and as such acquire some aged patina - granted not Rory relic'd, but they will have some very light fading - so maybe NOS is slightly fake as well - just my 10 penneth

Plus point on an aged finish is that I've never heard anyone saying I've got a ding, what do I do about it - so no need to get upset about that first nick that pee's you off

crunchman

@guitars4you I get what you are saying, but when I bought the Heavy Relic Tele, there wasn't a similar NOS or closet classic to compare to.  If I'd tried them side by side I might have still bought the relic but I didn't have the option.  How much of the extra sales that the relics get is because there is no other option to try?

Personally I could live with subtle relicing but the one I had was over the top.  There was heavy fake fingerboard wear on pretty much every string on every fret.  Real playing patterns don't look like that.  I also didn't like the fact that all of the finish had been sanded off the neck.  Also, they need to be careful on relicing the tuners.  The tuners on that were stiffer than any other guitar I've ever owned.  I'd rather have functionality rather than gumming them up to make them look old.

dindude

guitars4you said:

ref above comments from @dindude and @crunchman regarding NOS v Relic finish - I agree it is a Marmite issue and you very rarely change any ones opinion on this - I have found a few anti relic converts, once they have played them side by side - Yet you can't argue with the sales figures - It is well over 80% aged finish to NOS - Apart from  a few sales of a 56 NOS in Fiesta Red to the Hank fans, nearly every time I buy NOS finishes they are hard to sell and often end up in a sale bin - I get some from time to time but no one has the same selection of NOS to aged - Yet we do custom order a few for various customers from time to time

My 10 penneth for those who are anti relic and think they are somehow 'fake' - I have a thought about a new shiny NOS finish on what is after all a vintage replica of a guitar that is over 50 years old - I agree that all modern guitars should have a shiny finish - Yet who has a 50 year old original Fender with a finish that is still 'AS NEW 100% THE SAME AS A NOS' - they natural fade, mellow and oxidize and as such acquire some aged patina - granted not Rory relic'd, but they will have some very light fading - so maybe NOS is slightly fake as well - just my 10 penneth

Plus point on an aged finish is that I've never heard anyone saying I've got a ding, what do I do about it - so no need to get upset about that first nick that pee's you off

Fair points. Not wishing to turn this thread into another relic debate but here's my take.

I have a AVRI '65 Jaguar. One of the things I love about it is the accuracy to what the real thing would have been like when new. Opening the case and you can imagine opening the case in 1965 with all the excitement of a new instrument, it even smells great. Then only 18 months down the line it has already collected some small dings etc, but they are my dings.

When it comes to a CS Strat, personally I just want to go and buy the best Strat possible, not to fool people or myself into thinking I've got an aged guitar. I do have a CS Custom Deluxe which fulfills the non-relic brief but am starting to think of a Strat with a slightly different spec.

Relics just don't draw me in, I walk straight past heavy relics, not interested in the slightest. When I was in Coda a few weeks back I was most drawn to the cheapest CS Strat in the whole place, a Daphne blue NOS, it was a belting guitar. Just wish there was more choice.

Maybe I should try a journeyman finish - that gold one on your site Mark looks rather lovely!

guitars4you

dindude said:

Maybe I should try a journeyman finish - that gold one on your site Mark looks rather lovely!

Journeyman are becoming the biggest selling finish - played yet cared for but still a 50 year old vibe - some still have a more worn neck, some just satin-ish - can be spec'd with either